Is this fraud

saintNsinnerr

Hiya,
long time lurker (about 4 years) on this forum but not a regular poster .
I need some advice , I hope someone will direct me.

So I used to in a Grocery Store (kind of Centra , Spar`s etc).
Now the owner there used to do this :-

Mod: title changed from forgery to fraud
He knew someone from one of the eastern European countries, the eastern European guy used to bring his own personal stuff over to Ireland , for business use , it was all legit and also brought some wines and alcohol in the country to `cover` his fuel cost etc. (as there is a legal limit how much you can bring in the country for personal use , which was just over 100 bottles of Wine in one go in your personal car/ van , I am guessing it was legit ,thats what he told me anyway (?))
So the eastern European guy used to sell the wine to my Boss for real cheap prices , and my Boss without paying the Tax on it used to sell it further to the shop customers for 3 times the price he purchased from the guy.

A few days ago the Boss also fired me from the job , WITHOUT giving any PRIOR warnings for doing anything wrong, he just said he dont want to see me in the shop again. But I am guessing that he fired me because I asked him to pay my holiday entitlement money , which was over 500 €`s. I never did anything wrong , was always pleasant to customers , was efficient at my work and if only , I helped business grow. Now if teh business would have been doing poorly I would have forgotten about the holiday money and Thanked God that I had a job anyway.
I only got pay slips when I requested him, so I got about 10 payslips in the time I worked there , I worked there for about an year. He also only paid my tax for half the hours I worked there ,same goes for ALL the staff members who worked there. I was there full time anyway .

I dont know where to start from if I want to report him regarding his little Alcohol business for not giving me a reason to sack me , for not giving me my pay slips , for not paying my tax.
Thanks for reading my rant and I hope someone here will have some sort of information on this matter.
Much Regards.

kneemos

Tell him you want your money or you'll be talking to Revenue.

saintNsinnerr

saintNsinnerr wrote: »

I dont know where to start from if I want to report him regarding his little Alcohol business for not giving me a reason to sack me , for not giving me my pay slips , for not paying my tax.
Thanks for reading my rant and I hope someone here will have some sort of information on this matter.
Much Regards.

I'd leave the reporting to authorities thing out if it, concentrate on your own case and make an application to a Rights Commissioner or the EAT.

tigger123

What's the question?

Earthhorse

Whatever course of action you decide upon I'm pretty sure there's no forgery involved. Fraud maybe, but not forgery.

Sir Osis of Liver.

Tell him you want 100 bottles of wine.

5starpool

There are several illegal things there if true, so if you really wanted to I'm sure you could get him in trouble if it could be proven.

justchecked

get onto the vintners association, they'll love this.


or better yet, threaten him that you will unless he coughs up your pay.


or even better yet, consider who you're threatening first ... and then choose wisery danial san.

jungleman

Start buying the wine from the Eastern European guy instead. Your ex boss's business will fail.

Drink the wine.

FishOnABike

First thing I'd suggest is to get some proper legal advice on whether you have a case for unfair dismissal.

Earthhorse

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

Tell him you want 100 bottles of wine.

Non sequential and unmarked.

Duckworth_Luas

Check if he has an Ashley Madison account

Samaris

saintNsinnerr wrote: »

He knew someone from one of the eastern European countries, the eastern European guy used to bring his own personal stuff over to Ireland , for business use , it was all legit and also brought some wines and alcohol in the country to `cover` his fuel cost etc. (as there is a legal limit how much you can bring in the country for personal use , which was just over 100 bottles of Wine in one go in your personal car/ van , I am guessing it was legit ,thats what he told me anyway (?))

I can't be sure, but I suspect if he's selling it on, that's exactly what you're not allowed do - it's supposed to be for personal use? I'm no expert though, so I'll leave that aside for someone with a better notion of it.

So the eastern European guy used to sell the wine to my Boss for real cheap prices , and my Boss without paying the Tax on it used to sell it further to the shop customers for 3 times the price he purchased from the guy.

Definitely illegal, but bear in mind that you did know about it. You might be protected as a whistleblower, but you may be on dodgy ground. I would handle that issue very much seperately.

A few days ago the Boss also fired me from the job , WITHOUT giving any PRIOR warnings for doing anything wrong, he just said he dont want to see me in the shop again. But I am guessing that he fired me because I asked him to pay my holiday entitlement money , which was over 500 €`s.

I take it you didn't get your holiday allowance! You do have to work over a certain length of time, so he might have squeaked in under...is it 9 months? Again, not an expert here. But you definitely have a case to bring to the ..

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/employment_rights_and_duties/employment_law_update.html

This lot!

I only got pay slips when I requested him, so I got about 10 payslips in the time I worked there , I worked there for about an year. He also only paid my tax for half the hours I worked there ,same goes for ALL the staff members who worked there. I was there full time anyway .

Yep, you have a case here too, bring this up with the previously linked lot and Revenue will certainly be interested too.

I dont know where to start from if I want to report him regarding his little Alcohol business for not giving me a reason to sack me , for not giving me my pay slips , for not paying my tax.

Focus on what affects you first. He fired you with no prior cause written up, so that's you in work for a period and presumably no reference to give to your next application. You also need to get on to them about your tax, so you'll need your payslips and the holiday pay would also be good! I'd say sort that out first and then if you want to do something about the alcohol thing, you can probably report it anonymously if you wish.

Best of luck!

Edit: Not forgery, no, but it probably is fraud on several accounts and certainly lousy business practices and unfair firing cause from what you've said. The Citizens Advice Bureau is the place to start. Another lot to talk to is the local JobCentre. They can probably also point you in the right direction if you ask to speak with someone.

lanos

saintNsinnerr wrote: »

I worked there for about an year. He also only paid my tax for half the hours I worked there ,same goes for ALL the staff members who worked there. I was there full time anyway .

as far as i'm aware, you need to be working over 12 months to be covered by the unfair dismissal act 1977
so when you say ABOUT A YEAR
can you be a bit more accurate

RoyalMarine

black mail him. Get a nice 5k out of it.

Then report the fúcker.

uch

Fuk me how did yiz read that

donegaLroad

Did you get a p45 op? How long were you working for him?

wardy2

Tell the tax man on both of them

feargale

FishOnABike wrote: »

First thing I'd suggest is to get some proper legal advice on whether you have a case for unfair dismissal.

This is the best advice yiu've got here. Go to a solicitor immediately.

Menas

Yeah, focus on the unfair dismisal aspect. Reporting him for the other stuff is spiteful...so do it after the unfair dismissal is resolved!

Menas

Menas wrote: »

Yeah, focus on the unfair dismisal aspect. Reporting him for the other stuff is spiteful...so do it after the unfair dismissal is resolved!

The UD aspect can be ruled in or out immediately depending on length of time worked.

There are many other aspects, the requirement to put certain conditions in writing, pay slips, holiday pay, minimum notice etc. etc. None of them huge money but would all amount to a claim worth making.

Reporting to customs and excise is fairly petty and won't result in a cent going the way of the OP. It also looks bad to use it in a hearing, a sort of scraping the barrel when one's own case isn't great.

Collie D

Out of interest how do you know he wasn't paying your full income tax value to Revenue?

dmc17

The exact same thing happened in your other job in the restaurant

Pawwed Rig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Reporting to customs and excise is fairly petty and won't result in a cent going the way of the OP. It also looks bad to use it in a hearing, a sort of scraping the barrel when one's own case isn't great.

Yes look the other way and say nothing is how we do things in this country. Smuggling is a victimless crime after all and has no bearing whatsoever on the level of taxes the rest of us pay.

Penny Tration

Op, get offline and go to an employment law specialist.

Massimo Cassagrande

dmc17 wrote: »

The exact same thing happened in your other job in the restaurant

Unlucky, isn't he/she....

evolving_doors

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Yes look the other way and say nothing is how we do things in this country. Smuggling is a victimless crime after all and has no bearing whatsoever on the level of taxes the rest of us pay.

Hmmm if he can operate at lower costs (not paying tax/wages) then he has a competition advantage from the shop down the road. Small change maybe if he's just doing the odd few bottles of wine and dicking the pay/tax of his employee. But chances are he's doing it on a larger scale over a longer period of time... I'd bet it's into the tens of thousands over a year if he's doing it with other goods and employees... and if every shopkeeper was doing it then.. etc. With the money saved he could be buying in more stock at a cheaper price or working his staff longer hours to outsell his competitors.

myshirt

Have you threatened to burn down his house yet?

threetrees

You are legally entitled to holiday pay and payslips, also your P45. Ring the tax office and see if he has submitted a P45 for you. If he hasn't been paying taxes on your behalf he is stealing from you and the revenue would be very interested in that. He may also be subjected to a full revenue audit which will sort the alcohol issue.

Speak to citizens advice as if you are unemployed you will need to claim benefits now but if your employer isn't honest about dismissal, redundancy or end of contract you may not get your entitlement.

evolving_doors

kneemos wrote: »

Tell him you want your money or you'll be talking to Revenue.

IS that not blackmail?

If you don't inform revenue then are you not party to the crime (if there was one!)?

1. Seek advice (try FLAC if you can't afford to pay, although maybe some won't charge for an initial consultation).
2. Report him anyway to revenue.

AndyBoBandy

This guy needs to be reported to Revenue.

He is doing all of us (taxpayers) out of something here. However small in the grand scheme of things, he's doing us all (the economy) out of income.
If there was a shopkeeper like this in every town/village how much lost income to the state would that amount to??

These tax dodgers aren't a million miles away from how Greece got itself into its own wonderful situation!!

Penny Tration

Bear in mind, op, that if you report the evasion of tax to revenue, you could end up owing revenue the money, because you knew about it and went along with it.

Pawwed Rig

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Bear in mind, op, that if you report the evasion of tax to revenue, you could end up owing revenue the money, because you knew about it and went along with it.

Nonsense. The OP did not profit from any of this and was engaged as an employee. Trying to scare the OP here is ridiculous. The proprieter is the person at fault here along with his supplier.

GrumpyMe

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Nonsense. The OP did not profit from any of this and was engaged as an employee. Trying to scare the OP here is ridiculous. The proprieter is the person at fault here along with his supplier.

I guess Jenny was referring to the payroll issues where all taxes may NOT have neen paid!

Penny Tration

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Nonsense. The OP did not profit from any of this and was engaged as an employee. Trying to scare the OP here is ridiculous. The proprieter is the person at fault here along with his supplier.

I'm not trying to scare the OP, and it's not nonsense, it can and does happen.

Which is why I suggested the OP go to a solicitor. Not just run to Revenue.

Penny Tration

GrumpyMe wrote: »

I guess Jenny was referring to the payroll issues where all taxes may NOT have neen paid!

Yep, I'm referring specifically to the OP supposedly only being put through payroll for half of his working hours

QuinDixie

if the op's employer has not paid the proper usc,prsi,paye, the op will be liable to pay the difference as they are the one who benefited from it. So the OP should rule out that option.
OP, you were let go as you raised concern/objection to the wine issue - make this the truth if you wish to pursue this to a tribunal.

upandcumming

You say you're owed 500. Tell him to give you a grand or you'll go to the VFI and the Revenue.

Massimo Cassagrande

Be mad if the OP was the Eastern european chap bringing in the wine for the lad to sell, wouldn't it..

Pawwed Rig

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Yes look the other way and say nothing is how we do things in this country. Smuggling is a victimless crime after all and has no bearing whatsoever on the level of taxes the rest of us pay.

I'm just saying how it'll be viewed by most forums that hear it.

But you can, if you want, run to Revenue and tell them about this friend who did a job for cash or that friend who brought back goods from the States and didn't declare them. I wouldn't criticise that, I would just advise clients not to engage in that stuff before a Court or EAT.

lanos

dmc17 wrote: »

The exact same thing happened in your other job in the restaurant

yes this is a huge coincidence....I suspect the OP is the internet forum equivalent of the Munchausen Syndrome patient.

Pawwed Rig

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Yep, I'm referring specifically to the OP supposedly only being put through payroll for half of his working hours

Ah right. Apologies. I thought it was the fraud aspect you were talking about.
Yeah this guy needs to be put out of business.

saintNsinnerr

5starpool wrote: »

There are several illegal things there if true, so if you really wanted to I'm sure you could get him in trouble if it could be proven.

Hi , Thanks for the reply , I have all the proofs , I saw this coming a few months back . I have ALL the old roasters with me , the pictures pof wines in the store room.
I just want him to suffer now , for what he did to me.

Avatar MIA

dmc17 wrote: »

The exact same thing happened in your other job in the restaurant

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

Unlucky, isn't he/she....

lanos wrote: »

yes this is a huge coincidence....I suspect the OP is the internet forum equivalent of the Munchausen Syndrome patient.

Possible, but also possible it's the same job the OP is talking about. The first post is within the region of one year. Also, could be wrong, but don't think English is the OP's native language.

saintNsinnerr

Guys , thanks very much for the reply , i am really overwhelmed with the replys.
First of all apologies , I forgot to mention that he gave me my holiday money than fired me(only coz I asked for my holiday money). Silly of me not to mention that in the opening post.
Anyway . I got a now job and will be starting soon. i dont want unfair dismissal case to be brought to court for what he did , I believe in what ever happens is for a good reason. So yeah , this new job will be in a different sector. So feck the old job.
I just want him to know that he cannot just fire people if they ask their holiday money and get away with doing business illegally.
I want revenge , to put it lightly . . I suffered for 2 months of not having money , I think its time that the favour should be returned.
I want him to pay all the taxes for ALL the 10 employees in the store. i dont mind paying my tax either. I can pay in installments right?
Can someone please tell me who to report for his little wine dealings? Regarding the tax issue I will go to Revenue.
I have all the proofs , pictures of all the old roasters , pictures of the wines stacked in the store. The wine company he orders his few wines from doesnt sell that kind of wine he buys illegally.
Also someone mentioned that this happened to me in my previous job too. Well yeah , it is the same job.


Thanks everyone for their replys.

saintNsinnerr

dmc17 wrote: »

The exact same thing happened in your other job in the restaurant

Its the same job @dmc17