Dublin Coach Launching Dundrum - Red Cow - Dublin Airport Service

J_Dublin15

From the Dublin Coach Website:

We are pleased to announce the launch of our new Cityscape Express City Transit service linking Dublin Airport-Red Cow Luas-Dundrum will commence on August 28th providing 32 services a day.

That's good news for passengers on our M7,M9 and N7 services with increased connectivity to Dublin Airport from the Red Cow Luas and also the added attraction of direct connectivity to Dundrum Town Centre.

Timetable:
http://dublincoach.ie/downloads/DublinAirport-Dundrum.pdf

LXFlyer

Correct timetable is here:
http://dublincoach.ie/downloads/DublinAirport-Dundrum.pdf

The Dublin-Airport-Red Cow-Dublin Airport seems to be more aimed at getting people to the Dundrum Centre off their M7 services and for providing a connection to/from the Airport from those M7 services, rather than offering a service from Dundrum to the Airport, with no service arriving at Dublin Airport before 08:10, and last departure from the Airport at 22:00. That makes it useless for early morning flights and late evening flights.

Given that there is limited connectivity with Dublin Bus and that they don't take LEAP its usefulness for local commuters is limited.

It will be interesting to see what coach type they use, given they are going to operate every 30 minutes all day long.

J_Dublin15

It's interesting they use the term " Cityscape Express City Transit " which indicates they may use the Cityscape name rather than Dublin Coach, suggesting it may not be a coach at all?

foggy_lad

The Limerick service will also be every 30 minutes from Westmoreland St with every second bus going to Ennis and the rest going to Tralee. Are they trying to put Irish Rail out of business on the Limerick & Tralee routes?

http://www.dublincoach.ie/downloads/DublinCoachM7KillarneyTralee.pdf

ITV2

should be fun at the Luas stop considering Eircom seems to use it as a van park most day.

Grandad99

Balally Luas is a stone’s throw from the roundabout at the bottom of Wyckham Way, and is the Luas stop closest to and associated with the Dundrum Town Centre, why take in more traffic congestion heading down to Dundrums main street / Dundrum Luas then back up again, seems totally unnecessary.

foggy_lad

ITV2 wrote: »

should be fun at the Luas stop considering Eircom seems to use it as a van park most day.

The red cow luas stop is very difficult to get a bus into and around at the best of times due to the lack of space and many awkward turns and roundabouts.

The new bus Eireann tri axle coaches on routes 4, 7, and other BE routes that use this place plus JJ Kavanagh to/from Waterford and Clonmel as well as the Dublin coach double deckers to/from Portlaoise and buses to/from Waterford and now to/from Limerick/Kerry every half hour and a new route with buses every half hour to/from Dundrum means this stop will be a nightmare and only a matter if time before there is a serious accident there!

Have the people in the NTA that allow this ever seen this stop when Dublin coach have two or three of those double deckers parked up plus a couple of their Limerick/Waterford buses in the que and other buses are trying to get past them safely? Have they ever used buses?

They have really let public transport down by trying to turn this pokey little tram stop into a multiple operator bus hub! An easy solution would be to sacrifice some of the parking spaces to allow bus parking and room for buses to turn around but that wouldn't happen as the carpark might lose a few euro.

River Song

Aw darn, was hoping it'd stop in Terenure like the old Aircoach route!

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

The red cow luas stop is very difficult to get a bus into and around at the best of times due to the lack of space and many awkward turns and roundabouts.


Have the people in the NTA that allow this ever seen this stop when Dublin coach have two or three of those double deckers parked up plus a couple of their Limerick/Waterford buses in the que and other buses are trying to get past them safely? Have they ever used buses?

They have really let public transport down by trying to turn this pokey little tram stop into a multiple operator bus hub! An easy solution would be to sacrifice some of the parking spaces to allow bus parking and room for buses to turn around but that wouldn't happen as the carpark might lose a few euro.

It is highly unlikely that any of the nabob's of the NTA would have frequent-flyer points on ANY Bus or Coach service they now administer.

The Westmoreland St and Red Cow locations remain,for me,two prime examples where the professional qualifications of the NTA's high-end management could be challenged in some form of open court.

Zero example of ANY appreciation of either Vehicular or Pedestrian safety combined with an equal ignorance of Road Traffic Laws.

The Red-Cow is possibly even worse,as it was Greenfield site,fully capable of being turned into a very functional Public Transport hub with P&R capability.

With the majority of the site being low-lying,it would have been reasonable to construct a multi-level car park,with the Red Line & Bus/Coach services running through at ground level.

What we currently have is one VERY clear example of our native inability/reluctance,to even attempt,at planning stuff...:mad:

AlekSmart

Grandad99 wrote: »

Balally Luas is a stone’s throw from the roundabout at the bottom of Wyckham Way, and is the Luas stop closest to and associated with the Dundrum Town Centre, why take in more traffic congestion heading down to Dundrums main street / Dundrum Luas then back up again, seems totally unnecessary.

Given John o Sullivan's highly astute decisions thus far,I would share some of the mystification at the choice of "Dundrum" Luas as the terminus for the new service.

Locals in the Dundrum/Milltown/Goatstown area tend to avoid the Main Street like the plague.
Most savvy folk doing Car/Tram interaction tend to plump for Balally,which has become the dei-facto new "Dundrum"

Opting for Balally would have recognized the reality that for MOST,the new Dundrum Town Centre IS Dundrum as well as avoiding the regular traffic "situations" to be found along the Sandyford Road side of the Centre.

One thing can be guaranteed...CityScape's Saturday & Sunday timings will most certainly be "advisory" unless they recognize reality and look to Balally instead.

Grandad99

lxflyer wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what coach type they use, given they are going to operate every 30 minutes all day long.

Saw a few over the weekend, they are indeed using the Cityscape name, the coaches I saw were 04 Setras, which I believe are ex Aircoach.

punisher5112

Grandad99 wrote: »

Saw a few over the weekend, they are indeed using the Cityscape name, the coaches I saw were 04 Setras, which I believe are ex Aircoach.

Its funny how the operator bought a ton of 2014 tri axle mercs and got huge tax savings as they were put on the new city tour they operated.

Now all these tri axles have been pulled and are running on the limerick route.

The stop they have in Dolier st is taking up 140, 46a and 145 bus stops as they are parking 2 to 3 coaches there at any one given time. Also a number of xpresso services are affected.



They are running a load of very noisey 2003 open tops on the tours around the city now and were brought to court as the colour was very similar to Dublin Bus tour green.
The now gold colour tour buses have also taken over the bus stop outside the Greshom Hotel, Aircoach, other tour coach operators use this and also the 123 & 44 which now can't get into the stop.

I would love to know who is the main planner for all this and how anyone thinks its ok and most of all safe.
Nassau st is also a nightmare with passengers left behind as private coach take over the db stops.



They are running 2004 setras that are ex aircoach on the Dundrum leg and have taken over the space in dundrum leaving not enough space for the 14 route as also Eircom park there vans inside the bus stops and bus only area.

LeChienMefiant

punisher5112 wrote: »

They are running 2004 setras that are ex aircoach on the Dundrum leg and have taken over the space in dundrum leaving not enough space for the 14 route as also Eircom park there vans inside the bus stops and bus only area.

There's a problem identified there, and it's not Dublin Coach.

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

The red cow luas stop is very difficult to get a bus into and around at the best of times due to the lack of space and many awkward turns and roundabouts.

The new bus Eireann tri axle coaches on routes 4, 7, and other BE routes that use this place plus JJ Kavanagh to/from Waterford and Clonmel as well as the Dublin coach double deckers to/from Portlaoise and buses to/from Waterford and now to/from Limerick/Kerry every half hour and a new route with buses every half hour to/from Dundrum means this stop will be a nightmare and only a matter if time before there is a serious accident there!

Have the people in the NTA that allow this ever seen this stop when Dublin coach have two or three of those double deckers parked up plus a couple of their Limerick/Waterford buses in the que and other buses are trying to get past them safely? Have they ever used buses?

They have really let public transport down by trying to turn this pokey little tram stop into a multiple operator bus hub! An easy solution would be to sacrifice some of the parking spaces to allow bus parking and room for buses to turn around but that wouldn't happen as the carpark might lose a few euro.

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is highly unlikely that any of the nabob's of the NTA would have frequent-flyer points on ANY Bus or Coach service they now administer.

The Westmoreland St and Red Cow locations remain,for me,two prime examples where the professional qualifications of the NTA's high-end management could be challenged in some form of open court.

Zero example of ANY appreciation of either Vehicular or Pedestrian safety combined with an equal ignorance of Road Traffic Laws.

The Red-Cow is possibly even worse,as it was Greenfield site,fully capable of being turned into a very functional Public Transport hub with P&R capability.

With the majority of the site being low-lying,it would have been reasonable to construct a multi-level car park,with the Red Line & Bus/Coach services running through at ground level.

What we currently have is one VERY clear example of our native inability/reluctance,to even attempt,at planning stuff...:mad:

Responsibility for approving the stopping points is with the Local Authority or land owner (if on private land), they would have the local knowledge not the people in the NTA, if they give approval for a stop why would the NTA query that?

LXFlyer

I think the issue frankly is that there are many stops that are simply not fit for purpose.

Also, combining coach operations with city bus operations at the same stops is a recipe for disaster.

And yes, Eircom staff have a lot to answer for at Dundrum.

But that's probably an issue for a separate thread.

LXFlyer

mccm wrote: »

Balally Luas is a stone’s throw from the roundabout at the bottom of Wyckham Way, and is the Luas stop closest to and associated with the Dundrum Town Centre, why take in more traffic congestion heading down to Dundrums main street / Dundrum Luas then back up again, seems totally unnecessary.

I would absolutely agree with this - going through Dundrum is madness, since my impression is that this service is principally aimed at offering connections from the M7 services to Dundrum Shopping Centre and the Airport at Red Cow, as opposed to offering a service from Dundrum to the Airport.

The route can get heavily congested at weekends especially. Balally would have made far more sense.

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Responsibility for approving the stopping points is with the Local Authority or land owner (if on private land), they would have the local knowledge not the people in the NTA, if they give approval for a stop why would the NTA query that?

AFAIK the NTA have planned the Red Cow Luas Stop as a transport hub for some time and have been active in positioning of stops there for many of the routes licensced to go along the Naas Road/Newlands Cross.

The x/4 & x7 stop there AND also at Newlands but the Naas/Kildare commuter services(126) do not, the Limerick(x12) does not stop there but stops at Newlands Cross.

Dublin Coach seem to have taken the place over as their own unofficial depot and when two or three of their double deckers are parked poorly as very often happens it is impossible for other buses to pass them safely due to the uneven road surface and the buses often "lean" into the traffic lane.

The NTA and local authority have failed miserable yet again by planning this transport hub without actually planning it!

punisher5112

Seems to me if you have money a lot of power and say also seems to come along with it.

devnull

The Local authorities are now responsible for bus stop permissions etc, this was transferred a while ago.

AlekSmart

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

There's a problem identified there, and it's not Dublin Coach.

That's for sure.

The main "Problem" as I see it lies with the choice of the current "Dundrum Village" terminus for the 14/Cityscape 161 44B etc.

It appears to have been viewed as a kind of cool looking "Interchange" when scribbled in as part of the William Dargan Overbridge construction phase.

I'm confident that back in Dargan's time it would have represented THE prime location for such a contrivance,however,a century and a half later,time has altered the landscape.

Some recogniscance was/is required of the FACT that Dundrum Town Centre is NOT the Centre of Dundrum,as Dargan might have seen it.

The combined attributes of access to/from the M50,coupled with one of the most unusually concieved by-passes around,are some aspects that Mr Dargan might well have admired and utilised...

Balally Luas should have merited a significant amount of Public Transport planning and research,not to mention the actual Dundrum Town Centre itself,which is remarkably free of any on-site Public Transport facility.

I remain confident that Cityscape will soon realize the potential that lies to the East of Dundrum and amend their terminus appropriately....It may take somewhat longer for others to recognize this....;)

LXFlyer

Well given that Dundrum is a fare zone closer to the city on LUAS than Balally, I'm not sure that too many people would be particularly happy for the bus terminus to be moved.

As a bus terminus for the 14 it's fine - it's just not big enough to factor in a coach operator as well, particularly when you add Eircom into the mix.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

The Limerick service will also be every 30 minutes from Westmoreland St with every second bus going to Ennis and the rest going to Tralee. Are they trying to put Irish Rail out of business on the Limerick & Tralee routes?

http://www.dublincoach.ie/downloads/DublinCoachM7KillarneyTralee.pdf

i'd doubt it. tralee seems to be one of the places where the train is more then competitive with road.

end of the road

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Responsibility for approving the stopping points is with the Local Authority or land owner (if on private land), they would have the local knowledge not the people in the NTA, if they give approval for a stop why would the NTA query that?

because one approving something should also have the responsibility to ensure what they approve can work and is safe.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

i'd doubt it. tralee seems to be one of the places where the train is more then competitive with road.

It might match or beat road transport on time but it won't beat buses on price and the Dublin Coach prices are lower than even Bus Eireann.

LXFlyer

Just to my post above, routing the 14 buses along Ballinteer Road is important as it serves a large residential market.

When there is traffic congestion around the Dundrum centre, that route is generally quicker than continuing along Wyckham Way.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Just to my post above, routing the 14 buses along Ballinteer Road is important as it serves a large residential market.

When there is traffic congestion around the Dundrum centre, that route is generally quicker than continuing along Wyckham Way.

Indeed,particularly with the assistance of the "Bus Lane NOT In Use" signs,which certainly does'nt help the customers of the Fast,Frequent DB Route 116...that's for sure

For a project which was one of the largest single retail site developments in the British Isles,the Dundrum Town Centre remains a VERY odd concoction indeed.....almost as if some of the pages blew away before the builders got them....a most oddly configured place

LXFlyer

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed,particularly with the assistance of the "Bus Lane NOT In Use" signs,which certainly does'nt help the customers of the Fast,Frequent DB Route 116...that's for sure

For a project which was one of the largest single retail site developments in the British Isles,the Dundrum Town Centre remains a VERY odd concoction indeed.....almost as if some of the pages blew away before the builders got them....a most oddly configured place

I still would not change the 14 at all Alek - the bus route serves residential communities along Ballinteer Road and then the Dundrum town centre, Dundrum Village and the LUAS, all of which are needed.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

I still would not change the 14 at all Alek - the bus route serves residential communities along Ballinteer Road and then the Dundrum town centre, Dundrum Village and the LUAS, all of which are needed.

The incorporation of the Balally Luas as a terminus would bring FAR more useage to the 14 at this end...as it stands it is VERY rare to have more than a single soul left after Dundrum Church.

Any potential for re-routing would leave those Balinteer connections in place,with only two stops being surrendered,one of which could be easily relocated to the East of the village X-Roads. (Mind you some realignment/traffic management of the X-Road would be required...which might well require the services of another William Dargan,and there are not too many of his type knocking about these parts today )

LXFlyer

AlekSmart wrote: »

The incorporation of the Balally Luas as a terminus would bring FAR more useage to the 14 at this end...as it stands it is VERY rare to have more than a single soul left after Dundrum Church.

Any potential for re-routing would leave those Balinteer connections in place,with only two stops being surrendered,one of which could be easily relocated to the East of the village X-Roads. (Mind you some realignment/traffic management of the X-Road would be required...which might well require the services of another William Dargan,and there are not too many of his type knocking about these parts today )

I am struggling with your logic Alek - why would you move the 14 terminus to a location that would require anyone connecting with the LUAS to and from town, and despite what you seem to think quite a few people do, to have to pay a higher LUAS fare? Balally is a zone further out from the city than Dundrum?


You seem to be suggesting continuing as is right now as far as the crossroads in Dundrum and then turning right onto Sandyford Road? That in my view would be madness, as the traffic on the Main Street is never as bad as that on Sandyford Road between the crossroads and Wyckham Way (as Dublin Coach will find out!!).


On either count, I don't see any merit - why change something that ain't broke?

Csalem

CityScape Setra in Dundrum today on the 750 to Dublin Airport. New bus stop beside the Dublin Bus one also visible:
https://flic.kr/p/y64xZL

Tow

The road outside Balally Luas stop is AFAIK private property, the clampers are around every few hours. Pulling a coach up outside to collect/drop people is not going to happen, unless palms are crossed with silver.

But, in any event they are not starting early enough in the morning from Dundrum to be useful.