BB30 breaking my heart

Vincenzo Nibbly

Having stripped, lubed & greased everything in the bb for the umpteenth time, with the noise coming back after around 2 weeks each time, I decided it was time to give up and just replace the bearings. Got the job done last Sunday and hopped on the bike to test it, and the goddamned cr-crick-crackety-crack noise was still there. I'm at my wits end. What else is there to do? Replace the crankset? Could it be something else - chainrings?

gaffmaster

Could it be your pedals? My pedals sometimes creak and clack when I'm putting an effort in. Well actually, it's the shoes/pedals contact that's making the noise (they're spds). Worth checking as it could be an easy fix.

onthefringe

Vincenzo Nibbly wrote: »

Having stripped, lubed & greased everything in the bb for the umpteenth time, with the noise coming back after around 2 weeks each time, I decided it was time to give up and just replace the bearings. Got the job done last Sunday and hopped on the bike to test it, and the goddamned cr-crick-crackety-crack noise was still there. I'm at my wits end. What else is there to do? Replace the crankset? Could it be something else - chainrings?

If its an actual bb 30 crank your using you could go this way -
Get a standard 24mm shaft crank ( shimano hollow tech / fsa) and this adaptor system
http://www.praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/
Usually rules out creaks
There are other makes too
Wheels , kcnc, bear...
They all work too!

Vincenzo Nibbly

gaffmaster wrote: »

Could it be your pedals? My pedals sometimes creak and clack when I'm putting an effort in. Well actually, it's the shoes/pedals contact that's making the noise (they're spds). Worth checking as it could be an easy fix.

I considered the pedals but then the noise did go away briefly after the first few services of the bb parts. I'm not ruling anything out at this point though, so thanks!

fat bloke

I'm getting that all the time in my trek but only out of the saddle and I'm convinced now it's the fork cos if I mimic the out of the saddle side to side without pedaling (hard to do!) it sill creaks. Also, when I'm in the saddle and pushing, there's no creak.

In the past I've also traced it to the handlebars - again that leaning left to right weight transfer when out of the saddle.

Can even be your saddle itself if it happens sitting down.

Point being I suppose is that dratted noise can be coming from anywhere and can be an absolute hoor to pinpoint, but then you know that already

Cee-Jay-Cee

I had a creak with my BB30 that turned out to be loose chainrings, it was perfect after that however I have since upgraded to 6800 and used the FSA press-in threaded sleeve adaptor.

Keep_Her_Lit

My commuter bike uses BB30 and it is a fussy bottom bracket design indeed, though luckily I haven't had any persistent problems with mine. Did you do the bearing replacement yourself or was it done by a shop?

Correct preloading of the bearings is important during installation and you could get creaking if that hasn't been done properly.

Also, there are differing views on whether grease or Loctite (or similar bearing retention compound) should be used during installation. My BB30 is FSA and their recommended procedure uses grease. However, I've seen recommendations to use Loctite in cases of persistent creaking.

That's slightly more hassle than using grease because you'll have to thoroughly degrease the BB shell before applying the compound and then make sure that the bearings aren't contaminated during installation. Also, the bearings will be more difficult to remove when they need to be replaced.

A good bike shop should have tools for checking the frame tolerance. The limits are quite tight and the BB shell can be damaged quite easily if bearings are not driven in true to the frame.

Vincenzo Nibbly

onthefringe wrote: »

If its an actual bb 30 crank your using you could go this way -
Get a standard 24mm shaft crank ( shimano hollow tech / fsa) and this adaptor system

Usually rules out creaks
There are other makes too
Wheels , kcnc, bear...
They all work too!

Thanks - I may eventually wind up going that way. I'll exhaust all other avenues first, hopefully there is a cheaper way to keep it quiet!

butterworth

I've also had persistent creaking that turned out to be chainring bolts not tightened properly. It took over a month, and a new BB, to figure that one out...

Vincenzo Nibbly

butterworth wrote: »

I've also had persistent creaking that turned out to be chainring bolts not tightened properly. It took over a month, and a new BB, to figure that one out...

Thanks butterworth - yourself & Cee-Jay-Cee both suggested this problem, so this looks like the next thing to try, before ruling out pedals.

@Keep_Her_Lit - Thanks I didn't know anything about pre-loading the bearings. I just bought the bearings and a bearing cup press (w w w.icetoolz.com/ec99/ushop10074/GoodsDescr.asp?category_id=60&parent_id=50&prod_id=11R3) and went for it. Must read up on that and the loctite method.

If all of that doesn't work, I'll have to just bite the bullet and convert the shell. The bike is a CAAD10 and is only a year old. I love it apart from this problem, but it really is a major issue.. Hopefully I can find a fix for it. Cheers for all the suggestions!

Keep_Her_Lit

Vincenzo Nibbly wrote: »

@Keep_Her_Lit - Thanks I didn't know anything about pre-loading the bearings. I just bought the bearings and a bearing cup press (w w w.icetoolz.com/ec99/ushop10074/GoodsDescr.asp?category_id=60&parent_id=50&prod_id=11R3) and went for it. Must read up on that and the loctite method.

If your BB30 assembly includes a wave washer like this one ...



... then preloading is simply achieved by tightening the retaining bolt on the non-drive side crank arm to a torque of 45-55 Nm. That compresses the wave washer by the correct amount, so that the appropriate lateral force is applied to the bearings.

Alternatively, some BB30 cranks include an integrated preload nut which needs to be screwed up against the bearings with a torque of 7-9 Nm. Forward to 9:00 in the following video:

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/support/technical-videos/#road-how-to-video
(Scroll to Installation & Maintenance of FSA BB30 Road Crankset)

It might also be worth taking a look on the website of your crank manufacturer to see if they offer installation instructions specific to their product.

The advice from Park Tool is to use Loctite RC680 if the bearings are a loose fit in the shell:
http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/bb30-bearing-system-installation-and-removal

Here's an another useful and detailed description of the overhaul procedure (Loctite 609 is recommended in this case):
http://www.volagi.com/how-to-bb30-overhaulbearing-replacement/

Hope you get it sorted. I agree that once it starts to creak it drives you nuts!

Muckers

This may not be a bottom bracket issue at all. I have a similar issue for months and have done everything possible to sort it including a new b/b and headset and no luck. I've given up on it now and once I stay in the saddle it's fine. It makes the climbs more interesting though

Vincenzo Nibbly

@Keep_Her_Lit - It's the wavy washer type alright (FSA Gossamer crankset). I might look at adding a couple of those little plastic spacers to make sure there is enough load on the washer.

@Muckers - Strangely the only time mine DOESN'T make noise is if I'm going all-out during short intervals. Otherwise, in the saddle or out of the saddle, it's creaking and cracking away.

Brian?

Vincenzo Nibbly wrote: »

@Keep_Her_Lit - It's the wavy washer type alright (FSA Gossamer crankset). I might look at adding a couple of those little plastic spacers to make sure there is enough load on the washer.

@Muckers - Strangely the only time mine DOESN'T make noise is if I'm going all-out during short intervals. Otherwise, in the saddle or out of the saddle, it's creaking and cracking away.

Sounds like the problem may be your saddle

Vincenzo Nibbly

Brian? wrote: »

Sounds like the problem may be your saddle

I should have said - Efforts in or out of the saddle and it's quiet. Steady in or out of the saddle and it's noisy. I can't figure it out. Gonna try the chainrings. Might as well clean and re-seat the saddle too! :-)

route66

Vincenzo Nibbly wrote: »

Having stripped, lubed & greased everything in the bb for the umpteenth time, with the noise coming back after around 2 weeks each time, I decided it was time to give up and just replace the bearings. Got the job done last Sunday and hopped on the bike to test it, and the goddamned cr-crick-crackety-crack noise was still there. I'm at my wits end. What else is there to do? Replace the crankset? Could it be something else - chainrings?

What type of bike? Have you internal cabling? I've heard that this can cause similar - impossible to diagnose - noises and the cure is some packing in the downtube to quell the noise. You will need to remove the headset first for access.

If the frame is carbon, sound can resonate and travel around the place which makes things hard to pin down - you've noticed this already!

My Felt Z6 has had a similar-ish noise for about a year and I haven't diagnosed it yet. I've stripped the headset, greased everything up and even changed the bearings; No joy. I changed the bottom bracket. No joy. I've changed the pedals; no joy. I've changed the saddle, applied carbon paste to the seat tube, lubricated the seat clamp; no joy. I've lubricated the point where the internal cables enter the frame; no joy. I've removed the handlebars, put them back; no joy. Replaced the chain; no joy. I greased the dropouts and that worked! Only joking; the noise is still there.

Sometimes when I "do stuff", the noise will go away but it always comes back. The bike rarely sees the rain, but once when I was out in the wet, the noise went away for about a week before returning. I suppose this is good in that the water acted as a kind of lubricant for a while, suggesting a) I just need to find this place and b) the frame - probably - doesn't have a large, invisible crack somewhere.

On my todo:
Apply packing to the downtube
Check Chainrings
Lubricate cleats
Buy a new bike

jntsnk

Grease the front skewer it could be very dry.
Take it out and cover the part that is in contact with the fork and runs through the wheel. It a long shot but it has worked for one creaking incident I had.
A moving bb bearing cups could be it as well

DS2013

I am having a similar problem although it does not sound quite as bad. I regreased the pedals at the weekend but still getting a cracking/clicking noise when I push down on the left crankI am going to check the saddle next before looking at the bottom bracket. What do I need to check in the saddle? Thanks

Koobcam

I had a squeaking issue on mine a while back, bike only a couple of weeks old at the time and it turned out to be the stem. , maybe worth re-torquing the stem &/or handlebar bolts.

friso59

butterworth wrote: »

I've also had persistent creaking that turned out to be chainring bolts not tightened properly. It took over a month, and a new BB, to figure that one out...

Same as this although I hadn't greased mine when I cleaned it. I took them out, greased them and no creak any more.

Vincenzo Nibbly

I had some time to work on the bike this weekend and thought I would update in case anyone is having similar issues:

1 - Removed, thoroughly cleaned and re-installed the chainrings with a dab o grease around each chainring bolt. Torqued up the bolts good and tight.
Result - No change

2 - Removed and greased the skewers.
Result - No change

3 - Removed the seatpost entirely and rode the bike around the garden to check if it could have been the saddle creaking.
Result - No change

4 - Removed everything from the bb shell, cleaned bb shell thoroughly, replaced the circlips this time, which I had skipped on the previous installation as the existing ones appeared to be fine. Greased the bejesus out of everything. Re-seated the bearings taking care that everything was squared.
Result - No change

I'm positive that the noise is coming from the bb. Even if I lean on either pedal with my hand, I can hear the usual crick-crack noise coming from the bb, so I don't think it's the pedals either - it's unlikely that they would both make the exact same noise independently. Stem issue ruled out by that check also as no contact with stem, just frame and pedals.

With these issues ruled out, I'll have to bite the bullet and get a bb30 to Shimano Hollowtech II adapter and a 105 crankset. If that doesn't fix it, it's going in the flipping bin.

jntsnk

Borrow a set of wheels and pedals from someone to rule everything out just before you splash on something new

custom_build

Some manufacturers are now recommending glueing the press fit cups together with a specific loctite. This is to stop the cups spinning inside each other which causes many of these bb creaks.
Another option and one which I have been looking at is going down the bbinfinite route.

Vincenzo Nibbly

I got the Praxis bb30 --> hollowtech II adapter and a new 105 crankset delivered. Fitted them last night and took it for a spin. It's better (I think) but there is still a really loud creaking and cracking...

I happened to get some new tools delivered to do a cassette change on another rear wheel for the turbo, so I decided to service the mavic freehub and see if it could be that. Went to remove the cassette lockring, and it wasn't as tight as it should have been. Not loose exactly, but not tight enough to keep the cassette from rubbing very slightly against the freehub and making that cricking cracking sound that has been driving me nuts for months. I went on and cleaned and greased the freehub and put it all back together. Hurray for the sounds of f^&kin silence. It was definitely the cassette lockring.

The part I can't figure out is how the noise was still there when I tested it with another set of wheels. Could have been a combination of bb and cassette noises I suppose, or else the other cassette was also loose.

An expensive lesson, but I got it there in the end. At least I don't have to worry about the typical bb30 issues cropping up. Man I love learning all this bike stuff!

Seweryn

Vincenzo Nibbly wrote: »

I got the Praxis bb30 --> hollowtech II adapter and a new 105 crankset delivered. Fitted them last night and took it for a spin. It's better (I think) but there is still a really loud creaking and cracking...

...It was definitely the cassette lockring.

Great story. And as always with issues of this nature a proper diagnose is the key.

Regarding the BB30 bearings, which bearings do you use?

Vincenzo Nibbly

@Seweryn - Yep I'd nearly give some thought to getting a stethoscope to diagnose noise issues!

The set of bearings that the bike arrived with were generic non-branded '6806 2RS' bearings, loctited into the bb. I replaced them a couple of months ago with these SRAM bearings - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/sram-bb30-bb-assembly-kit-alloy-bearings/rp-prod40333

Seweryn

Vincenzo Nibbly wrote: »

The set of bearings that the bike arrived with were generic non-branded '6806 2RS' bearings, loctited into the bb. I replaced them a couple of months ago with these SRAM bearings - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/sram-bb30-bb-assembly-kit-alloy-bearings/rp-prod40333

These are surprisingly expensive bearings of low quality. They are branded as Sram, but are cheap, low quality bearings before Sram put their label on them. I stopped buying these a couple of years ago, as I was going through them like a set every couple of months. Next time get yourself a proper set of quality bearings from an engineering workshop. They may not cost you any more money but will last much longer.

Vincenzo Nibbly

Seweryn wrote: »

These are surprisingly expensive bearings of low quality. They are branded as Sram, but are cheap, low quality bearings before Sram put their label on them. I stopped buying these a couple of years ago, as I was going through them like a set every couple of months. Next time get yourself a proper set of quality bearings from an engineering workshop. They may not cost you any more money but will last much longer.

Sounds like good advice. If I had stuck with BB30 I was planning to give these a go next time - http://www.wychbearings.co.uk/CH-61806-2RZ-CERAMIC-HYBRID.html

Seweryn

Vincenzo Nibbly wrote: »

Sounds like good advice. If I had stuck with BB30 I was planning to give these a go next time - http://www.wychbearings.co.uk/CH-61806-2RZ-CERAMIC-HYBRID.html

Hmm... I would not go there Vincenzo. Steel bearings are all you need, and the best of them are made by NTN with their LLU type seals.

Vincenzo Nibbly

Cheers for the advice Seweryn, I'll give the NTNs a try the next time

onthefringe

Vincenzo Nibbly wrote: »

I got the Praxis bb30 --> hollowtech II adapter and a new 105 crankset delivered. Fitted them last night and took it for a spin. It's better (I think) but there is still a really loud creaking and cracking...

I happened to get some new tools delivered to do a cassette change on another rear wheel for the turbo, so I decided to service the mavic freehub and see if it could be that. Went to remove the cassette lockring, and it wasn't as tight as it should have been. Not loose exactly, but not tight enough to keep the cassette from rubbing very slightly against the freehub and making that cricking cracking sound that has been driving me nuts for months. I went on and cleaned and greased the freehub and put it all back together. Hurray for the sounds of f^&kin silence. It was definitely the cassette lockring.

The part I can't figure out is how the noise was still there when I tested it with another set of wheels. Could have been a combination of bb and cassette noises I suppose, or else the other cassette was also loose.

An expensive lesson, but I got it there in the end. At least I don't have to worry about the typical bb30 issues cropping up. Man I love learning all this bike stuff!

for what its worth i think your better off with the praxis anyway...

RunDMC

Hey. Nibbly, where did you get the Praxis adapter? I was looking at getting one myself.

D

Vincenzo Nibbly

RunDMC wrote: »

Hey. Nibbly, where did you get the Praxis adapter? I was looking at getting one myself.

D

Hey. This was the one I picked up - http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/p/13032/

doozerie

fat bloke wrote: »

I'm getting that all the time in my trek but only out of the saddle and I'm convinced now it's the fork cos if I mimic the out of the saddle side to side without pedaling (hard to do!) it sill creaks. Also, when I'm in the saddle and pushing, there's no creak.

In the past I've also traced it to the handlebars - again that leaning left to right weight transfer when out of the saddle.

Can even be your saddle itself if it happens sitting down.

Point being I suppose is that dratted noise can be coming from anywhere and can be an absolute hoor to pinpoint, but then you know that already

I had the very same symptoms on at least two bikes, noise occurring when out of the saddle only. What worked for me was to lightly lube (I used GT85) the front dropouts, both faces on each.

So the creak in my case was coming from movement between the mating faces of skewer, hub locknut, and dropouts, the lube eliminated the noise. That noise wrecked my head for ages, the new silence was bliss.

NeedMoreGears

Had one a while back. The bike was about 18 months/10,000km old. Sounded like a creak from the bottom bracket but seeing as every nosie is reputed to sound like its coming from the bottom bracket, I tried everything else. Regreased and tightened the saddle, seat post, chainring bolts, pedals, cranks, skewers, forks, headset, handlebars, my knees. Turns out the bottom bracket was actually knackered. Is this a first?

Once replaced to quote Doozerie above "bliss".

PJD

Clearly its time for a new bike!

Vincenzo Nibbly

Apologies for the aged thread resurrection but I thought this information may be useful. I got so sick of pulling the BB30 praxis adapter/crank on my CAAD10 apart to regrease that one day I just pulled the seat-post out and sprayed 30 seconds worth of WD40 down the seat-tube. It has been far and away the most effective solution to BB30 noise. For the desperate only! :rolleyes:

thekerrycyclist

How has the adapter worked out for you long term? I've only recently installed one... to alleviate same problem on my CAAD10

benneca1

Could be your wheels you get more lateral force out of saddle. Try a drop of wd 40 or likes where spokes cross. If they dont cross then not it. Had this issue once with my bombproof winter wheels.

Vincenzo Nibbly

thekerrycyclist wrote: »

How has the adapter worked out for you long term? I've only recently installed one... to alleviate same problem on my CAAD10

The Praxis adapter brought a massive improvement for my CAAD10's issues, but it still wasn't totally silent. I think there is a big breadth of severity when it comes to BB30, depending on how out of whack the manufacturing is with design tolerances. I would guess that my particular CAAD10 frame is quite a long way out of the recommended tolerances - I bet the BB30 bore is way too big.

joey100

Has anyone used these to convert their BB30 to take Shimano hollowtech cranks?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wheels-manufacturing-bb30-to-24mm-crank-spindle-shims/

Seem to be a very simple solution but not sure if I would be better off just getting a rotor or praxxis convertor. Benefit of these is I could just do it myself, don't have the tools for the job using the others.

Cee-Jay-Cee

joey100 wrote: »

Has anyone used these to convert their BB30 to take Shimano hollowtech cranks?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wheels-manufacturing-bb30-to-24mm-crank-spindle-shims/

Seem to be a very simple solution but not sure if I would be better off just getting a rotor or praxxis convertor. Benefit of these is I could just do it myself, don't have the tools for the job using the others.

They get very good reviews and because they're made from a malable hard plastic they don't creak or cause problems.

I used the FSA threaded sleeve when changing to HollowTech from BB30. It was fitted 2 years ago and has been 100% silent since.

thekooman

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

They get very good reviews and because they're made from a malable hard plastic they don't creak or cause problems.

I used the FSA threaded sleeve when changing to HollowTech from BB30. It was fitted 2 years ago and has been 100% silent since.

i used these shims on a Ultegra 6700 crankset in a BB30 Orbea and they were great.

sin_26

jntsnk wrote: »

Borrow a set of wheels and pedals from someone to rule everything out just before you splash on something new

How many miles done and in what conditions? Is your bearing using your finger are smooth and internal ring free of any movement? Who did mount these bearings? Ive found that badly mounting (not super vertically) due to tight tight tolerances can decrease their life quite a bit.

sin_26

Buahaha.... That was good one necro from me xD.

nilhg

I'm using one of these,

http://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/bb30-outboard/bb30-outboard-bottom-brackets/bb30-to-outboard-bottom-bracket-for-24mm-cranks-shimano-w-angular-contact-bearings-red.html

in my Felt, it has a fully carbon Bb housing that the praxis won't fit into, apart from needing to put some grease on the seals I've had no issues or noises since I put it in at the start of this year, probably 6-7k done on it in all weathers, the nice thing is that when the time comes you can just replace the bearings and leave the housing in situ.

http://wheelsmfg.com/products/bearings/bottom-bracket-sealed-bearings/enduro-24-x-37-angular-contact-2rs-sealed-bearing.html

On the plastic shims, I've seen good reports, superfeltdave used to recommend them on various Felt forums but if you were having issues with the standard BB30 bearings, they won't sort that.

not sane

Seen to many creaking BB30 BB's so when I bought a new frame with a BB30 I bought a FSA treaded adapter. Never had a problem all year.