Stock bull with laminitis

grazeaway

Was chatting to the sister over last few days as she was worried about the stock bull, she reckoned he wasn't doing the business. He seemed a bit stiff going, and as the folks are away on hols she rang me. Young limo bull turned 2 in the spring and got him at Easter.

Anyway I told her to check his legs in case there was a stone or something in there. She noticed his toes were curled so brought him in and one of the uncles called up to check him. When she got him into yard you could plainly see they were turned and curled not as noticeable out in the field. I was at home a few weeks ago and didn't really notice anything wrong especially as he jump a fence and bulled a heifer in a different paddock.

Any way looks like the bull has lamintious, never heard of it in cattle but have seen in it in horses and ponys. He has lost a fair bit of condition in the last week. Dad got back last night and reckons he is fukced as even if they do manage to pare them and get him eating again it ll be back. The fella we bought him from had them pared before he came so that's only in the space of a few months.

Waiting hear what they are going to do looks like he ll be off to the factory before he goes back even more and they ll have to take a hit on him. Looking to get a loan of another to clear up the last of the cows.

Never seen this before espically in a young animal, is this common? Bull has been in the fields with the cows since he came and before that was on slats for the winter.

smokey-fitz

grazeaway wrote: »

Was chatting to the sister over last few days as she was worried about the stock bull, she reckoned he wasn't doing the business. He seemed a bit stiff going, and as the folks are away on hols she rang me. Young limo bull turned 2 in the spring and got him at Easter.

Anyway I told her to check his legs in case there was a stone or something in there. She noticed his toes were curled so brought him in and one of the uncles called up to check him. When she got him into yard you could plainly see they were turned and curled not as noticeable out in the field. I was at home a few weeks ago and didn't really notice anything wrong especially as he jump a fence and bulled a heifer in a different paddock.

Any way looks like the bull has lamintious, never heard of it in cattle but have seen in it in horses and ponys. He has lost a fair bit of condition in the last week. Dad got back last night and reckons he is fukced as even if they do manage to pare them and get him eating again it ll be back. The fella we bought him from had them pared before he came so that's only in the space of a few months.

Waiting hear what they are going to do looks like he ll be off to the factory before he goes back even more and they ll have to take a hit on him. Looking to get a loan of another to clear up the last of the cows.

Never seen this before espically in a young animal, is this common? Bull has been in the fields with the cows since he came and before that was on slats for the winter.

That's a balls.. I have heard of this with limo's that are pushed with a lot of meal, I sent mine to the factory a few months ago because he was turning wicked, he was only 2 1/2 yrs old but his toes were curling in too, and he was getting lame on the slats last winter. A friend also had problems with his limo's feet at a young age.

If you only have the bull 5 or 6 months you might have a comeback with the breeder. Some breeders will replace a faulty bull so look into that before you send to the factory. Someone else on here might know a bit more.

whelan2

how many cows is he with? young bulls feet can get very tender. If you rest him up for a few months he should be fine. Is it just his back feet ?

patsy_mccabe

I bought a Purebred limousine heifer a few years back that was a bit tender on her feet and hooves curving a bit. I just put it down to too much meal feeding before the sale to fill her out as it as she was tall and rangy.
Well, she's perfect now and her hooves have hardened up. I'd give the bull time and chances are he will come right.

Mad4simmental

Had to factory a two year old blonde last year. His feet went very soft you could nearly stick your finger into them.

Gave him vitasal I think it's called and every chance we could but in the end we hadro put him out of his misery. He was a dear fcuker to.

He is worth getting a good pair/foot man out to have a look first before his little trip away.

_Brian

We had a continental heifer two years ago. 15 months old and her feet were rotten. Had a fella out and he said it was a breeding problem - inbreeding or similar and said she would come to nothing. Couldn't get any condition onto her at all.

grazeaway

Maybe meal was an issue where he was before but he has been out with the cows all spring.
Dad had a local lad that does bulls hoofs and the vet out today look at him and they both said the same, fella we bought him from called over too and is going get him another bull to see out the breeding season.
He has been running with 40 cows and then got 6 heifers in June. Was working away fine up to lately.
It's all 4 legs. Poor fella will be off tomorrow I'd say as the hoof lad reckons paring him might cause the hoof to bleed. We were hoping that paring him back might get him to put on condition again.
Gutted cos he is a smashing animal and quite as well. Sister has no issues with him.

Base price

OP - I am not having a go at you but I think running a young continental bull in his first year of service, with 40 cows is reckless.
I would not expect a 2 yo bull to "watch/herd 40 cows and 6 heifers, let alone bull them. His legs, condition etc would be walked off him sniffing/checking the ladies.
However, I do agree that overfeeding meal of young PBR stock can trigger laminates.

whelan2

grazeaway wrote: »

Maybe meal was an issue where he was before but he has been out with the cows all spring.
Dad had a local lad that does bulls hoofs and the vet out today look at him and they both said the same, fella we bought him from called over too and is going get him another bull to see out the breeding season.
He has been running with 40 cows and then got 6 heifers in June. Was working away fine up to lately.
It's all 4 legs. Poor fella will be off tomorrow I'd say as the hoof lad reckons paring him might cause the hoof to bleed. We were hoping that paring him back might get him to put on condition again.
Gutted cos he is a smashing animal and quite as well. Sister has no issues with him.

if he has good breeding etc I would rest him up, an animal like that would be doing a serious amount of walking after 40 cows. Also after he serves a cow you probably have the guts of 600 kg walloping down on the ground, thus making the front feet sore too. He needs a rest. If he has lost condition you are probably not going to get much for him in the factory anyway.

grazeaway

He may be ruining with 46 cows and heifers but only 35 of them have come in season ( maybe less) as we have a long breeding season as we have a mix of spring and autumn calvers. Also some of the cows have been culled or will be culled this year so probably looking at calving down maybe 38-40 next year. So it's not like he is working all day every day. The last 4 bulls we had were all younger then him and did roughly the same number of cows without any issues. The land at home is good too and there is only field that he would have been that could be considered hilly so it's not like he was on heavy hilly ground.

We had him inside a few weeks ago she I was home to separate calves and none of us spotted anything odd the either.

My dad said the breeder was stunned he could figure it out (or wasn't saying). I saw his mother and father at the breeders when we bought him, father is about 6/7 now and is still serving 30-40 cows, mother is a fine strong cow too. He has a half brother serving a nearby suckler herd too in his second year and running with 50 cows with no issues.

yosemitesam1

@op biotin (b vitamin) and zinc are worth supplementing to maximize bone growth if you keep him

Future Farmer

grazeaway wrote: »

Was chatting to the sister over last few days as she was worried about the stock bull, she reckoned he wasn't doing the business. He seemed a bit stiff going, and as the folks are away on hols she rang me. Young limo bull turned 2 in the spring and got him at Easter.

Anyway I told her to check his legs in case there was a stone or something in there. She noticed his toes were curled so brought him in and one of the uncles called up to check him. When she got him into yard you could plainly see they were turned and curled not as noticeable out in the field. I was at home a few weeks ago and didn't really notice anything wrong especially as he jump a fence and bulled a heifer in a different paddock.

Any way looks like the bull has lamintious, never heard of it in cattle but have seen in it in horses and ponys. He has lost a fair bit of condition in the last week. Dad got back last night and reckons he is fukced as even if they do manage to pare them and get him eating again it ll be back. The fella we bought him from had them pared before he came so that's only in the space of a few months.

Waiting hear what they are going to do looks like he ll be off to the factory before he goes back even more and they ll have to take a hit on him. Looking to get a loan of another to clear up the last of the cows.

Never seen this before espically in a young animal, is this common? Bull has been in the fields with the cows since he came and before that was on slats for the winter.

Bull needs to rest up (or be killed), but your cows....

Are you all spring calving? You need to scan or pregnancy test asap.

Perhaps CIDRs in the cows and ai with sh gestation bulls would be better than letting out another stock bull - more compact (May calves), if you started them today you could have c 55-60% in calf in 10 days.

grazeaway

Future Farmer wrote: »

Bull needs to rest up (or be killed), but your cows....

Are you all spring calving? You need to scan or pregnancy test asap.

Perhaps CIDRs in the cows and ai with sh gestation bulls would be better than letting out another stock bull - more compact (May calves), if you started them today you could have c 55-60% in calf in 10 days.

No not all spring calvers majority (25) calf jan -mar about 5 in May/ June and rest August-sept (had a big issue with fertility in the very wet summers of 08/09 and 12 and we're looking to move the late calvers off but had to cull others instead)

The majority should be in calf it's only the 2 that came bulling in the last fortnight that we are worried about. Herd is checked at least twice a day and the hardy young bulls will follow anything in heat around the place. My dad reckons anything that was in heat was bulled as he hasn't seen any of the cows coming again. Like I say it's just the last few that we are worried about.

They were tempted to AI the last few but as the bredder is dropping over a fella today it will be good to see how he gets on.

whelan2

grazeaway wrote: »

He may be ruining with 46 cows and heifers but only 35 of them have come in season ( maybe less) as we have a long breeding season as we have a mix of spring and autumn calvers. Also some of the cows have been culled or will be culled this year so probably looking at calving down maybe 38-40 next year. So it's not like he is working all day every day. The last 4 bulls we had were all younger then him and did roughly the same number of cows without any issues. The land at home is good too and there is only field that he would have been that could be considered hilly so it's not like he was on heavy hilly ground.

We had him inside a few weeks ago she I was home to separate calves and none of us spotted anything odd the either.

My dad said the breeder was stunned he could figure it out (or wasn't saying). I saw his mother and father at the breeders when we bought him, father is about 6/7 now and is still serving 30-40 cows, mother is a fine strong cow too. He has a half brother serving a nearby suckler herd too in his second year and running with 50 cows with no issues.

its not just a matter of serving the cow thoughm he could be following them for a day before/after they come in heat. Have seen it here before, rest will cure it and a pain killer maybe from the vet

smokey-fitz

If the vet advised to kill the bull, so did the hoof man. I'd be inclined to go with that. No point in resting him if they advised the opposite.

Is the breeder replacing the bull for you? Or is it just to see out the breeding season? You don't have the bull long so he should take some of the hit also.

ganmo

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

@op biotin (b vitamin) and zinc are worth supplementing to maximize bone growth if you keep him

vitamin h
b vitamins are different

grazeaway

ganmo wrote: »

vitamin h
b vitamins are different

Bull is gone to the factory, weighted hi on the way out there only weighted about 480kg, stunned and gutted.

milkprofit

he was probaly on a lot of meal before u bought him and u took him off meal too quick same as giving him too much meal too quick

grazeaway

milkprofit wrote: »

he was probaly on a lot of meal before u bought him and u took him off meal too quick same as giving him too much meal too quick

Must be the case, he got no meal here just straight into grass. Was on silage when we saw him.

Expensive lesson to learn I suppose.