dashcam and the law

AprilPhilips

If osmeone has a dashcam and they live in an estate where there are children out playing aren't the the kids being filmed all the time when the driver arives leaves etc?. is that legal?

jimmycrackcorm

How would it be illegal given that dashcams record the public road not surrounding areas like playgrounds. It would be like saying you can't use cameras at all just in case a kid came into view.

Pro Hoc Vice

AprilPhilips wrote: »

If osmeone has a dashcam and they live in an estate where there are children out playing aren't the the kids being filmed all the time when the driver arives leaves etc?. is that legal?

Why should it not be? If a house has CCTV camera for security looking at the public road and happens to film children and adults would that not be legal?

AprilPhilips

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

How would it be illegal given that dashcams record the public road not surrounding areas like playgrounds. It would be like saying you can't use cameras at all just in case a kid came into view.

the children often play in the road and cross in front of the driver. I do not say it is illegal just wondering

AprilPhilips

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Why should it not be? If a house has CCTV camera for security looking at the public road and happens to film children and adults would that not be legal?

I am not sure if you are allowed to have your cctv pointing at the road in an estate so you see peoplepassing. Why not just cover your yard?

Pro Hoc Vice

AprilPhilips wrote: »

I am not sure if you are allowed to have your cctv pointing at the road in an estate so you see peoplepassing. Why not just cover your yard?

Yes you are there is a High Court case on the point as long as the CCTV is looking at what a person can see not issue.

Zambia

The rule of thumb is really do you have a reasonable expectation of privacy where you are being filmed.

Paulw

AprilPhilips wrote: »

the children often play in the road and cross in front of the driver. I do not say it is illegal just wondering

In general, there are no specific differences in privacy for adults or children. You can record a child as much as you can an adult, in a public area.

easygoing1982

Paulw wrote: »

In general, there are no specific differences in privacy for adults or children. You can record a child as much as you can an adult, in a public area.

It doesnt make sense what the OP is asking because if that was the case you could question most CCTV locations.

The reason i quoted your post Paul is would you class a GAA pitch or an area an athletics club runs in to be a public area.

The reason i ask is i do know that people taking pictures of children in these areas need the permission of the clubs/person in charge and also need to sign paperwork

delahuntv

easygoing1982 wrote: »

It doesnt make sense what the OP is asking because if that was the case you could question most CCTV locations.

The reason i quoted your post Paul is would you class a GAA pitch or an area an athletics club runs in to be a public area.

The reason i ask is i do know that people taking pictures of children in these areas need the permission of the clubs/person in charge and also need to sign paperwork

Isn;t there a difference between a "public place" and an area where the public are permitted.

A GAA club is private grounds where the public are permitted and they would have control of happening there, a street is a public place, hence, no issue with filming of anything.

Peregrinus

Other way round: in most contexts, a "public place" is a place to which the public have access, regardless of who owns it.

So a GAA ground, for example, or a supermarket, is a "public place".

But the owner can ask you not to take photographs or videos.

easygoing1982

delahuntv wrote: »

Isn;t there a difference between a "public place" and an area where the public are permitted.

A GAA club is private grounds where the public are permitted and they would have control of happening there, a street is a public place, hence, no issue with filming of anything.

Yeah there probably is. I wasnt doubting, it was more of a question

Tom Young

Atherton v DPP, per Peart J.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Youngblood.III

Most dash cams are only "on" when the car is started, it's main purpose is to record while operating the car.

AprilPhilips

Youngblood.III wrote: »

Most dash cams are only "on" when the car is started, it's main purpose is to record while operating the car.

The car tends to be on when you drive through an estate

MarkAnthony

Might I ask what your general concern over the kids being filmed is, especially on a medium like a dashcam.

Youngblood.III

No one knows what exactly you're asking op?

Let me help you out...
Dashcam- used to record driving, as it placed on the dash or a car... (not at children)..

Now if your standing with a video camera pointing it at a bunch of kids or a playground...that's where you ring the cops and report (possibly) the strange behaviour.

Paulw

Youngblood.III wrote: »

Now if your standing with a video camera pointing it at a bunch of kids or a playground...that's where you ring the cops

Why? What law has been broken?

Youngblood.III

Paulw wrote: »

Why? What law has been broken?

Never said the law was broken, but if I seen a man who was filming kids (unless it was obviously a relative) I would give a quick call to the cops and let them figure out if anything is up.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Paulw

Youngblood.III wrote: »

Never said the law was broken, but if I seen a man who was filming kids (unless it was obviously a relative) I would give a quick call to the cops and let them figure out if anything is up.

And, more often than not, the Gardai will inform you that no law is being broken and you are wasting their time, or they will eventually turn up, have a chat with the person filming or taking photos, laugh and then leave.

It is better to report a crime and let the Gardai do their job of law enforcement, rather than wasting it when someone is not breaking any law. :rolleyes:

haveringchick

Some children on my mothers estate were making a nuisance of themselves by playing "chicken " by running in front of moving cars. Eventually parents were spoken to by RA and all but 2 siblings stopped.
Now not only playing chicken but throwing litter and small stones at passing cars.
Driver with dashcam captured incidents and went to the Gardai. Community Garda visits children's parents presented evidence and hey presto problem solved.
Some predictable mumbling and grumbling about Data Protection etc but that was soon knocked on the head. Hurray for dashcams!

Zambia

The day will come when they are standard kit in all cars. I have one in the wifes car and one in mine is on the to do list.

easygoing1982

Paulw wrote: »

And, more often than not, the Gardai will inform you that no law is being broken and you are wasting their time, or they will eventually turn up, have a chat with the person filming or taking photos, laugh and then leave.

It is better to report a crime and let the Gardai do their job of law enforcement, rather than wasting it when someone is not breaking any law. :rolleyes:

Is it not better to have them turn up and find out all is in order rather than finding out something has happened to a child by that person you were looking at earlier.

Although it may not be against the law to video children,it surely has to be a condition of someone on the sex offenders list not to partake in such an activity.If it is and that person is a sex offender how is the ordinary person meant to know who is taking the pictures without calling the guards.

Also by your logic your saying the guards are wasting their time conducting checkpoints etc considering they could stop 99 innocent motorists and 1 motorist could be transporting thousand of euros of drugs or simply going around with no insurance

RustyNut

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Although it may not be against the law to video children,it surely has to be a condition of someone on the sex offenders list not to partake in such an activity.If it is and that person is a sex offender how is the ordinary person meant to know who is taking the pictures without calling the guards.

Whats the connection between photography, whatever the subject and sex offenders.

MarkAnthony

I'm very anti this filming/taking photos of kids must mean the person is going home and pulling the lad off himself, but even I can see that someone out of the ordinary standing there filming/taking photos of a number of children probably warrants a call to the guards.

It's incidental photography that annoys me, eg - dash cams, mums and dads filming the school play/day at the beach etc. How the hell is there anything wrong with this even if it does capture other people's kids? To be fair given the OPs post in another thread I get the impression she was just worried about her camera recording kids. OP if that's the case it's unwarranted, I think you can rest assured.

easygoing1982

Paulw wrote: »

And, more often than not, the Gardai will inform you that no law is being broken and you are wasting their time, or they will eventually turn up, have a chat with the person filming or taking photos, laugh and then leave.

It is better to report a crime and let the Gardai do their job of law enforcement, rather than wasting it when someone is not breaking any law. :rolleyes:

RustyNut wrote: »

Whats the connection between photography, whatever the subject and sex offenders.

I didnt say there was any connection to sex offenders. What i did say in my reply to Paulw in a roundabout way and only because its children is what was the harm in calling the guards about someone taking pictures of children if you believe that person to be suspicious.

The guards would be able to check that person out and there would be no harm done if all was in order.My own personal opinion is that i would find it very strange for a person to be taking pictures of random children unknown to them.

The thread seems to be veering off topic so i wont be commenting anymore on this side of things.

Paulw

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Is it not better to have them turn up and find out all is in order rather than finding out something has happened to a child by that person you were looking at earlier.

Why, when the vast majority of people filming/photographing are well within the law? Should we then use your logic and start stopping everyone with a cameraphone (the vast majority) having their phones anywhere that kids may be? That would then rule out any possible issue with photography/filming of children?

easygoing1982 wrote: »

I didnt say there was any connection to sex offenders.

But you did -

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Although it may not be against the law to video children,it surely has to be a condition of someone on the sex offenders list not to partake in such an activity.If it is and that person is a sex offender how is the ordinary person meant to know who is taking the pictures without calling the guards.

Most people photographing/filming children are the parents or relatives of a child there. I'm sure I can link to many cases where parents/relatives were unjustly harassed by police forces while not breaking the law in relation to filming/photographing children. Thankfully, the Gardai seem to have a better grasp on the law and it's application than many other police forces.

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Also by your logic your saying the guards are wasting their time conducting checkpoints etc considering they could stop 99 innocent motorists and 1 motorist could be transporting thousand of euros of drugs or simply going around with no insurance

Nope, not at all, because there are specific laws covering road checkpoints, insurance, tax, etc. I am all for Garda traffic checkpoints.

easygoing1982

Paulw wrote: »

Why, when the vast majority of people filming/photographing are well within the law?

Keeping in mind that the argument here is contacting the guards to check them out, is it not the same as someone calling the guards on suspicious looking people looking in to cars at scenic spots.Theres a local area near me thats been targeted frequently and the guards are actually advising people to contact them if they see someone acting suspiciously yet they havent broken any laws yet

Paulw wrote: »

Should we then use your logic and start stopping everyone with a cameraphone (the vast majority) having their phones anywhere that kids may be? That would then rule out any possible issue with photography/filming of children?

If these people were randomly photographing children yes.Whats the harm

Paulw wrote: »

Most people photographing/filming children are the parents or relatives of a child there.

Im referring to random people taking pictures of random children.Majority of the time someone would know if a person is connected to a child while they were out.Are you saying you wouldnt mind if i took pictures of your children whilst they were out and about and never consulted you.Can you honestly say you wouldnt bat an eyelid.

Paulw wrote: »

I'm sure I can link to many cases where parents/relatives were unjustly harassed by police forces while not breaking the law in relation to filming/photographing children.

I would hope that the parents were glad that there was someone looking out for the welfare of their children.

Paulw wrote: »

unjustly harassed by police forces

I dont suppose your one of these people who go around recording looking for a chance encounter with the guards so you could record yourself being "unjustly harassed by police forces" for youtube and the likes

Paulw

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Im referring to random people taking pictures of random children.Majority of the time someone would know if a person is connected to a child while they were out.Are you saying you wouldnt mind if i took pictures of your children whilst they were out and about and never consulted you.Can you honestly say you wouldnt bat an eyelid.

Nope, wouldn't mind at all, and it has happened.

easygoing1982 wrote: »

I would hope that the parents were glad that there was someone looking out for the welfare of their children.

Yeah, I'm sure the parents didn't mind being arrested and embarrassed for doing nothing wrong, except photographing/videoing their own child. :rolleyes:

https://www.google.com/search?q=parent+arrested+for+photographing+child&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

easygoing1982 wrote: »

I dont suppose your one of these people who go around recording looking for a chance encounter with the guards so you could record yourself being "unjustly harassed by police forces" for youtube and the likes

Nope, can't remember when last I had an encounter of any kind with the Gardai and I don't go around recording stuff, nor trying to provoke an incident.

But, I do have a dashcam in the car, and have photographed/videoed many childrens events. Not once have I been queried by the Gardai about it.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

AprilPhilips

AprilPhilips wrote: »

If osmeone has a dashcam and they live in an estate where there are children out playing aren't the the kids being filmed all the time when the driver arives leaves etc?. is that legal?

'Purpose of use' being the operative term here. Ive seen cases where companies have used cctv evidence was used to discredit clients/employees in employment/client disputes and they were given a slap on the wrist due to using cctv for other than its original purpose which is a security prevention against intruders. By your logic, camera's and camera phones should be banned as they have the capability of taking pictures of a child that happens to be walking down the street

easygoing1982

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There is no mention of paedophiles in the OP.It was me that brought the mention of paedophiles trying to justifying calling the guards.I also dont believe dash cams are a danger and i also have one myself.

Paulw wrote: »

And, more often than not, the Gardai will inform you that no law is being broken and you are wasting their time, or they will eventually turn up, have a chat with the person filming or taking photos, laugh and then leave.

It is better to report a crime and let the Gardai do their job of law enforcement, rather than wasting it when someone is not breaking any law. :rolleyes:

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Although it may not be against the law to video children,it surely has to be a condition of someone on the sex offenders list not to partake in such an activity.If it is and that person is a sex offender how is the ordinary person meant to know who is taking the pictures without calling the guards.

AprilPhilips

Deleted User wrote: »

'Purpose of use' being the operative term here. Ive seen cases where companies have used cctv evidence was used to discredit clients/employees in employment/client disputes and they were given a slap on the wrist due to using cctv for other than its original purpose which is a security prevention against intruders. By your logic, camera's and camera phones should be banned as they have the capability of taking pictures of a child that happens to be walking down the street

i did not use any 'logic' and never said anything should be banned. i just asked a question.. A camera and phone are quite visible in use. dashcam is not.

Paulw

AprilPhilips wrote: »

i did not use any 'logic' and never said anything should be banned. i just asked a question.

I think your question has been well answered - nothing illegal about a dashcam, and nothing illegal about recording children in public.