Winter/skid control training

colm_c

It's now looking like I'll be driving in eastern Europe around December/Jan.

Given the weather and road conditions that will likely be there, I'd like to do some winter/skid control training/practice to get more comfortable. I will be in a hire car rather than my own car, so should have winter tyres fitted.

Anyone got any recommendations/experience of courses/training to do?

Here's some I've come across during my googling:

BMW winter training (doesn't mention skid control and unlikely to be driving a BMW or RWD hire car)
http://www.bmw.ie/ie/en/owners/winter/winterdrivertraining.html

Skid control training (looks a bit more interesting although not specifically targeted at winter/snow driving)
http://www.leinsterdrivingcampus.ie/index.php/learn-to-drive-dublin-lessons/skid-control-ireland/advanced

kirving

I did the one in leinster driving campus, bought as a gift for me. Just the skid control now, but not the advanced driving section. To be honest, your time in the car is limited, but I still enjoyed it.

You do maybe half a dozen ABS braking manoeuvres, which were helpful in re-enforcing the fact that you can steer under max braking and let the car worry about the rest, and build a bit of muscle memory which might come into play if you have to avoid another car. I would say most people panic, and hold the wheel tight and brace for an impact which may otherwise have been avoided.

The second half is on a circular skidpan covers in this greasy liquid. Again, maybe 15 minutes max int he car, going through understeer and oversteer which were good to experience.

Nothing beats messing around on private land in your own car in the snow or whatever, but this certainly helped.

About a week or two after I had done it, I lost the back of the car badly in snow at maybe 50kph on a sweeping bend. All the cars in front of me were fine but maybe compacted the snow to a point where I was on much slippier stuff. I just about recovered it and I'm 100% sure that I avoided an accident directly because of the course the week before.

CiniO

What countries will you be driving?
My advice - once you get the car there and there are real winter conditions on the road, just find a big space (old unused big parking, old airport, etc) and spend few hours training.
You might get some books beforehand to get the theory right, and then just practice it.
Accelerations, turn, skids, etc.
Just try to intentionally get car out of control and try to regain the control.
You might train like that all night and it won't be enough, but the more the better.

I estimate, that I've spend at least couple hundred hours training such things mainly on the snow, and I feel pretty confident on vehicle control in such conditions.
But it cost me a lot of time and lots of money - all was worth though.

colm_c

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If your going to be worried get a AWD car with decent winter tyres. With modern Stability+Traction+AWD (with decent tyres) you will be surprised how much you can do even in snow.

Skid pans are useful to get some practice in over-steer situations but unless you practice it a bit in a situation where you need the training you will forget it/panic. The idea is doing so much practice that it becomes second nature, you wont get that in a one hour session. That said it is no harm doing the course plus its great fun.

Remember the basics:

1) Drive for the conditions
2) Assume everybody else on the road around you is an idiot
3) If things get really sideways concentrate on the steering first. Don't start thinking you are Carlos Sainz with heel-toeing and all sorts of fancy stuff. Get the car under control first.

1+2 I already do this every day, I think it's not having any sideways experience and panicing is my only real fear.

I think I might do the course to at least understand what I should be doing.

Very few (and expensive) options to hire a AWD car.

CiniO wrote: »

What countries will you be driving?
My advice - once you get the car there and there are real winter conditions on the road, just find a big space (old unused big parking, old airport, etc) and spend few hours training.
You might get some books beforehand to get the theory right, and then just practice it.
Accelerations, turn, skids, etc.
Just try to intentionally get car out of control and try to regain the control.
You might train like that all night and it won't be enough, but the more the better.

I estimate, that I've spend at least couple hundred hours training such things mainly on the snow, and I feel pretty confident on vehicle control in such conditions.
But it cost me a lot of time and lots of money - all was worth though.

Going to be in Austria & Slovakia, I've been before (as a passenger) so kind know what to expect.

It's going to be a mix of motorway/national roads/city and rural driving. The one I thing that I'm most likely to have issues with is the rural driving where there hasn't been any gritting/treating of the roads and there's some hills/unknown road surfaces.

Funny enough, I've never seen any locals crash or skid in the snow, second nature by now I guess.

I don't expect to master skid control, it's just knowing more than I do now and not panicing if something happens.

Redderneck

Lived in Siberia for a few years. It's your money so far be it fro me to say don't waste it - becasue any additional driver training is a good thing and only you can make the value/not call for your own circumstances - but I wouldn't bother.

Your car will have winter tyres fitted by law. So will everyone elses. It is VERY unusual to find many driver cutting the corner on this point in Eastern Europe. Main roads will be well treated.

Drive away. Just remember the obvious things such as allowing more distance, smoothly through the gears & corners, gentle braking etc.

Unless you plan on hooning, in which case yeah, get the training.

I usually say to someone who'll be driving on 'the other side' to get themselves an autobox as it removes one element from the thinking process and makes for less stress, but for heavy winter driving I preferred to drive a manual. A tiptronic type autobox used like a manual might be good compromise. Handy enough to use engine braking betimes. I've no idea if this is 'by the book' sound advice, but I found it worked for me.

CiniO

Redderneck wrote: »

Your car will have winter tyres fitted by law. So will everyone elses.

Very few countries have it required by law to have winter tyres.
While indeed most rental cars will be equipped with winter tyres, there might be people on the road driving without them.

Main roads will be well treated.

They will be, but only if weather pemits.
During heavy snowfall, there's no chance they will be able to treat all the roads instantly, so you might be driving on national main roads or motortway on surface completely covered in snow.

Drive away. Just remember the obvious things such as allowing more distance, smoothly through the gears & corners, gentle braking etc.

Unless you plan on hooning, in which case yeah, get the training.

Training will be handy in any case.
While driving on snow or ice, chances of skidding are very likely sooner or later and only way to prevent from crashing might be a training you do earlier.

Redderneck

Austria require winter tyres to be fitted 1 Nov - 15 Apr. No messin'...!

Slovakia - quick web trawl shows less certainty. Some sites state no laws apply. Others that it's a legal requirement to carry winter tyres 1 Nov - 1 April and that it is mandatory to use them when roads are signposted as their being required. Others that it's snowchains which need to be carried/used. A bit of an odd one that. Must be some Irish blood in them over there.

CiniO

Redderneck wrote: »

Austria require winter tyres to be fitted 1 Nov - 15 Apr. No messin'...!

They do, but it only applies on roads covered in snow or ice (so it's not illegal to drive on summer tyres in winter time if road is just dry or wet).
Also when road is covered in snow or ice, instead of having winter tyres, you can use snow chains.

Slovakia - quick web trawl shows less certainty. Some sites state no laws apply. Others that it's a legal requirement to carry winter tyres 1 Nov - 1 April and that it is mandatory to use them when roads are signposted as their being required. Others that it's snowchains which need to be carried/used. A bit of an odd one that. Must be some Irish blood in them over there.

Looks like they are mandatory - but under the same condition - only on roads covered in snow or ice.
Must be a new thing, as this didn't used to be the case in Slovakia.