'12 Fluence ZE €7,990 - bargain?

unkel

Linky

€120 tax for the year, cheap insurance, cheap maintenance, cheap fuel and at this price not that much depreciation. Automatic gearbox. Also don't Renaults have a 5 year manufacturers warranty these days, so at least 18 months left?

What's not to like?

I do know that you have to lease the battery with electric Renaults. Anyone know how much that would be with this car?

What's a realistic maximum range if you drive this gently on national roads / motorways at the speed limit with 5 people and luggage in it in winter?

Benny_Cake

Breakdown of the battery rental costs for the Zoe here, not sure if it differs for the Fluence but probably not. Range would very much depend on the health of the battery, very low mileage on the car so it shouldn't be much of an issue but if it was stored at a very high state of charge this could lead to some degradation.

You possibly know this already, but the Fluence has no fast charge capability which makes it almost unusable for longer journeys. It was originally designed to work with the Better Place battery swap network, which went under some time ago. If you can live with the battery rental, and only intend using it for shortish trips then it might be a good deal for you.

unkel

No fast charge would be a deal breaker alright

I really like the idea of battery swapping (ideally with a standard battery that can be used on most EVs) but I remember when Agassi presented his plans I thought his projections were far too optimistic

The lease costs are higher than I thought too (cheapest is €79 per month if you do the lowest mileage and if you're prepared to enter a 3 year contract - it's €99 with a 1 year contract)

Add up the cost of the lease over x years and you're not that far off a Leaf.

No fast charging, you'd regret it. I'm a big EV fan and I guarantee I wouldn't have the Leaf without fast charging, I wouldn't even have the leaf without the 6.6 Kw AC charger.

There is a good reason the Fluence was an epic failure, no fast charging !!!

ei9go

Deleted User wrote: »

Add up the cost of the lease over x years and you're not that far off a Leaf.

No fast charging, you'd regret it. I'm a big EV fan and I guarantee I wouldn't have the Leaf without fast charging, I wouldn't even have the leaf without the 6.6 Kw AC charger.

There is a good reason the Fluence was an epic failure, no fast charging !!!

and Battery Rental

mr.dunkey

The fast charger is the only thing that would put me off, nice car other than that, heres a Fluence ZE on donedeal that claims to have no battery rental http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-fluence-ze-no-battery-lease100-electric/9887929?offset=24
not sure how that works but nice car

unkel

It's €3k more expensive than the one in my link. That's well more than leasing the battery from Renault for 3 years. And you have to pay up front. And then you don't get the Renault warranty should the battery fail or go below a 75% capacity. That's a terrible deal

mr.dunkey

unkel wrote: »

It's €3k more expensive than the one in my link. That's well more than leasing the battery from Renault for 3 years. And you have to pay up front. And then you don't get the Renault warranty should the battery fail or go below a 75% capacity. That's a terrible deal

Just an Idea, most peoples problem is rental, you could always haggle the price, Paying rental for me is not my thing, Do Renault not cover this battery anyway like Nissan battery bought cars, 5years/100klms ?

unkel

There is zero VRT on importing an Electric Vehicle, right?

How about a €9,995 '12 Leaf from the North?

Linky

I'm not sure about battery warranty on Nissans / Renaults. Anybody know the details?

mr.dunkey

Zero Vrt is right ,but sterling is awful at the moment,
10 k sterling is about 13900 euro,

unkel

Aye, but that price is in Euro. €9,995 for a '12 Leaf (plus zero VRT) seems like a decent price?

What's the warranty on Leafs / Fluences and their batteries, lads? If I bought a '12 early next year, I'd like to have at least a full years manufacturers warranty left on both car and battery.

Roen

From the Nissan.ie site:

The Nissan LEAF - Basic Warranty Coverage is 3 years/100,000kms.
The Lithium-ion battery & drivetrain electric’s (traction motor/invertor etc) warranty is 5 years.

ecocar

unkel wrote: »

It's €3k more expensive than the one in my link. That's well more than leasing the battery from Renault for 3 years. And you have to pay up front. And then you don't get the Renault warranty should the battery fail or go below a 75% capacity. That's a terrible deal

Hi unkel,
I am selling the car above and I'm sorry if you think its a terrible deal but you are not mentioning the fact that my car is also a higher spec and comes with extra cables and new podpoint home charger.
Yes you pay for the battery up front but you own it after that and as you said yourself the cheapest rental is €79 per month if you do the lowest mileage so it cost around the same not 'well more' and then as it goes up depending on mileage the battery rental could work out more expensive.
Also you are also stuck with a contact for 3 years with penalty's if you want to get out.
This should clarify matters for you.

ecocar

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Just an Idea, most peoples problem is rental, you could always haggle the price, Paying rental for me is not my thing, Do Renault not cover this battery anyway like Nissan battery bought cars, 5years/100klms ?

Hi mr dunkey,
The battery is still covered by Renault Warranty.

ecocar

unkel wrote: »

There is zero VRT on importing an Electric Vehicle, right?

How about a €9,995 '12 Leaf from the North?


Its a great price alright but unfortunately they are looking for 9,995 Pounds sterling and not euro as they advertised in donedeal.

Again, You will regret not having fast charging. You will find that an EV if far more practical than you thought and you won't want to drive anything else. There is a good reason the Fluence was a complete failure !

You could buy the car and break it for parts, imo this is the only practical use for a fluence, and I'm not being smart about it either !

unkel

ecocar wrote: »

Its a great price alright but unfortunately they are looking for 9,995 Pounds sterling and not euro as they advertised in donedeal.

You are right. Here's proof:

Linky

He has plenty of cars for sale on donedeal.ie and all are incorrectly priced in Euro. Someone needs to explain to Liam Kehoe that not everybody in the whole world is still part of the Great British Empire using Pounds Sterling :rolleyes:

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

What's a realistic maximum range if you drive this gently on national roads / motorways at the speed limit with 5 people and luggage in it in winter?

we have two 2012 ones here in work.
On a full charge, expect less than 100km, I think these have some of the first types of batteries, so not great.

Nice car to drive though, nice bit of torque, with enough gadgets, sat nav, Bluetooth, usb in etc

100 kms should be a new battery at the height of winter. The late 2013 updated leaf has a better battery.

God knows how some of these fluence's have been stored. There is no leaf spy to confirm battery health either and no battery capacity bars on the dash.

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

100 kms should be a new battery at the height of winter. The late 2013 updated leaf has a better battery.

God knows how some of these fluence's have been stored. There is no leaf spy to confirm battery health either and no battery capacity bars on the dash.

Ours are staff cars on loan from ESB, so its pooled out to whoever books them first and are used on a daily basis.

They would be trashed, not cared about and parked/driven anywhere throughout Dublin.

They would be a good way to see how they have performed or lasted from the use, and I will check the battery again the next time I book it for a full charge.

I'd have a Leaf over one any day of the week, but financially they are a good entry point to EV ownership.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

Ours are staff cars on loan from ESB, so its pooled out to whoever books them first and are used on a daily basis.

They would be trashed, not cared about and parked/driven anywhere throughout Dublin.

They would be a good way to see how they have performed or lasted from the use, and I will check the battery again the next time I book it for a full charge.

I'd have a Leaf over one any day of the week, but financially they are a good entry point to EV ownership.

I would say if you add the two together, battery leas + car repayments you wouldn't be far off the cost of a Leaf and I couldn't calculate the value of having fast charging V not, the leaf would be of no use to me without it.

If you really only want it for school runs and local shops then it would be fine but you won't really ever have the option for anything else but if you are always going to have 2 cars and the 2nd car only travels these trips then it would be ok but if you need to take a longer trip in that day you simply can't do it in a Fluence EV unless you know you can leave it somewhere for up to 7 hours to charge.

mr.dunkey

Agree with Madlad a cheap LEAF would be better unless you got the Fluence for 4k, Rapid DC charging and a great roomy car.

cros13

+1 I'm afraid the Fluence ZE would only be good value if the €5k (which is the price I've seen people get them from dealers for) included the battery.

And even then you'd want to know what you are buying. I've pulled up to rapid chargers a couple of times now to find puzzled fluence drivers staring intently at the plugs. One or two even refused to let me pull in, insisting that they were "going to charge".

They are an ideal for a 2nd EV for an existing EV owner.

The Fluence battery would make a great Wind Turbine storage battery !!!

air

There are a few older Renaults (Kangoo ZE and Fluence) being advertised on DoneDeal as having no battery lease - is this possible somehow?

cros13

air wrote: »

There are a few older Renaults (Kangoo ZE and Fluence) being advertised on DoneDeal as having no battery lease - is this possible somehow?

Not to my knowledge. I know that Renault sells the battery with the cars in Norway because the government there requires it for the tax exemptions.

I've also heard of a battery purchase arrangement for the Zoe in the UK that some people reached with Renault.

air

Here's one of them:
http://www.donedeal.ie/commercials-for-sale/renault-kangoo-maxi-ze-no-battery-lease/9819250

I'd be very weary about buying any Renault EV that advertises that the battery is included with the car. I would get the Reg and call an official Renault EV dealer.

Remember, any lease that isn't being paid can have charging on the car remotely disabled.

unkel

air wrote: »

Here's one of them:
http://www.donedeal.ie/commercials-for-sale/renault-kangoo-maxi-ze-no-battery-lease/9819250

That's sold be ecocars who has posted on this thread. He has several ZE Renaults for sale claiming battery included

Maybe he'll come back on here to explain

ecocar

unkel wrote: »

That's sold be ecocars who has posted on this thread. He has several ZE Renaults for sale claiming battery included

Maybe he'll come back on here to explain

And here's the explanation as called for... btw its no claim - the battery comes with the car....


Any of the cars I have for sale can be checked and verified by Renault ( the battery comes with the car - its is not leased or otherwise - as I am only dealing with EV and hybrid car sales I know the full facts at this stage regarding battery ownership).

As a trader who deals specifically in this area I can purchase the vehicles outright without battery lease - hence there is NO battery lease on any of my vehicles.

Full details and checks by Renault can be carried out to obtain the full facts prior to purchase of same.

unkel

Thanks for coming back on here to explain, ecocar

Could you please share a bit of your knowledge about the Renault battery rental though? How come your cars and some others are not bound by a battery rental contract? Can anyone buy out the rental contract on the ZE they own from Renault? What money are we talking?

It's obvious from this thread that the Renault ZE cars are dead in the water, particularly the Fluence with extremely limited range and no fast charging. And no one in their right mind in this country is going to spend more per month on a battery rental than they would save on fuel compared to an ICE car

I would still be interested in owning a Fluence ZE, but only if it were extremely cheap to buy and without any monthly battery rental

ei9go

ecocar wrote: »

As a trader .

On carzone, unless it's a different company, you are listed as private sale for all your cars.

If this is your company, is it not against the law to advertise your cars as private sale.

Happy to be corrected about this.

Dexter1979

unkel wrote: »

Thanks for coming back on here to explain, ecocar

Could you please share a bit of your knowledge about the Renault battery rental though? How come your cars and some others are not bound by a battery rental contract? Can anyone buy out the rental contract on the ZE they own from Renault? What money are we talking?

It's obvious from this thread that the Renault ZE cars are dead in the water, particularly the Fluence with extremely limited range and no fast charging. And no one in their right mind in this country is going to spend more per month on a battery rental than they would save on fuel compared to an ICE car

I would still be interested in owning a Fluence ZE, but only if it were extremely cheap to buy and without any monthly battery rental

Renault Ireland wants to clear its stock of the Fluence ZE. They are no longer made in the EU. Only in South Korea where it has the same charger as the Zoe.

Renault ZE cars are not dead in the water, even with the battery lease. In the EU its the best selling EV. In Ireland it's different. That is a cultural thing. I see no problem with the lease as it makes the car more affordable. If you get one on PCP they can do a price with rental included. It's still way cheaper than an ICE and a lot nicer to drive.

Love my Zoe!

The battery Rental offers no advantages really, maybe if you do small mileage. The option should be there to buy the battery with the car but Renault are not interested in selling the zoe so I can't see that happening soon and it is rather expensive probably about as expensive as a diesel clio automatic diesel but it would still have more equipment.

There's nothing wrong with the leaf selling better in Ireland I think it's a nice car inside. Is not a bad place to sit. I'm not really a Renault fan anyway but Zoe is a good EV is just a pity Renault choose only 90 hp, how typically Renault.

unkel

You do realise that Nissan and Renault is the same company?

The only difference is that the designers of the Renault models seem to come from Europe and the designers of the likes of the Leaf must have come from Japan :pac:

unkel

unkel wrote: »

You do realise that Nissan and Renault is the same company?

The only difference is that the designers of the Renault models seem to come from Europe and the designers of the likes of the Leaf must have come from Japan :pac:

lol I never suggested otherwise, I'm well aware of the Renault Nissan Alliance however it's the brands themselves I was comparing.