My running style (video) - any tips.

karltimber

Hi,

At the moment I run for pure fitness and the odd dualathon, but never really concerned about times, just competing. Cycle a lot too. Age 45.

Goal for 2016 - start doing triathlons, with an end goal of 20km runs.
Currently doing 5km in 17mins odd (no watch yet), and 7km runs.
My cadence is about 90. I will use a plan to push my running to the 20km goal.

So, instead of asking for advice I got my son to record me running today.
Put in HD, and there is slow motion in the second part.

any tips on my running, to push to 20km runs ?

Thanks

rom

If you would like someone who knows what they are talking about to tell you about your forum then you could register for one of these. She will record you and give you tips/drills on what to do. http://www.catherinamckiernan.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=3&tabid=877

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPNIbVweexc

PS you know youtube can do image stabilization. Really I think you could have mixed in the rocky music and had a brick in each hand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33u_EHLI3w

Murph_D

I'm no expert. Heel striker, but that puts you in good company.

Tom__jnr2

Murph_D wrote: »

I'm no expert. Heel striker, but that puts you in good company.

Try to video yourself again when run faster or even do few sprints.

No expert but your hips a bit low.

Fair play for sharing. Must do the same.

Myles Splitz

karltimber wrote: »

Hi,

At the moment I run for pure fitness and the odd dualathon, but never really concerned about times, just competing. Cycle a lot too. Age 45.

Goal for 2016 - start doing triathlons, with an end goal of 20km runs.
Currently doing 5km in 17mins odd (no watch yet), and 7km runs.
My cadence is about 90. I will use a plan to push my running to the 20km goal.

So, instead of asking for advice I got my son to record me running today.
Put in HD, and there is slow motion in the second part.

any tips on my running, to push to 20km runs ?

Thanks

Were you fresh when filming this? (i.e start of training)

Few observations:

- Tight hip flexors which are limiting your knee drive
- Limited hip extension meaning you are unable to open up your stride at higher speeds without risk of overstriding
- Look to be checking gait regularly. Were you actually running normal of trying to focus on form. Looking down at feet which will create poor movement patterns.

Having said all this I think you are over analyzing what is needed for improvement is simply time on your feet. Though these things could make improvements simple fact is that the muscular endurance to complement your cycling aerobic fitness will yield benefits. Keep the majority of runs at about 60-70% effort and build the miles and you will have no problem getting to 20km.

karltimber

Hi Myles.

Yes - start of my run indeed.

- Hip flexors - very observant. when I exercise a lot I get lower back dull pain (more an annoyance than a pain) but over the last few months have been stretching more and using a foam roller and things are way better. will look at HF exercises too.
- Can you expand on Limited hip extension - should I be moving/rotating them more ?
- Gait checking - not normally no - under pressure during filming

When you say keep to 60% effort - do you mean not to try do 17min 5k's each time I run ? but extend the distance over time

Thanks & really appreciate it,

K

Myles Splitz

karltimber wrote: »

Hi Myles.

Yes - start of my run indeed.

- Hip flexors - very observant. when I exercise a lot I get lower back dull pain (more an annoyance than a pain) but over the last few months have been stretching more and using a foam roller and things are way better. will look at HF exercises too.
- Can you expand on Limited hip extension - should I be moving/rotating them more ?
- Gait checking - not normally no - under pressure during filming

When you say keep to 60% effort - do you mean not to try do 17min 5k's each time I run ? but extend the distance over time

Thanks & really appreciate it,

K

With regards the observations made there is no quick fix to these and are fairly common in many runners.

With regards the hip flexors this is fairly common with a cycling background. Effectively in the short term you need to increase flexibility and mobility here. Strength of hip extensors is also and issue as they are not strong enough to counteract the hip flexion muscle shortness

The below is a good example of a) on the left what we are aiming for and b) on the right what limited range of motion in hip area can look like



Three steps to improving this are

1) mobility and flexibility - We have to be physically able to move the hips in the manner which we are aiming for
2) stability - We have to have the strength and muscle endurance to sustain this sort of movement
3) Awareness - we have to train our body to do it (i.e drills)

Normally the third is seen as the solution to improved form without prepping the body for change.

In terms of effort for a 17 min runner easy pace running should be in the 8 min per mile bracket range for easy runs.

RayCun

next time tell your kid to be alongside you, not behind you

chiming in on the hips thing - you're leaning forward from your waist, and your arse is following along behind. Before you start running, stand up tall and push your hips forward, so your forward lean is from the ankles not the waist.

you could also do some high knees drills during your warm-up, and try to maintain the hip lift as you run

and quit the triathlons :P

dna_leri

Myles Splitz wrote: »

In terms of effort for a 17 min runner easy pace running should be in the 8 min per mile bracket range for easy runs.

I agree 90% with Myles, except for the final bit above.

For an 18 min 5K runner, your easy runs should be in the range 6:50-7:50 min/mi; for 17 min 6:30-7:30.
See https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ for more on paces.

If you are looking a a general primer on running, McMillan's 6-step training system covers all the basics. See https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/tips

Myles Splitz

dna_leri wrote: »

I agree 90% with Myles, except for the final bit above.

For an 18 min 5K runner, your easy runs should be in the range 6:50-7:50 min/mi; for 17 min 6:30-7:30.
See https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ for more on paces.

If you are looking a a general primer on running, McMillan's 6-step training system covers all the basics. See https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/tips

Personally I don't agree with McMillan's paces and I think they are a good too aggressive for a distance runner coming from limited running background (Just had a look myself and the easy runs would have me running between MP and top end of easy range)

Firedance

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Personally I don't agree with McMillan's paces and I think they are a good too aggressive for a distance runner coming from limited running background (Just had a look myself and the easy runs would have me running between MP and top end of easy range)

where (or how) do you recommend is best for calculating paces?

Myles Splitz

General guideline I usually would go by race results depending most recent distance

5k + 2.30-3 min per mile
MP + 90 sec to 2 min per mile

which alot would deem as slow but for the purpose of these runs it is generally adequate to provide stimulus while still allowing recovery for harder sessions.

(Again person opinion and not a general consensus as McMillan has been a go to for many for years)

dna_leri

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Personally I don't agree with McMillan's paces and I think they are a good too aggressive for a distance runner coming from limited running background (Just had a look myself and the easy runs would have me running between MP and top end of easy range)

Assuming you are using it correctly, a 3-hr marathoner would be doing easy runs at 7-8 min/mi and long runs up to 8:18 with a 4-hr marathon easy pace 9-10 min/mi and long up to 10:25.
What would you do?

Myles Splitz

dna_leri wrote: »

Assuming you are using it correctly, a 3-hr marathoner would be doing easy runs at 7-8 min/mi and long runs up to 8:18 with a 4-hr marathon easy pace 9-10 min/mi and long up to 10:25.
What would you do?

A number of the marathon athletes I work with in or around the 2.55-3.10 hour mark would usually run easy running paces of about 7.50-8.30 depending on their end of that spectrum.

Likewise sub 4 athletes would generally be around the 9.50-10.30 range.

At these ranges there is accounting for cardiac drift in the longer runs also so generally the Long runs come into this general range also

There would be steady state runs which come into play however again this would be alot more conservative figures (approx mid point between MP and Easy Effort which generally works out at about the top end of McMillan's easy pace effort looking at a sample there of a number of athletes) but these would be treated as workout's.

Firedance

Myles Splitz wrote: »

A number of the marathon athletes I work with in or around the 2.55-3.10 hour mark would usually run easy running paces of about 7.50-8.30 depending on their end of that spectrum.

Likewise sub 4 athletes would generally be around the 9.50-10.30 range.

At these ranges there is accounting for cardiac drift in the longer runs also so generally the Long runs come into this general range also

There would be steady state runs which come into play however again this would be alot more conservative figures (approx mid point between MP and Easy Effort which generally works out at about the top end of McMillan's easy pace effort looking at a sample there of a number of athletes) but these would be treated as workout's.

So slower than McMillan, if you find that difficult to do (form suffers at slower paces) what are your options?

Myles Splitz

Firedance wrote: »

So slower than McMillan, if you find that difficult to do (form suffers at slower paces) what are your options?

It can take a bit of time to adjust if you are conditioned to running at particular paces but like with exposing body to pace increased your body will adapt. Form shouldn't hugely suffer as knee drive and decreased group contact time can take similar effort.

However to offset this and maintain stride efficiency strides and hill sprints can be used for efficiency and neuro-muscular programming.

pconn062

This is why I believe HR is a better guide for effort on easy runs than pace. Get a proper test done and get the zones, and stick to them. There have been days where I can run in the same HR bracket and the pace can vary from 7.10-8.10 a mile, depending on weather, time of day, overall fatigue. Pace doesn't really matter on easy days, just make sure the effort is right.