Battery Warranty

John T Carroll

The battery packed up in a friends 2005 BMW four years ago and the AA service man sold him a new Bosch battery for around €125, two years later this battery went completely dead and he called out tha AA (again) who installed a new Bosch battery in the car after carrying out various tests on the Alternator etc. The AA guy told my friend that the warranty was now only for the remainder of the original four year warranty or just under two years.
Is this legally correct?.

9935452

John T Carroll wrote: »

The battery packed up in a friends 2005 BMW four years ago and the AA service man sold him a new Bosch battery for around €125, two years later this battery went completely dead and he called out tha AA (again) who installed a new Bosch battery in the car after carrying out various tests on the Alternator etc. The AA guy told my friend that the warranty was now only for the remainder of the original four year warranty or just under two years.
Is this legally correct?.

I think it is .
The warranty is on the first battery that was sold , not the replacement battery

mickdw

Yes, you only have warranty cover for the original warranty period.

John T Carroll

Yes, I suppose if one thinks it through then it makes sense when you(s) put it that way.

colm_mcm

I might be wrong here, but I think BMWs have pretty complicated charging system and the battery needs to be paired to the car when it's installed. If this isn't done then the battery doesn't last as long.

John T Carroll

colm_mcm wrote: »

I might be wrong here, but I think BMWs have pretty complicated charging system and the battery needs to be paired to the car when it's installed. If this isn't done then the battery doesn't last as long.

Thats very interesting, I will pass that on to him as he gets the car dealership serviced since new, I wonder would the "mismatch" show up on their diagnostics. I was present when the AA replaced the original battery, the AH, CCA etc were all identical on the replacement battery and the AA guy seemed pretty knowledgeable, I dont recall him mentioning anything re the pairing.
I see that alot of new cars now have "battery control modules" that look at ambient temperatures etc and even shut off the charging system under certain driving conditions.... all in the interests of economy, whatever about battery longevity, I'd imagine that these batteries would possibly require pairing as well?.

9935452

John T Carroll wrote: »

Thats very interesting, I will pass that on to him as he gets the car dealership serviced since new, I wonder would the "mismatch" show up on their diagnostics. I was present when the AA replaced the original battery, the AH, CCA etc were all identical on the replacement battery and the AA guy seemed pretty knowledgeable, I dont recall him mentioning anything re the pairing.
I see that alot of new cars now have "battery control modules" that look at ambient temperatures etc and even shut off the charging system under certain driving conditions.... all in the interests of economy, whatever about battery longevity, I'd imagine that these batteries would possibly require pairing as well?.

For audis its meant to be the same, You have to code the battery into the car
buy a genuine battery and this has a code on it and this has to be coded to the car by main dealer

John T Carroll

9935452 wrote: »

For audis its meant to be the same, You have to code the battery into the car
buy a genuine battery and this has a code on it and this has to be coded to the car by main dealer

In view of the above, can just battery disconnection cause problems as well?
If one was doing a planned battery change (not normally the case of course) I wonder if another 12V battery supply was connected before changing batteries, would the ECU or whatever still think that the original battery was connected.
I assume that a "genuine" battery can be purchased elsewhere apart from the main dealers.

mickdw

John T Carroll wrote: »

In view of the above, can just battery disconnection cause problems as well?
If one was doing a planned battery change (not normally the case of course) I wonder if another 12V battery supply was connected before changing batteries, would the ECU or whatever still think that the original battery was connected.
I assume that a "genuine" battery can be purchased elsewhere apart from the main dealers.

Not sure if the coding would be required on that car but seeing as the battery didn't last, it's quite possibly the issue.
The idea is that the new battery will be more efficient as charging then an adding one so telling the car that a new battery is in place and telling it the battery specs allows the system to operate at its most efficient.
I see that you can select a whole rang of batteries on my audi and most of these branded batteries have codes as far as I'm aware.
If you are stuck needing a genuine battery for coding, I'm told you can buy a battery with the correct spec then take the codes off the original battery but just change the serial number alittle.

bmstuff

If a new battery is installed in those recent cars such as BMW E60 etc, one it has to match the original specs, if not, specs need to be as close as possible, or new specs coded in.
Two, the new battery has to be registered, so the recycling charge is reset. If the registration does not happen, then what happens is the car thinks you still have the old battery in, and will overcharge the battery. As a result, the new battery will only between 2 to 3 years due to overcharging.
This has been the case since 2002 in BMW cars such as e65, e66, e60, e61, e63, e64 etc, so any half decent mechanic should know that

9935452

John T Carroll wrote: »

In view of the above, can just battery disconnection cause problems as well?
If one was doing a planned battery change (not normally the case of course) I wonder if another 12V battery supply was connected before changing batteries, would the ECU or whatever still think that the original battery was connected.
I assume that a "genuine" battery can be purchased elsewhere apart from the main dealers.

The genuine battery comes with a code on it so this needs to be codes to the car.
The basics that i understand is the car /battery are intelligent . the car monitors the battery state and will know when a battery is failing and will alert you. #change the battery and the car doesnt know this it still thinks the battery is failing and will reject the new good battery

John T Carroll

9935452 wrote: »

The genuine battery comes with a code on it so this needs to be codes to the car.
The basics that i understand is the car /battery are intelligent . the car monitors the battery state and will know when a battery is failing and will alert you. #change the battery and the car doesnt know this it still thinks the battery is failing and will reject the new good battery

The "old fashioned" car alternator had/has a voltage regulator which maintained (on, at least all my VWs) around 14.3 V under all operating conditions and gave excellent battery life, all, apart from one (a 1963 6V Beetle) gave over 10 year battery life, one battery, which was replaced purely as a precaution recently gave almost 13 years. However times move on (and so must we) and electrical loads have increased dramatically over the years for various reasons, heated seats etc and car makers must maximise their profits as well, ie. by installing a big alternator, but as small as possible, ditto with battery capacity, they must also maximise fuel economy, so with all this in mind they are/have replaced the simple voltage regulator with computerised control which can give a voltage output of up to 16V depending on electrical load and battery terminal voltage.
However, I must admit, that I never realised that the condition of the replacement battery was or should be taken into account (and the need for battery coding/adaptation) apart from monitoring its terminal voltage, but the longer I live, the more I learn.
To put the whole thing in context maybe, the alternator on most cars, depending on model, can have an output of at least 110 Amps at 14V, or 1.5 Kw,
a 1956 VW Beetle gave 160 watts or 0.16 Kw, from a dynamo of course.

John T Carroll

9935452 wrote: »

The genuine battery comes with a code on it so this needs to be codes to the car.
The basics that i understand is the car /battery are intelligent . the car monitors the battery state and will know when a battery is failing and will alert you. #change the battery and the car doesnt know this it still thinks the battery is failing and will reject the new good battery

You might find this USA link interesting even though its not a VAG system.

http://www.bimmerscan.com/bmw-intelligent-battery-sensor-ibs/

9935452

John T Carroll wrote: »

You might find this USA link interesting even though its not a VAG system.

http://www.bimmerscan.com/bmw-intelligent-battery-sensor-ibs/

Definately interesting.
Its scary how modern cars have become, what they are monitoring .
My own car keeps telling me the battery level is low with the ignition on and the engine off, it turns off the radio itself to save power.
The plus point is if its coded correctly the car should know before the battery fails and needs replacing

John T Carroll

mickdw wrote: »

Not sure if the coding would be required on that car but seeing as the battery didn't last, it's quite possibly the issue.
The idea is that the new battery will be more efficient as charging then an adding one so telling the car that a new battery is in place and telling it the battery specs allows the system to operate at its most efficient.
I see that you can select a whole rang of batteries on my audi and most of these branded batteries have codes as far as I'm aware.
If you are stuck needing a genuine battery for coding, I'm told you can buy a battery with the correct spec then take the codes off the original battery but just change the serial number alittle.

My friends 05 BMW is a 320I and doesn't have the IBS, main dealer told him no coding required on this model, he said there was an 07 318I in there for servicing as well and this didn't have any IBS either. So would everyone be happy to say that no coding is necessary (or cant be done) on non IBS cars??.
The battery on the 05 car was installed on 18/3/2014 and replaced the battery which failed under warranty 2 years after its installation. I just now took a few Voltage readings with my multi tester. Terminal Voltage 12.36V with car stopped for 4 hrs.
Checks at Idling Speed only: Nothing on:14.15V. Main Beams only:14.16V. Main Beams+Heated Rear Screen: 14.12V. Main Beams+Heated rear Screen+Heater Blower at full Speed: 14.2V. These readings would appear to be reasonable enough so there is really no good reason why the first replacement battery packed up, I had taken just one reading from this (second) replacement battery on the 18/3/2014 and it was 14.22V at idling speed with nothing on and I had that reading written on the back of his receipt.

9935452

John T Carroll wrote: »

My friends 05 BMW is a 320I and doesn't have the IBS, main dealer told him no coding required on this model, he said there was an 07 318I in there for servicing as well and this didn't have any IBS either. So would everyone be happy to say that no coding is necessary (or cant be done) on non IBS cars??.
The battery on the 05 car was installed on 18/3/2014 and replaced the battery which failed under warranty 2 years after its installation. I just now took a few Voltage readings with my multi tester. Terminal Voltage 12.36V with car stopped for 4 hrs.
Checks at Idling Speed only: Nothing on:14.15V. Main Beams only:14.16V. Main Beams+Heated Rear Screen: 14.12V. Main Beams+Heated rear Screen+Heater Blower at full Speed: 14.2V. These readings would appear to be reasonable enough so there is really no good reason why the first replacement battery packed up, I had taken just one reading from this (second) replacement battery on the 18/3/2014 and it was 14.22V at idling speed with nothing on and I had that reading written on the back of his receipt.

The 12.36 reading would be the only one to worry me a bit . 12 v battery yeah but a new /good battery gives out 12.8 v . just measure my car after being stopped for 6 hours and thats what it reads.
13.8 to 14.4 is the normal range for an alternator, it just means that it is charging correctly. if you revved the engine this will change slightlly

John T Carroll

9935452 wrote: »

The 12.36 reading would be the only one to worry me a bit . 12 v battery yeah but a new /good battery gives out 12.8 v . just measure my car after being stopped for 6 hours and thats what it reads.
13.8 to 14.4 is the normal range for an alternator, it just means that it is charging correctly. if you revved the engine this will change slightlly

Yes, thats a little low, the ambient was 20.5C at the time. After I had taken that I took two readings from my own family cars, one is a 15.5 year old Bora in which I replaced the battery purely as a precaution after 12 years and 8 months as my daughter now drives it, the replacement battery is now almost 3 years old.....the terminal voltage on this battery just a while ago after a 4hour stop was 12.6V @ 21C, my wifes March 05 Polo has its original battery and its terminal voltage after a 10 hour stop was 12.21V @ 20.5C but this battery is over 10 years old. Both these cars charge at a very constant 14.2 to 14.4V.
If the BMW doesnt have load compensated Alternator voltage then I suppose its possible because of the very long cable run from the Alternator to the car boot that the battery terminal voltage might be a little low??, however I'd say BMW would have all this well thought out and may enploy some form of "virtual" compensation ie if electrical auxiliaries "A"+"B"+"C" are running then the Alternator voltage rises and vica versa, all fascinating stuff. Or of course they may have a separate sensing wire from the + battery terminal.