Too old for apprenticeship

bheart65

Just wondering at what age are you considered too old to be looking for an apprenticeship as a mechanic or a construction plant fitter? I saw in another thread where a guy of 26 thought he was too old but there doesn't seem to be an official upper age limit. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89823832

Would 39 be crazy? Would garages even consider you? Mature people go back to college so I can't see why apprenticeships would be different. I would have tackled the basics with cars, such as oil, plugs and filter changes, brake discs, pads and fluid change, sensor replacements, reverse switches, wiper motors etc. but haven't ever tackled bigger stuff like timing belt/chains or head gaskets etc.

I also have done a bit with small two strokes and four strokes on mowers, chainsaws, strimmer, generators etc. Head gaskets, new valves, carb kits etc.

Just wondering if most places would look at me as if I'm a bit cracked :eek:, (they might be right )

Thanks in advance.

Boskowski

bheart65 wrote: »

Just wondering if most places would look at me as if I'm a bit cracked :eek:, (they might be right )

You'll fit right in so.

Hey I'm not qualified to give an opinion really but I think give it a go anyway. Its not like if someone took on an apprentice they naturally assume they'll be working there for the next 30 years. So whats the difference if someone employs a 19 year old or a 39 year old for a number of years? So age shouldn't matter that much. You sound like you'd be enthusiastic, that should matter more. All they can do is turn you down, nothing lost.

Teddington Cuddlesworth

Personally I'd prefer someone older, you'd know they are doing it as they want to do, and succeed at it rather than doing it to see if they like it.

The other reason I'd see against it would be you wouldn't find many people willing to give up their job to take on an apprentices wage when they could keep working their own job and train in the evenings/weekends.

lleyn

Go for it! I had an electrical apprentice working under me when I qualified...he was 35 I was 22.

bheart65

Teddington Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The other reason I'd see against it would be you wouldn't find many people willing to give up their job to take on an apprentices wage when they could keep working their own job and train in the evenings/weekends.

Thanks for all the replies, guys, much appreciated. So, there might be life in the old dog yet!

Just in relation to Teddington's comment above, I thought that the only way to qualify as a mechanic was to get a proper apprenticeship, I didn't know that there was a part-time option to train?

I'm also currently unemployed and I've got a place on a college course, cert. in computers but seriously think it might bore me to death, whereas I'm happier up to my elbows in the gubbins of an oily engine! Particularly, if I can bring an old engine back to life etc.

I just wonder if it might change if I was to do it as my job rather than a hobby, I'm a bit up in the air with it, tbh, and embarrassed not to have my life sorted by now but hey-ho we can't all be sensible adults

Guy:Incognito

I've been trying to get in the last year or so and am finding it very hard to get an interview tbh and the only reason I can see is age (I'm 34). I've done a few months in a garage before and have been doing most work on a heap of cars of family and friends (anything that can be reasonably done with a jack in the garden between rain showers :-) ), Ive worked in parts briefly as a service advisor (not my cup of tea) so I'e a broad enough experience of the industry.

I do find I get a bit more of a hearing when I show up in person because I dont look 34 but theres always the "eh, so yeah, eh , how old are you" as they start running through the CV. I suppose a lot of places want a young lad they can order around and think someone older might show some resistance.

I very much regret not doing it years ago but on the other hand I think the experience I've got from other jobs (years as a plumber means I wasnt a stranger to using tools either and retail gave me a thick skin) is a big advantage so theres two sides to it really.

bheart65

Thanks for the reply, Guy. It's good to get the insight of someone in a similar situation. Doesn't look overly promising for me, so, as you'd have way more experience and how garages are run, computer systems etc.

Like yourself, I too regret not doing it when I was younger. I was a bit of a late starter, trying to build up the confidence to take stuff apart when you're not too sure if it'll ever go back together again. But being older sometimes gives you a bit of life experience to figure out alternative solutions to problems. Anyway, thanks for the reply and best of luck with the search.

bucketybuck

I run main dealer workshops (among other things).

I would not hire an older apprentice, for various reasons fair and not so fair.

In a workshop the apprentices will, frankly, be getting all the **** jobs. They will be cleaning, running errands, pulling weeds, cleaning some more, unblocking the toilets, painting walls, emptying bins, all while taking casual abuse from the senior lads. The rest of the time they will be helping those senior lads on the job and if they are any good hopefully learning a thing or two.

Do I really want to put a 40 year old into that job? Do I really want some grown man getting frustrated at doing all the **** jobs for two years, who thinks its all below him? Some guy who doesn't want to take orders from a mechanic ten years his junior? Some guy who thinks he knows it all and also thinks he should tell you about it? Some guy complaining about getting minimum wage because he has a family to feed?

Garage apprenticeships are not a happy time of learning and knowledge on a path to a better world, they are the hard graft and ****ty work part of life that a young lad has to go through to learn his discipline. We go through a lot of apprentices here, both the young lads who start out with the desire to be good mechanics and the dossers who think its all big engines and tinkering with injectors. We look after the first group, they form a big part of our current staff, but I cannot ever see an older guy going through the same process.

A 40 year old is not the same as a 17 year old, they have completely different worldviews and completely different scope for learning. There will always be exceptions to the rule but lets be honest, when I have applications coming out of my hole why would I even take the chance that this 40 year man isn't going to be far more hassle than he is worth. Because if he really wanted to be a good mechanic, fact is he probably would have tried for it two decades ago.

corcaigh1

bucketybuck wrote: »

I run main dealer workshops (among other things).

I would not hire an older apprentice, for various reasons fair and not so fair.

In a workshop the apprentices will, frankly, be getting all the **** jobs. They will be cleaning, running errands, pulling weeds, cleaning some more, unblocking the toilets, painting walls, emptying bins, all while taking casual abuse from the senior lads. The rest of the time they will be helping those senior lads on the job and if they are any good hopefully learning a thing or two.

Do I really want to put a 40 year old into that job? Do I really want some grown man getting frustrated at doing all the **** jobs for two years, who thinks its all below him? Some guy who doesn't want to take orders from a mechanic ten years his junior? Some guy who thinks he knows it all and also thinks he should tell you about it? Some guy complaining about getting minimum wage because he has a family to feed?

Garage apprenticeships are not a happy time of learning and knowledge on a path to a better world, they are the hard graft and ****ty work part of life that a young lad has to go through to learn his discipline. We go through a lot of apprentices here, both the young lads who start out with the desire to be good mechanics and the dossers who think its all big engines and tinkering with injectors. We look after the first group, they form a big part of our current staff, but I cannot ever see an older guy going through the same process.

A 40 year old is not the same as a 17 year old, they have completely different worldviews and completely different scope for learning. There will always be exceptions to the rule but lets be honest, when I have applications coming out of my hole why would I even take the chance that this 40 year man isn't going to be far more hassle than he is worth. Because if he really wanted to be a good mechanic, fact is he probably would have tried for it two decades ago.

Are you saying that you have lads painting walls etc for 2 years of a four year mechanic's apprenticeship!!?

Toyotafanboi

corcaigh1 wrote: »

Are you saying that you have lads painting walls etc for 2 years of a four year mechanic's apprenticeship!!?

You are twisting his words.

bheart65

bucketybuck wrote: »

I run main dealer workshops (among other things).

I would not hire an older apprentice, for various reasons fair and not so fair.

In a workshop the apprentices will, frankly, be getting all the **** jobs. They will be cleaning, running errands, pulling weeds, cleaning some more, unblocking the toilets, painting walls, emptying bins, all while taking casual abuse from the senior lads. The rest of the time they will be helping those senior lads on the job and if they are any good hopefully learning a thing or two.

Do I really want to put a 40 year old into that job? Do I really want some grown man getting frustrated at doing all the **** jobs for two years, who thinks its all below him? Some guy who doesn't want to take orders from a mechanic ten years his junior? Some guy who thinks he knows it all and also thinks he should tell you about it? Some guy complaining about getting minimum wage because he has a family to feed?

Garage apprenticeships are not a happy time of learning and knowledge on a path to a better world, they are the hard graft and ****ty work part of life that a young lad has to go through to learn his discipline. We go through a lot of apprentices here, both the young lads who start out with the desire to be good mechanics and the dossers who think its all big engines and tinkering with injectors. We look after the first group, they form a big part of our current staff, but I cannot ever see an older guy going through the same process.

A 40 year old is not the same as a 17 year old, they have completely different worldviews and completely different scope for learning. There will always be exceptions to the rule but lets be honest, when I have applications coming out of my hole why would I even take the chance that this 40 year man isn't going to be far more hassle than he is worth. Because if he really wanted to be a good mechanic, fact is he probably would have tried for it two decades ago.

Thanks Buck for the response. I can see why you'd have your doubts about someone older for those reasons. Personally, I never have had any problem taking orders from anyone younger because if they are the one that's qualified, then they are my senior (regardless of age), and they're bound to know their stuff through sheer experience. Anyone my age, who wanted to do it because they have the desire to be a good mechanic, would totally understand that they're going to be bottom of the totem pole and have to do the crappier jobs. (If anyone has hit 40 without having to unblock a toilet, then they really haven't lived;) )

Out of all the stuff you mentioned, the only thing that would get to me would be the "casual abuse". Now, I'm not talking slagging or anything but if it was physical, I wouldn't be able to allow that, but then I'm more about using the carrot, not the stick approach.

You're also right, it's not usual for a 40 year old to be thinking of an apprenticeship, but then it's also not overly common for 40, 50 or 60 year olds to go back to college or university to try and get a new qualification but it does happen. It can take more cojones when you're older to try and change direction. Not everyone has the opportunity or confidence when they're younger. And to be fair, if I do decide to try the computer course, I'm still going to end up in a work environment where I'll be taking orders from people younger than me.

I might be naive but I don't see why apprenticeships can't be "a happy time of learning and knowledge" while also being "hard graft". The hard graft can tend to give you more satisfaction at the end of the day, and feel like you've physically done something.

Also, even by your own admission, you're taking a chance on whoever you hire, whether 17 or 40, as half of them are likely to turn out to be dossers anyway.

By the way, chat to your GP about "applications coming out of my hole". That can't be good for you, I'm sure they'd be able to prescribe some ointment.;)

Thanks again.

mgbgt1978

@Toyotafanboi. In all fairness......only very, very slightly twisting what he said.;)


@Guy:Incognito, If you are qualified (or close enough) as a plumber, there is surely a lot more money in that (even sticking with small cash jobs) than as a qualified mechanic.....probably the worst paid tradesmen in ireland.
Keep the 'mechanicing' as a hobby, it's more satisfying and far less pressure.

CianRyan

Well I'm 24, closer to 25 and I've just started my apprenticeship 6 weeks ago.

I really have to disagree with the above, if you're wasting years of an apprentice on unblocking toilets and painting the walls then I'm glad I'm in the garage that took me on and not with yourself. That's an unbelievable waste.

And if someone is considering an apprenticeship at 39, they're clearly going to be clued in about the wages and they've accepted that it'll be tough. Everyone know's apprentices get a hard time, that the work is difficult, especially at 39 years of age.
I have to say, they're not the naive ones. It's you.

JohnBoy26

CianRyan wrote: »

Well I'm 24, closer to 25 and I've just started my apprenticeship 6 weeks ago.

I really have to disagree with the above, if you're wasting years of an apprentice on unblocking toilets and painting the walls then I'm glad I'm in the garage that took me on and not with yourself. That's an unbelievable waste.

And if someone is considering an apprenticeship at 39, they're clearly going to be clued in about the wages and they've accepted that it'll be tough. Everyone know's apprentices get a hard time, that the work is difficult, especially at 39 years of age.
I have to say, they're not the naive ones. It's you.

Indeed. Fair enough if the workshop needs to be swept and so on but unblocking toilets and the like is definitely unacceptable imo.

triggermortis

OP I wouldn't let your age put you off applying for whatever you want to do. My wife had to interview apprentices at her last job and she took on a guy around your age, and he consistently out-performed most of his classmates (I think there were about a dozen taken on). If it's something you want todo, give it a go

Guy:Incognito

bucketybuck wrote: »

I run main dealer workshops (among other things).

I would not hire an older apprentice, for various reasons fair and not so fair.

In a workshop the apprentices will, frankly, be getting all the **** jobs. They will be cleaning, running errands, pulling weeds, cleaning some more, unblocking the toilets, painting walls, emptying bins, all while taking casual abuse from the senior lads. The rest of the time they will be helping those senior lads on the job and if they are any good hopefully learning a thing or two.

Do I really want to put a 40 year old into that job? Do I really want some grown man getting frustrated at doing all the **** jobs for two years, who thinks its all below him? Some guy who doesn't want to take orders from a mechanic ten years his junior? Some guy who thinks he knows it all and also thinks he should tell you about it? Some guy complaining about getting minimum wage because he has a family to feed?

Garage apprenticeships are not a happy time of learning and knowledge on a path to a better world, they are the hard graft and ****ty work part of life that a young lad has to go through to learn his discipline. We go through a lot of apprentices here, both the young lads who start out with the desire to be good mechanics and the dossers who think its all big engines and tinkering with injectors. We look after the first group, they form a big part of our current staff, but I cannot ever see an older guy going through the same process.

A 40 year old is not the same as a 17 year old, they have completely different worldviews and completely different scope for learning. There will always be exceptions to the rule but lets be honest, when I have applications coming out of my hole why would I even take the chance that this 40 year man isn't going to be far more hassle than he is worth. Because if he really wanted to be a good mechanic, fact is he probably would have tried for it two decades ago.

TBH if I hadnt served my time as a plumber (family members are all in the building trade and I kind of fell in to it for a few years,) I dont think I'd be looking to serve my time as a mechanic at this stage tbh. It's only that I knew the crap I'd be faced with and am fine with it. I'm at the stage where I've done various jobs that I got at stages because thats what was available that paid money. I'm at a point where I wanted to do something that interests me and I want to do that I will do for the next 30-35 years.

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

@Guy:Incognito, If you are qualified (or close enough) as a plumber, there is surely a lot more money in that (even sticking with small cash jobs) than as a qualified mechanic.....probably the worst paid tradesmen in ireland.
Keep the 'mechanicing' as a hobby, it's more satisfying and far less pressure.

Only saw this after I replied. Tbh , as I touched on above, it's not what I want to do for the rest of my working life. It's why I moved away from it. The money side doesn't swing it for me, I'd rather be poorer and happier.


I've also invested far more in tools for working on cars than I ever did for Plumbing at this stage too :-)

veganrun

CianRyan wrote: »

Well I'm 24, closer to 25 and I've just started my apprenticeship 6 weeks ago.

I really have to disagree with the above, if you're wasting years of an apprentice on unblocking toilets and painting the walls then I'm glad I'm in the garage that took me on and not with yourself. That's an unbelievable waste.

And if someone is considering an apprenticeship at 39, they're clearly going to be clued in about the wages and they've accepted that it'll be tough. Everyone know's apprentices get a hard time, that the work is difficult, especially at 39 years of age.
I have to say, they're not the naive ones. It's you.

Agreed. That sounds like a complete waste of an apprenticeship and a ground maintenance job rather than a mechanic apprenticeship. I would expect some slightly rubbish jobs to do like sweeping the workshop, moving parts etc, but the rest as described sounds like a joke and a waste of time, not sure how you learn to fix cars if you are too busy pulling weeds, making tea, unblocking toilets etc. At the end of the day I would be there as I want to learn about cars and how to fix them. If you aren't being trained in any apprenticeship in the actual job then its a waste of time.

CianRyan

That's it like, you're in a garage being educated and working with cars.
I'm flat out with services, PDI's and slowly building up on replacing suspension as braking parts. I feel useful, it takes pressure off the lads in the shop and it sounds like in 6 weeks I've learned more than I'd learn in 2 years in your mans garage.
He's a joker.

I also sweep up and take out the bins, that's part of it but it's should never be all of it or even the majority of it.

veganrun

CianRyan wrote: »

That's it like, you're in a garage being educated and working with cars.
I'm flat out with services, PDI's and slowly building up on replacing suspension as braking parts. I feel useful, it takes pressure off the lads in the shop and it sounds like in 6 weeks I've learned more than I'd learn in 2 years in your mans garage.
He's a joker.

I also sweep up and take out the bins, that's part of it but it's should never be all of it or even the majority of it.

Sounds like you are in a good garage.

Did you know much about fixing cars before you started?

bucketybuck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You are twisting his words.

They simply haven't a clue about the realities of what happens in a large workshop. The fact that some people read my post and ran with the idea that apprentices will do nothing for 2 years but paint walls and unblock toilets simply shows that they don't actually know what happens. Anybody who has actually ran a garage knows exactly what the apprentices are going to be doing.

I mean seriously, we currently have 5 apprentices and have a program to continuously bring new lads in every year, we pay for their FAS training and give them a good wage, do you really think they aren't learning anything? Really? Because what the hell use would they be to us otherwise?

It does speak to the OP and my own original post though. The very idea of doing some really ****ty jobs as part and parcel of being on the bottom rung of the ladder is unacceptable to some people. They will sweep up and take out the bins but thats it, they have to be working on cars or else! Well, thats exactly why its easier to have younger apprentices, they won't have such a sense of entitlement.

Our apprentices will learn from some level 4 master techs if they stick around. But part of that is getting the paintbrush out if we are repainting the workshop floor, or doing some yard work if I think the place is looking a bit scruffy. Thats just part of the deal and I'm not wasting my time arguing with any lad who thinks it shouldn't be. They can jog on and get somebody else to pay for their certs.

bucketybuck

bheart65 wrote: »

Out of all the stuff you mentioned, the only thing that would get to me would be the "casual abuse". Now, I'm not talking slagging or anything but if it was physical, I wouldn't be able to allow that, but then I'm more about using the carrot, not the stick approach.

Nah, by casual abuse I just mean the usual slagging that new people will get in any of the rougher industries, no doubt its the same for a new kid on a building site or in the army or wherever. Did you ever get sent for the Long Stand? That type of thing. Its not a genteel industry, but it can be very good natured in the type of casual insults being thrown around in the canteen during lunch.

Toyotafanboi

I got sent for a long weight before... at least I could sit down.

umop apisdn

bheart65 wrote: »

Just wondering at what age are you considered too old to be looking for an apprenticeship as a mechanic or a construction plant fitter? I saw in another thread where a guy of 26 thought he was too old but there doesn't seem to be an official upper age limit. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89823832

Would 39 be crazy? Would garages even consider you? Mature people go back to college so I can't see why apprenticeships would be different. I would have tackled the basics with cars, such as oil, plugs and filter changes, brake discs, pads and fluid change, sensor replacements, reverse switches, wiper motors etc. but haven't ever tackled bigger stuff like timing belt/chains or head gaskets etc.

I also have done a bit with small two strokes and four strokes on mowers, chainsaws, strimmer, generators etc. Head gaskets, new valves, carb kits etc.

Just wondering if most places would look at me as if I'm a bit cracked :eek:, (they might be right )

Thanks in advance.

There's no age limit for an apprenticeship, I might take up one after I retire.

Tigger

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nah, by casual abuse I just mean the usual slagging that new people will get in any of the rougher industries, no doubt its the same for a new kid on a building site or in the army or wherever. Did you ever get sent for the Long Stand? That type of thing. Its not a genteel industry, but it can be very good natured in the type of casual insults being thrown around in the canteen during lunch.

Nothing wrong with a long stand
Not a reason to take on a 40 year old apprentice coz he knows the joke
Personally I'd be much better at taking the shlte that some lads seem to need to throw about at 40 than I was at 17
At 17 is have drawn a line and had it out
At 40 I'd know it was par for the course and wait it out with good humor

CianRyan

bucketybuck wrote: »

They can jog on and get somebody else to pay for their certs.

I can, I have and I am glad for it.
Couldn't be happier being in my garage.


With regards to what I knew before hand, very little.
I could service my own car, fix small problems like a window coming off its runners or change a wiper linkage.
Simple bolt on, bolt off stuff.