Son won't contribute anything

LegacyUser

My 20yr old son started work 6 months ago and I asked him to pay €160pm for his keep. Every month since then he has moaned about it and said he doesn't have it. He comes out with €1,000pm. This month because he didnt give any money towards his keep I didn't buy food for him. He was still getting a cooked dinner. when he came home from work the other day he went mad, screaming and shouting because there was no food or drinks in house. His dinner that I just made was still in the pan so I threw it in the bin. He then got the pan and smashed it, bending it and splashing the tiles with sauce. He won't clean it up because he thinks I was in the wrong for throwing his dinner out. He also damaged the iron a few weeks ago because I wouldn't give him lift when he got up late for work. A part of the front door broke off because he banged it so hard when I wouldn't give him what he wanted. Any advice on how to deal with him? I'm on my own and it's hard dealing with a grown man who acts like a child.

Penny Tration

Tell him either he gets anger management help and contributes 200 per month, or he leaves.

If he refuses, change the locks.

He's a grown man and he's being aggressive and abusive and refusing to pay towards his keep.

If he needs his money that much, change the locks and let him see how far his money gets him in the real world.

Into The Blue

Think you're enabling him tbh.. When he broke the iron and door a couple of weeks ago, I'd have told him next time is the last time.

Into The Blue

Also, you've put 20 years into him, no more making him dinners.. That's time you could be out meeting mates or dating.

gerrybbadd

The sense of entitlement here is all wrong.

When I was just turned 15, I started working, and volunteered money to the house. I didn't need to be asked.

Your son needs a wakeup call I'm afraid. A spell out of the house might open his eyes.

zeffabelli

Problem is you've set a precedent and now you have to change it. He's gotten used to you being staff, no one will let go of that without a fight if they don't have to.

His expectations will go through an adjustment period.

You may have to get very tough. But first talk to him and tell him that you will no longer infantilise him because it's making him weak, that every time you do something for him he gets a little more dependant and a little weaker. Sometimes a mummy's love is like cryptonite but they don't know any better and you are not one of those mothers.

Then tell him if he breaks anymore of your property he will find the locks changed one day.

LegacyUser

Op has he always been like this? His anger and way of dealing with things are OTT. He has broken the door, the iron, and now the frying pan. How long will it be or what will the next event be, that he turns around and turns the violence on you?
You are not asking for much and if he is earning money and living at home he shouldn't expect to live rent free with meals included. I think some tough love is needed, he need to move out, and see what it's like living in the real world. At 20 years of age he should be well able to cook some meals instead of relying on you.

via4

From my own experience when I worked I didn't give my parents monthly money each month but I then bought my own weekly food made my own meals and I always did my own washing n would clean the house for them. It gave me a better idea how to budget my money because I never asked them for money. The reason I didn't give money is because my parents were not depending on my wage to help pay a bill or anything but in your case your on your own which I think your son would want to help you out. He's not living in the real world. When he calms down show him on paper the household budget and point out exactly were you calculated you will need 160 euro from him which am sure you lost that in child benefit when he turned 18. Making him meals at 20 is enabling him I'm afraid. I have a friend whose sons are 18 and 27 and she still makes their dinner she is treated like a servant in her own home n they act as childish. I also know of kids your sons age who help pay there mums mortgage with their wages. I feel sorry for you he seems like a brat. I'm on my own with my daughter and when she gets a job she will either have to give me a bit of money or else buy her own food as I know I will still be struggling with rent and stuff in the future. Best of luck and try n approach him that he knows you are not attacking him just stay calm and tell him if he was living on his own jus 1,000 would be going mostly on rent so he needs to make a decision.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all your advice. I made his dinner for him because it's just as easy to make a dinner for 2 than it is to make a dinner for 1 and then you only have oven/cooker on once and don't use twice as many pans. And it was nice to sit down and have a meal with someone. But most of the time he eats in his room, leaves the plates there til there's no clean plates and then goes mad because there's no clean plates!!

Goes mad because there are no clean plates?
He knows well enough where the sink is!

To be honest I think it's time to tell him he's making his own dinners half the time to share the cooking, doing his own laundry (I'm assuming here based on the clean plates and general maid expectations), sharing the tidying up and contributing to the cost of the household - or he's no longer a part of the household.

zeffabelli

20yearsold wrote: »

Thanks for all your advice. I made his dinner for him because it's just as easy to make a dinner for 2 than it is to make a dinner for 1 and then you only have oven/cooker on once and don't use twice as many pans. And it was nice to sit down and have a meal with someone. But most of the time he eats in his room, leaves the plates there til there's no clean plates and then goes mad because there's no clean plates!!

Yeah it's interesting because sociologically adolescence is now extended into mid 20s.

Generationally things have changed likely due to the extension of education and third level being more common.

Adult responsibilities are delayed now.

He's still not being ok for a 16 or 17 year old though.

Niaveee

Time to get tough op, stick to what your saying, don't back down. He will soon realise

LegacyUser

Buy the local paper and circle house shares in the Accommodation section. Sit down and try have an adult conversation. Show him how reasonable you're trying to be, versus how much he'd have to pay if he moved out.
I think €190 is nothing towards his food and board.

He's going to have to change his behaviour, eating in his room is anti social and his carry on about dinner and plates is rude and childish.
Ask him whether his boss or colleagues would tolerate such tantrums.

AndyBoBandy

Maybe a scare/shock tactic is what's required?

Fill a suitcase with his clothes and put it outside the front door, and when he comes home enquiring as to why, tell him he's out on his own as you are not putting up with his behaviour anymore.

This will hopefully give him the fright of his life.

Invite him in to talk, and explain all the reasons you don't want him there anymore, and when he pleads that he will change his ways, tell him it's too late, the situation has reached the point of no return. You will allow him to stay as a guest that evening, but you expect him to be gone the following morning.

Hopefully he'll reflect on his behaviour and change his tune by the morning.
But stay firm with him, and make him aware that he has no more lives left, if he acts out again, he's out and you'll have a paying lodger in his room in no time.

Bonus points if you actually advertise his room as available, and have a few viewings (while he's there for triple points).
If he won't pay his way, there are plenty of others who are willing to pay.

irishgirl19

160? He is getting off lightly for that.
If he refuses to pay ,kick him out and see how long it takes him to cop onto how easy he's has it

Carlos Orange

irishgirl19 wrote: »

160? He is getting off lightly for that.

Seems like an understatement since that is what I paid for a room around when this kid was born. In pounds.

Diamond Doll

Get him in a calm mood (no point in discussing these things when he's aggressive to start with.)

Draw up a contract for both of you to sign. Make it on your terms (as it's your house) - include his contribution towards rent and bills, and the usual terms of a rent-a-room contract, but also include personal terms such as how it's reasonable to treat each other in the household, and who's responsible for what. The contract should be personal to your family and he should have some input into it too.

Make it clear that you're willing to rent the room to him at a reduced rate (as he's family). And let him know that ideally you'd like him to continue living there - if you do. But also make it clear that his current behaviour is completely unacceptable, and that at his age he has no automatic right to a room in your house at all. Make it clear that you would like to come to an arrangement as two grown adults. The contract should be as detailed as possible, and should absolutely include arrangements about household chores and cooking etc. This is somewhere where negotiation between the two of you should be involved - you don't seem to have a problem with doing most of the cooking, and that's grand if it works for both of you, so long as he's willing to e.g. do most of the washing up instead, depends really on what works for you both. Just make sure he's pulling his weight, and if in the discussion he makes it clear that he's not willing to pull his weight, increase the rental rate accordingly to reflect your role as basically his cook and cleaner and personal servant. Let him know that you're not going to do those things for him for free now that he's an adult.

If he's not willing to agree to the contract and to the rent that you set, be reasonable, give him 30 days notice. In your position, I wouldn't hesitate to change the locks on the 30 day deadline. I'd also inform the Gardai before you do so - given his past behaviour, it's not unlikely that he'd damage your house/property out of rage when he realises the locks have been changed.

If he does agree to stay on, within the terms of the contract, I think it's entirely reasonable for you to insist on a good large deposit to start with, given his past form. It's very possible that he'll end up damaging more of your property, in which case the deposit should be reduced accordingly each time. (Should this happen, no harm recording it by e-mail, and getting him to agree to the reduction by e-mail if the contract agreement between you is to continue.

I know he's family, but I really believe that in your situation you need to make the arrangement as formal as possible. I think the only way of making him grow up a bit is to give him some little bit of cop on to how the real, adult world operates. If he doesn't like it? Fine, he is absolutely free to leave when he wants to. Good luck to him finding a place that cheap with an in-built maid, though!

The J Stands for Jay

He seems like a very angry person. Smashing the place up if he doesn't get his own way.

genuinely?

I'd have yr local community garda waiting for him the next time he came home, if they would make themselves available.

his behaviour is totally unacceptable and I agree with the poster that it's a small step for him to take his next tantrum out on you.

your word/contract won't be worth a damn to him after getting twenty years his own way and imo a suitcase packed for him or a contract written out won't mean anything as its still between the two of you, and he's shown his contempt for that already.

a third party he can't bully or ignore involved at this stage will serve to drive home that he lives in the house under your sufferance and that you mean business.

if you're wary of getting that third party involved at this stage then I dunno what step short of that is going to jar him out of this but keep you and your property out of the firing line

charlietheminxx

This is absolutely shocking. He is completely disrespectful to you, and what's worse is that you've let it slide. Why would you cook dinners for someone who keeps smashing up your house? You need to take a hard line now, because if he doesn't learn respect for you then he's not going to get very far in life. You're doing neither yourself or him any favours by letting his behaviour continue.

The money part is the tip of the iceberg. His attitude is shocking and living your life in fear of your son is no way to live.

LegacyUser

I asked him tonight to clean up mess he made the other day and to let me know what he was going to contribute to house or when he'll be moving out cos it's one or the other. He sent text saying he's moving out after Christmas and I'll never see him again and he feels nothing for me anymore, which I've known for while that's how he feels so I know he's not just saying it in the heat of the moment. We haven't been getting on the last year so don't know where we can go from here. It's hard to reason with someone who doesn't see that he's to blame at all, it's entirely my fault. He blames me for damaging the pan because he says I threw out his food but doesn't say anything about all his shouting at me because there was no food in house (coz he didn't give any money towards it). I thought things got easier when they stopped being teenagers but he's gotten worse and it's not going to get better anytime soon.

PinkLemonade

Do not key him stay until Christmas unless he pays rent, he's trying to manipulate you, don't let him get away with it

colm_mcm

Stand your ground OP. He's obviously manipulating you by saying he'll go and never contact you again.
If that were really true, it'd be better to get rid of him now rather than count down the days till Christmas.
A spell of the real world might sort him out.

Not too many people would have €800 a month left after bills and rent.

Tigger99

Mmm. You are so awful that he's going to wait at least another four months to move out? Absolutely as another poster said he's just trying to make you feel bad. Easier said than done but if someone was disrespecting me like that I'd call his bluff and say, well if it's that bad for you, I'd prefer if you moved out now. Tbh if he does move out now it might give you both the space you need and make him appreciate how good he had it.

20yearsold

20yearsold wrote: »

I asked him tonight to clean up mess he made the other day and to let me know what he was going to contribute to house or when he'll be moving out cos it's one or the other. He sent text saying he's moving out after Christmas and I'll never see him again and he feels nothing for me anymore, which I've known for while that's how he feels so I know he's not just saying it in the heat of the moment. We haven't been getting on the last year so don't know where we can go from here. It's hard to reason with someone who doesn't see that he's to blame at all, it's entirely my fault. He blames me for damaging the pan because he says I threw out his food but doesn't say anything about all his shouting at me because there was no food in house (coz he didn't give any money towards it). I thought things got easier when they stopped being teenagers but he's gotten worse and it's not going to get better anytime soon.

I wouldn't wait till Xmas OP, tell him to go now.
Why should he get a free ride till then?
Tell him he has to pay proper rent plus bills till Xmas if he is staying till then.

If you're scared of his violence you can always get a safety order against him. Just because your his mother doesn't mean you have to put up with his crap forever.

Lone Stone

I paid 100 a week since I was 15, tell him to pack his bags. I would pack his bags ready for when gets home one day tell him if that is how he feels about it, he has to leave. A few weeks slumming it in friends houses would set him straight, I get the sense he'd be to cheap to rent a place. And come back wanting to pay the meager monthly offer you gave him. Then make him pay proper money each week instead the moody git.

bp

I paid 50(punt) a month at the age of 16, I offered they didn't need to ask, while working and again through college.

My parents didn't need the money but in fairness they gave it all back by buying my college books and car insurance so I could go to college.

Tell him no need to wait for Christmas, he has until the end of the month and on September first change the locks and your will! Cheeky git

kylith

I agree with the others. Tell him Christmas is too far away and he has two weeks to get out because you're changing the locks. Then follow through on it. If you don't follow through you're just teaching him that he can treat you however he likes.

Penny Tration

Oh, so his plan is to continue being abusive and not contributing til Christmas?

Not on. You've tried setting ground rules and he's shown you he wont abide by them.

Next time he's at work, pack his things and change the locks.

If he's old enough to act like a hardman, he's old enough to fend for himself.

coolcat63

20yearsold wrote: »

He sent text saying he's moving out after Christmas and I'll never see him again

Sorry, OP, but that could have come straight from the mouth of Kevin the teeanager. You really need to call him out on this. Tell him it's wonderful that he's decided he needs to be independent but, hey, no time like the present - would he like you to help him pack? And obviously it's his choice if he never wants to speak to you again but you hope that once he's fending for himself you would hope to have an adult relationship with him.....

deisemum

He's manipulating you so you need to take charge and give him a week's notice to move out and start being an independent adult. He knows he can manipulate you so time to put an end to that and don't back down.

Lux23

He is definitely trying to guilt trip you so I would play along with his moving out after Christmas story and tell him that you will still need rent from him until then. Also, if it makes sense to make a dinner for two, then maybe keep doing this, but I wouldn't do any of his washing or buy him fizzy drinks/snacks. If you allow him to behave like this towards you, he is going to be just as abusive towards his girlfriends or partner in the future, he will thank you in the long run.

And just a word of warning, if you don't deal with this now, it's likely that you will have to deal with this for many years to come. I have a couple of cousins that behave like this towards their parents and it just gets worse year on year.

And if you need to, pack his bags and let him see how he manages on his own.

Sunflower 27

You've raised an entitled, spoilt brat. He has to move out. The violence aside, he has refused to pay his way and earns more than enough to do so.

You need to stop letting him bully you.

LegacyUser

This little piggy wrote: »

Get him in a calm mood (no point in discussing these things when he's aggressive to start with.)

Draw up a contract for both of you to sign. Make it on your terms (as it's your house) - include his contribution towards rent and bills, and the usual terms of a rent-a-room contract, but also include personal terms such as how it's reasonable to treat each other in the household, and who's responsible for what. The contract should be personal to your family and he should have some input into it too.

Make it clear that you're willing to rent the room to him at a reduced rate (as he's family). And let him know that ideally you'd like him to continue living there - if you do. But also make it clear that his current behaviour is completely unacceptable, and that at his age he has no automatic right to a room in your house at all. Make it clear that you would like to come to an arrangement as two grown adults. The contract should be as detailed as possible, and should absolutely include arrangements about household chores and cooking etc. This is somewhere where negotiation between the two of you should be involved - you don't seem to have a problem with doing most of the cooking, and that's grand if it works for both of you, so long as he's willing to e.g. do most of the washing up instead, depends really on what works for you both. Just make sure he's pulling his weight, and if in the discussion he makes it clear that he's not willing to pull his weight, increase the rental rate accordingly to reflect your role as basically his cook and cleaner and personal servant. Let him know that you're not going to do those things for him for free now that he's an adult.

If he's not willing to agree to the contract and to the rent that you set, be reasonable, give him 30 days notice. In your position, I wouldn't hesitate to change the locks on the 30 day deadline. I'd also inform the Gardai before you do so - given his past behaviour, it's not unlikely that he'd damage your house/property out of rage when he realises the locks have been changed.

If he does agree to stay on, within the terms of the contract, I think it's entirely reasonable for you to insist on a good large deposit to start with, given his past form. It's very possible that he'll end up damaging more of your property, in which case the deposit should be reduced accordingly each time. (Should this happen, no harm recording it by e-mail, and getting him to agree to the reduction by e-mail if the contract agreement between you is to continue.

I know he's family, but I really believe that in your situation you need to make the arrangement as formal as possible. I think the only way of making him grow up a bit is to give him some little bit of cop on to how the real, adult world operates. If he doesn't like it? Fine, he is absolutely free to leave when he wants to. Good luck to him finding a place that cheap with an in-built maid, though!

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'll try the approach suggested by littlepiggy first see what happens. Unfortunately I think snoopsheep may be right and it won't be worth a damn but I'll give it one more try.

Deleted User wrote: »

genuinely?

I'd have yr local community garda waiting for him the next time he came home, if they would make themselves available.

his behaviour is totally unacceptable and I agree with the poster that it's a small step for him to take his next tantrum out on you.

your word/contract won't be worth a damn to him after getting twenty years his own way and imo a suitcase packed for him or a contract written out won't mean anything as its still between the two of you, and he's shown his contempt for that already.

a third party he can't bully or ignore involved at this stage will serve to drive home that he lives in the house under your sufferance and that you mean business.

if you're wary of getting that third party involved at this stage then I dunno what step short of that is going to jar him out of this but keep you and your property out of the firing line

conor8989

PinkLemonade wrote: »

Do not key him stay until Christmas unless he pays rent, he's trying to manipulate you, don't let him get away with it

dont let him get away with it he will only get worse and never learn that things have to be paid for

LegacyUser

Try not to be too hard on yourself about this. I know people will blame you for the way you raised him, but sometimes it goes beyond that.

Your son sounds a lot like my brother (my brother is much older though). He always thought that he was entitled to be looked after and have his every whim catered for. If this didn't happen, he would get aggressive, kick holes in walls, etc. But he has a diagnosed personality disorder. However, knowing this doesn't help us to deal with him, and he has now estranged him from everyone in the family because he didn't get his way for something very minor.

I know it's very difficult for my parents, but it has to be said that everyone's life is easier without his constant outbursts, and he is probably happier himself, too, we like to think, not having to deal with us "monsters").

I'm sorry I don't really have any concrete advice on how to deal with him, but maybe if your could get to a GP or counsellor to deal with his anger, it might help. And try not to blame yourself too much. He is a grown man now and he needs to be responsible for his own actions.