Grinds Question

Little Fairy

Hi
I am looking at giving grinds in September, i will probably only have time to do one or two a week so I would be earning under 3000 and from what I have read I would just need to fill in form 12, next October(2016). I was wondering do I have to do anything to inform revenue now that I am starting this? For example if I advertise now in the local supermarket and revenue ring looking for grinds how can I prove that I am tax compliant if I only send the return in next year?
Thanks in advance for your help.

digzy

do yourself a favour. get paid in cash like the 99% of other people giving grinds and use the cash for your groceries/clothes/meals out etc..... basically don't lodge it. you're fairly low down the revenue food chain.

barneystinson

digzy wrote: »

do yourself a favour. get paid in cash like the 99% of other people giving grinds and use the cash for your groceries/clothes/meals out etc..... basically don't lodge it. you're fairly low down the revenue food chain.

Not very helpful advice to somebody asking how to do things above board and correctly. Revenue officials have kids in school and know full well who is giving grinds. My advice would be it's not worth chancing it, as the penalties & interest if you get caught out down the line are punitive - pay your taxes.

digzy

barneystinson wrote: »

Not very helpful advice to somebody asking how to do things above board and correctly. Revenue officials have kids in school and know full well who is giving grinds. My advice would be it's not worth chancing it, as the penalties & interest if you get caught out down the line are punitive - pay your taxes.

Seriously, how can you get caught? Do you think revenue follow up on phone calls from disgruntled students/parents. It's not like rental income where you have to come clean. There's a paper trail there.

Teachers get paid in cash, don't do receipts. You're innocent till proven guilty. Are revenue gonna haul a teacher in front of a tribunal over a few hundred in unpaid tax....no chance.

As I said, if the teacher is paid in cash, isn't dumb enough to go and lodge it there's nothing for revenue to go on. Period!

barneystinson

digzy wrote: »

Seriously, how can you get caught? Do you think revenue follow up on phone calls from disgruntled students/parents.

You should stick to the <SNIP> and leave tax to the professionals in that field.

I'm not going to explain to you any of the several means by which a person can very easily be demonstrated to have been providing grinds if and when the time comes, other than to say your advice is poor (and contrary to the charter, but I'll let the mods deal with that).

digzy wrote: »

It's not like rental income where you have to come clean. There's a paper trail there.

<SNIP>

digzy wrote: »

Teachers get paid in cash, don't do receipts. You're innocent till proven guilty. Are revenue gonna haul a teacher in front of a tribunal over a few hundred in unpaid tax....no chance.

As I said, if the teacher is paid in cash, isn't dumb enough to go and lodge it there's nothing for revenue to go on. Period!

Tax is a civil matter, not criminal - if a tax assessment is raised it's up to the taxpayer to prove that the assessment is excessive, on a balance of probabilities. If it's already evident that they've been dishonest insofar as they failed to declare the income source to begin with, they're starting from a credibility deficit when the matter reaches an appeal commissioner and the quantum of the income is to be determined, aren't they...

digzy

barneystinson wrote: »

You should stick to the <SNIP> and leave tax to the professionals in that field.

I'm not going to explain to you any of the several means by which a person can very easily be demonstrated to have been providing grinds if and when the time comes, other than to say your advice is poor (and contrary to the charter, but I'll let the mods deal with that).

<SNIP>



Tax is a civil matter, not criminal - if a tax assessment is raised it's up to the taxpayer to prove that the assessment is excessive, on a balance of probabilities. If it's already evident that they've been dishonest insofar as they failed to declare the income source to begin with, they're starting from a credibility deficit when the matter reaches an appeal commissioner and the quantum of the income is to be determined, aren't they...

You ought relax a bit and not be making the thing personal!

I know loads of teachers who give grinds. None of them pay tax on it. One particular fella actually takes a few kids at a time like a mini class!
Seriously, how would a teacher get caught? Just curious...

barneystinson

digzy wrote: »

You ought relax a bit and not be making the thing personal!

I know loads of teachers who give grinds. None of them pay tax on it. One particular fella actually takes a few kids at a time like a mini class!
Seriously, how would a teacher get caught? Just curious...

I'm sure some of your loads of teacher friends will be able to tell you, in due course.

Especially the guy who takes a few kids at a time. (I'm sure no one working in Revenue who has kids in school will ever hear about him...!)

digzy

barneystinson wrote: »

I'm sure some of your loads of teacher friends will be able to tell you, in due course.

Especially the guy who takes a few kids at a time. (I'm sure no one working in Revenue who has kids in school will ever hear about him...!)

maybe, but I'm asking you!! how do they get caught out?
Do you honestly think Revenue act on every 'tip off' call they get from disgruntled citizens. Third time of asking now....

barneystinson

digzy wrote: »

Do you honestly think Revenue act on every 'tip off' call they get from disgruntled citizens. Third time of asking now....

They're obliged to at least consider the merits of any tip off they get, yes. As for how they can catch out teachers giving grinds, you'll just have to be patient...

dbran

Hi

Generally the amounts involved are relatively tiny so it would probably not be worth the revenues while trawling through adverts for grinds in newspapers etc. to try and catch people out. It would cost them more in terms of time and proving how much they got for the grind would be a difficult proposition.

However, if only I had a euro for every person who came through the door saying "I never thought that I would be caught! I've been doing this for years and having a great time. But this morning I got a scary letter with a harp on it...... how did they find out... how much do they know...what should I do..." :rolleyes:

And the answer is always...well it dosen't matter how they found out, they are here now and you may need to consider writing a big cheque to revenue.

The folks who tried out Airb&B spring to mind.

Dbran

digzy

barneystinson wrote: »

They're obliged to at least consider the merits of any tip off they get, yes. As for how they can catch out teachers giving grinds, you'll just have to be patient...

so basically you dont know how revenue prove it:rolleyes:

barneystinson

digzy wrote: »

so basically you dont know how revenue prove it:rolleyes:

You can roll your eyes all you like, I'm not going to give you an answer that equates to a How To Evade Tax guide.

digzy

dbran wrote: »

Hi

Generally the amounts involved are relatively tiny so it would probably not be worth the revenues while trawling through adverts for grinds in newspapers etc. to try and catch people out. It would cost them more in terms of time and proving how much they got for the grind would be a difficult proposition.

However, if only I had a euro for every person who came through the door saying "I never thought that I would be caught! I've been doing this for years and having a great time. But this morning I got a scary letter with a harp on it...... how did they find out... how much do they know...what should I do..." :rolleyes:

And the answer is always...well it dosen't matter how they found out, they are here now and you may need to consider writing a big cheque to revenue.

The folks who tried out Airb&B spring to mind.

Dbran

Obviously enough. OP should declare income as outlined. However, in the real world we know how things work.

In a gp office for example, they've an appointment book and are obliged to keep proper records like a cash book etc.. so they are an easy target for revenue. In a chipper there's a till and I'm sure revenue can see how much stock is being bought vs sales.

However op is only providing a part time service. assuming the rate is 30 per hour op is providing 2-2.5 hours per week.....
tbf you can get killed by a plane from an airshow like last week, but what's the odds? Not a hope in hell op will get nailed by revenue at that level.

I know one teacher who takes 5-10 kids at a time and has a prefab set-up in his yard for grinds and does quite a few. Someone like that would wanna be an idiot not to declare something. (I know he doesn't though:rolleyes:) He makes more from grinds than the day job I'd say!

digzy

barneystinson wrote: »

You can roll your eyes all you like, I'm not going to give you an answer that equates to a How To Evade Tax guide.

what are you waffling about:rolleyes: who asked you that
you wont give an answer because you haven't one to give. get over yourself......

barneystinson

digzy wrote: »

what are you waffling about:rolleyes: who asked you that
you wont give an answer because you haven't one to give. get over yourself......

Oh no, not more rolleyes! :eek:

You've rolleyed me into submission digzy - I must come clean and admit nearly a thousand posts in on this forum that I don't have a breeze what I'm on about

Grolschevik

barneystinson wrote:

You've rolleyed me into submission jerzy - I must come clean and admit nearly a thousand posts in on this forum that I don't have a breeze what I'm on about

Sure isn't it just Provide Legal Exculpation And Sign Everything? :-D

Legend100

If I remember correctly, about three years ago Revenue listed a number of specific quick-win projects it would undertake to boost tax revenue. I am pretty certain that grinds was mentioned as a focus area as a lot of people advertise in shopping centre billboards etc so the information was easily available.
I'm out of Ireland a few years now so not sure if it ever went ahead (anyone here work in practice and come across it?)

If they are coming after airbnb people for rent a room, grinds could often be much more than that from a tax earning perspective so it is a no-brainer for Revenue to target teachers who give grinds

digzy

Legend100 wrote: »

If I remember correctly, about three years ago Revenue listed a number of specific quick-win projects it would undertake to boost tax revenue. I am pretty certain that grinds was mentioned as a focus area as a lot of people advertise in shopping centre billboards etc so the information was easily available.
I'm out of Ireland a few years now so not sure if it ever went ahead (anyone here work in practice and come across it?)

If they are coming after airbnb people for rent a room, grinds could often be much more than that from a tax earning perspective so it is a no-brainer for Revenue to target teachers who give grinds

there's a paper trail with the airbnb though....

barneystinson

digzy wrote: »

there's a paper trail with the airbnb though....

Ways and means digzy, ways and means...

digzy

barneystinson wrote: »

Ways and means jerzy, ways and means...

thats why you make the big bucks;)

barneystinson

digzy wrote: »

thats why you make the big bucks;)

<SNIP>

Maybe you shouldn't be advocating others underpay their taxes, since it impacts on the coffers <SNIP>

dudara

@digzy - please don't advocate tax avoidance, which is what you are doing.

@digzy/barneystinson - both of you need to rein it in. Focus on giving advice to the OP, instead of scoring points off each other.

dudara