' Not ok'

minterno

hi guys,a few weeks ago while returning from Brussels to cork with ryan air ,my bags had an orange tag from 'swissport' with 'not ok' written on it, now my small bag was under the max weight and my larger bag weighed in with ryan air as being 22kg, putting it over by 2 kg so I had to pay an extra 20 euro surcharge, now I had bought a travel scales from Tesco before I left home a few weeks previous and the bag weighed in at 18kg and I had no issues when weighed in cork, when I packed the bag for departure a few weeks later ,I shuffled my gear until I again got a reading of 18kg which left me with 2kg to spare in case the scales were out a little but the bag showed as 22kg with ryan air. just as an experiment when I got home I filled a plastic petrol container with 18 litres of water which came in at 18.5 kg on the Tesco scales which put me in no doubt that I was cheated out of 20 euro by ryan air.
now I know the Tesco scale are cheaply made but given my 18litres(which was measured with a measuring jug litre by litre) given me a weight of 18.5kg with the container im wondering do the scales in ryan airs desk in Brussels need to be calibrated?

Squeeonline

minterno wrote: »

now I know the Tesco scale are cheaply made but given my 18litres(which was measured with a measuring jug litre by litre) given me a weight of 18.5kg with the container im wondering do the scales in ryan airs desk in Brussels need to be calibrated?

Would be nice if those scales were calibrated frequently anyway regardless of airline/airport.

As consumers, we have no way of knowing how badly we are being ripped off otherwise.

roundymac

Ryanair don't fly Brussels- Cork, it's Aer Lingus who do.

Del2005

minterno wrote: »

hi guys,a few weeks ago while returning from Brussels to cork with ryan air ,my bags had an orange tag from 'swissport' with 'not ok' written on it, now my small bag was under the max weight and my larger bag weighed in with ryan air as being 22kg, putting it over by 2 kg so I had to pay an extra 20 euro surcharge, now I had bought a travel scales from Tesco before I left home a few weeks previous and the bag weighed in at 18kg and I had no issues when weighed in cork, when I packed the bag for departure a few weeks later ,I shuffled my gear until I again got a reading of 18kg which left me with 2kg to spare in case the scales were out a little but the bag showed as 22kg with ryan air. just as an experiment when I got home I filled a plastic petrol container with 18 litres of water which came in at 18.5 kg on the Tesco scales which put me in no doubt that I was cheated out of 20 euro by ryan air.
now I know the Tesco scale are cheaply made but given my 18litres(which was measured with a measuring jug litre by litre) given me a weight of 18.5kg with the container im wondering do the scales in ryan airs desk in Brussels need to be calibrated?

IIRC if they are charging by weight it has to be calibrated, and I'd assume the cert would have to be somewhere. Look at the scales in supermarkets which print the price sticker, or petrol pumps, and there's always a sticker showing it's been calibrated. No harm in asking the ECC if there's anything that can be done.

minterno

roundymac wrote: »

Ryanair don't fly Brussels- Cork, it's Aer Lingus who do.

Yes your right..i had to bus to dublin and bus back to cork.my bag was weighed in dublin on the outward trip

minterno

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC if they are charging by weight it has to be calibrated, and I'd assume the cert would have to be somewhere. Look at the scales in supermarkets which print the price sticker, or petrol pumps, and there's always a sticker showing it's been calibrated. No harm in asking the ECC if there's anything that can be done.

Yes they should be calibrated but the one in brussels was off by 3+ kg.or perhaps the bag was not centered on the scale.who knows?

minterno

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC if they are charging by weight it has to be calibrated, and I'd assume the cert would have to be somewhere. Look at the scales in supermarkets which print the price sticker, or petrol pumps, and there's always a sticker showing it's been calibrated. No harm in asking the ECC if there's anything that can be done.

Yes they should be calibrated but the one in brussels was off by 3+ kg.or perhaps the bag was not centered on the scale.who knows?

minterno

roundymac wrote: »

Ryanair don't fly Brussels- Cork, it's Aer Lingus who do.

Yes your right..i had to bus to dublin and bus back to cork.my bag was weighed in dublin on the outward trip

JCX BXC

Changing your story?

minterno

Carnacalla wrote: »

Changing your story?

no.simply forgot about leaving from dublin, why the question, do you think i came on here with a made up story about ryan air whom i have never flown with before or have no issues with aside of (in my opinion)being caught for 20 euro on the faulty scales.

billie1b

minterno wrote: »

no.simply forgot about leaving from dublin, why the question, do you think i came on here with a made up story about ryan air whom i have never flown with before or have no issues with aside of (in my opinion)being caught for 20 euro on the faulty scales.

In my opinion I reckon the handling agents scale in BRU airport would be more accurate than a handheld Tesco one, but thats just me

Preset No.3

By 3kilos???? It would want to be a real crap scales!

arubex

There was an investigation by UK Trading Standards into this subject a few years ago.

They noted a wide variance in measurements but said there was nothing they could do about it ( in the UK ). Since the airline is not selling a good-by-weight they don't actually need to adhere to the usual regulations.

Only advice they could give was to check the scales with something of constant weight e.g. tablet computer and ask for the bag to be weighed on a different scale if the reading seemed wrong.

Aha here it is. So, the best they can do is request that airlines "train check-in staff to make sure their scales are weighing accurately". Well without any penalties, why would they?

http://www.tradingstandards.uk/policy/policy-pressitem.cfm/newsid/36

bk

billie1b wrote: »

In my opinion I reckon the handling agents scale in BRU airport would be more accurate than a handheld Tesco one, but thats just me

I wouldn't be so sure about that! Think about how off the checkin scales are used everyday and how much abuse they receive. It wouldn't be at all surprising to hear that one of them got damaged and was off by quiet a bit.

It all depends on how frequently they are repaired and calibrated.

Here is a tip for you OP. When you arrive at the airport, weight your bag at one of the free and empty checkin desks. If it is way off your at home scales, then check at one or two other desks, I doubt they would all have the same misconfiguartion, specially if they were checkin desks for a different airline. If they do show the same result as your at home scales, but then when you come to the actual checkin desk, it shows something very different, then point this out to them and ask them to weight it on another one of the checkin desk scales.

minterno

billie1b wrote: »

In my opinion I reckon the handling agents scale in BRU airport would be more accurate than a handheld Tesco one, but thats just me

of course it should and I preumed the Tesco one was off but 18 litres of water including a plastic container weighed 18.5kg on the Tesco scale,my bag weighed 18.kg on the scale, 20 litres of water weighed 20.75 on the cheap scales, Id say the Tesco scales would be out some bit but not by a couple of kg.
this was my first time with this carrier and people i had been advised to travel under the permitted weight and I had,i got caught for 20 euro,no bigge but in future I will travel with 2 separate scales and dispute any discrepancies,
a litre of water weighs 1kg and my diy experiments tell me the scales in Brussels were out. this isn't about 20 euros, im just wondering how common, regardsthis is on any airline,just found it annoying

minterno

bk wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure about that! Think about how off the checkin scales are used everyday and how much abuse they receive. It wouldn't be at all surprising to hear that one of them got damaged and was off by quiet a bit.

It all depends on how frequently they are repaired and calibrated.

Here is a tip for you OP. When you arrive at the airport, weight your bag at one of the free and empty checkin desks. If it is way off your at home scales, then check at one or two other desks, I doubt they would all have the same misconfiguartion, specially if they were checkin desks for a different airline. If they do show the same result as your at home scales, but then when you come to the actual checkin desk, it shows something very different, then point this out to them and ask them to weight it on another one of the checkin desk scales.

yes i had read a post about a girl who had weighed her bag in a different vacant check in desk and her bag came in under weight and the airline did not dispute the fact and let her bags go ahead, cheers

FreudianSlippers

Don't really see what this has to do with Ryanair - surely as Swissport issue?

minterno

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Don't really see what this has to do with Ryanair - surely as Swissport issue?

well I was travelling with them and the guy at the ryan air checkin was the person who weighed the bag,i presume he was working for Ryanair but that's not here nor there,look ryan air gets enough bashing online and that's not my intent.

FreudianSlippers

minterno wrote: »

well I was travelling with them and the guy at the ryan air checkin was the person who weighed the bag,i presume he was working for Ryanair but that's not here nor there,look ryan air gets enough bashing online and that's not my intent.

I'm not so sure about that. Ryanair only employs staff at DUB and STN (maybe ORK?) IIRC; the guy checking you in worked from the sounds of it like Swissport. I would presume the onus is on Swissport on behalf of the airport in question to ensure calibration of the scales and not Ryanair.

Complain to everyone you want, but I wouldn't expect much from Ryanair but a "PFO not our problem" letter and Swissport will need proof of some sort that their scales were incorrectly calibrated at the time.

dzilla

Had the exact same issue in Gran Canaria this year

bk

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. Ryanair only employs staff at DUB and STN (maybe ORK?) IIRC; the guy checking you in worked from the sounds of it like Swissport. I would presume the onus is on Swissport on behalf of the airport in question to ensure calibration of the scales and not Ryanair.

While the member of staff might be Swissport, in the end, you are a customer of Ryanair and your contract is with them. Therefore it is Ryanairs responsibility to make sure their contractors are doing the right thing.

While IANAL, this is quiet a standard concept in general consumer law. Your contract is with the seller (shop, airline, etc.) and if you have an issue, the onus is on the seller to rectify the issue.

Otherwise every big company could easily throw up their hands and blame every issue they faced on sub-contractors, manufacturers, etc. and consumers would end up with no protection!

smurfjed

Are the check-in agents still paid a percentage of the extra baggage charges?

PinOnTheRight

smurfjed wrote: »

Are the check-in agents still paid a percentage of the extra baggage charges?

With a Ryanair style handling contract, I highly doubt it!

donkey balls

Having worked in the less glamorous side of aviation (Cargo) our weighing scales got calibrated every year as per the regs,Using a faulty scale could result in the W & B being all over the place and the possibility of an aircraft crash.
I take it the bags checked in that are weighed go towards the aircraft calculations for W & B so I would assume they need to be calibrated,In other industries that I have worked in the likes of weigh bridges are calibrated either on a 6/12 month basis.

XsApollo

smurfjed wrote: »

Are the check-in agents still paid a percentage of the extra baggage charges?

Not all staff.
At the end of the month there is a bonus for the check in agent with the highest excess baggage that month

notharrypotter

At the end of the month there is a bonus for the check in agent with the highest excess baggage that month

Proof? or urban myth?

roundymac

Cork are Swissport as well, were Servisair before that.

ProfessorPlum

donkey balls wrote: »

Having worked in the less glamorous side of aviation (Cargo) our weighing scales got calibrated every year as per the regs,Using a faulty scale could result in the W & B being all over the place and the possibility of an aircraft crash.
I take it the bags checked in that are weighed go towards the aircraft calculations for W & B so I would assume they need to be calibrated,In other industries that I have worked in the likes of weigh bridges are calibrated either on a 6/12 month basis.

I'd assume Ryanair are using standard weights.

JCX BXC

roundymac wrote: »

Cork are Swissport as well, were Servisair before that.

Should it be dublin, thats irrelivant, but this person seem to be confused as to where they flew into.

mickdw

donkey balls wrote: »

Having worked in the less glamorous side of aviation (Cargo) our weighing scales got calibrated every year as per the regs,Using a faulty scale could result in the W & B being all over the place and the possibility of an aircraft crash.
I take it the bags checked in that are weighed go towards the aircraft calculations for W & B so I would assume they need to be calibrated,In other industries that I have worked in the likes of weigh bridges are calibrated either on a 6/12 month basis.

Calibrated every year? That seems rather poor if the scales is directly responsible for Laods going on the aircraft. I would have thought there would be a control check each morning using a known weight to give some level of confirmation as to its performance given the safety critical role.

minterno

Carnacalla wrote: »

Should it be dublin, thats irrelivant, but this person seem to be confused as to where they flew into.

this person is not confused at all as I explained in a follow up post, I flew from Dublin,end of, perhaps you need to see my boarding card,or the tags including the 'not ok' tags or you could always grow up and get a life

Strumms

mickdw wrote: »

Calibrated every year? That seems rather poor if the scales is directly responsible for Laods going on the aircraft. I would have thought there would be a control check each morning using a known weight to give some level of confirmation as to its performance given the safety critical role.

Calibrated once every 6 months, inspected / tested using a known weight once in a 24 hour period where cargo is weighed. Scale inspection form completed and filed and any irregularities noted. That is to clarify cargo procedures as for the scales used at checkin I am not informed enough to comment. I always ensure that the readout reads 0 if I'm checking in a bag and an eye kept on the weigh scale for debris and also for a foot .

mickdw

Strumms wrote: »

Calibrated once every 6 months, inspected / tested using a known weight once in a 24 hour period where cargo is weighed. Scale inspection form completed and filed and any irregularities noted. That is to clarify cargo procedures as for the scales used at checkin I am not informed enough to comment. I always ensure that the readout reads 0 if I'm checking in a bag and an eye kept on the weigh scale for debris and also for a foot .

Thats reassuring at least. It is inline with what I would expect in aviation .

smurfjed

It is inline with what I would expect in aviation

So total accuracy with the scales and then we put all the passengers onboard based on an average weight!

FreudianSlippers

bk wrote: »

While the member of staff might be Swissport, in the end, you are a customer of Ryanair and your contract is with them. Therefore it is Ryanairs responsibility to make sure their contractors are doing the right thing.

In general in contract law, that would usually be true. In quite a significant number of examples in relation to luggage, you'd be entirely correct.

In this specific example I'd wager you're not correct
If it isn't in Regulation 889/2002/EC, then it depends on custody of the baggage and the contract between the airline and the service provider.

It gets even more complex from the examples of which I'm aware at the BAA, who claim that it isn't even their fault but rather the fault of the operator at check-in, who are usually 3rd party providers like Swissport.

roundymac

Carnacalla wrote: »

Should it be dublin, thats irrelivant, but this person seem to be confused as to where they flew into.

I was answering a question posed by Freudian Slippers.

mickdw

smurfjed wrote: »

So total accuracy with the scales and then we put all the passengers onboard based on an average weight!

Talking about freight. I believe it would be important to have functioning scales tbh.
If you are going to weight stuff, no point doing it with an unchecked scales.

XsApollo

notharrypotter wrote: »

Proof? or urban myth?

Actually just asked my wife to be sure.
She said they stopped that a couple of years ago.
I knew they did pay bonuses ,I just didn't know they stopped.

So no they aren't doing that anymore.

andy_g

Well i can tell you there is no "not ok" tags in Dublin nor have i ever seen them in swissport ireland

donkey balls

mickdw wrote: »

Calibrated every year? That seems rather poor if the scales is directly responsible for Laods going on the aircraft. I would have thought there would be a control check each morning using a known weight to give some level of confirmation as to its performance given the safety critical role.

When I say calibrated every year that is done by an outside agency(NSAI type crowd) of course the scales are checked on a daily basis using either a ULD or a weight.

minterno

andy_g wrote: »

Well i can tell you there is no "not ok" tags in Dublin nor have i ever seen them in swissport ireland

Tags were on the bags when i collected them.must have been put on in brussels

minterno

andy_g wrote: »

Well i can tell you there is no "not ok" tags in Dublin nor have i ever seen them in swissport ireland

Tags were on the bags when i collected them.must have been put on in brussels

andy_g

You maybe right it may have been brussels but not dub

Spanish Eyes

I usually throw my checked bags on a free belt from whatever airline is free in the terminal.

It is great reassurance that the weigh thing I have myself is working!

John T Carroll

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I usually throw my checked bags on a free belt from whatever airline is free in the terminal.

It is great reassurance that the weigh thing I have myself is working!

I weigh my bags with a "cheap" hand scales that we always carry with us, have never had a problem at any check in at R.Air, A.Lingus, Easyjet, Jet2.com or any of the other airlines that I have flown with for many years, I just ensure that my scales is a bit shy of 14.5kgs or 19.5kgs.

Popoutman

The check-in desk weigh areas in Irish airports are *not* checked by any of the national calibration authorities. I would love to see these devices brought into the remit of requiring correct calibration.

I've regularly seen 5%-20% differences between a weighing on a calibrated scales, then the same item weighed at the check-in desk, on the times I've flown. And yes, I've also seen the same issues coming out of Gran Canaria airport with bags showing as overweight on the check-in desk where in fact they were at least a kilo under.

It all seems a little pointless, given you can take your heavy items out and carry on or wear on, transferring the mass from the hold to the cabin, but still on board the plane.

Pat Dunne

Popoutman wrote: »

The check-in desk weigh areas in Irish airports are *not* checked by any of the national calibration authorities. I would love to see these devices brought into the remit of requiring correct calibration.

I've regularly seen 5%-20% differences between a weighing on a calibrated scales, then the same item weighed at the check-in desk, on the times I've flown. And yes, I've also seen the same issues coming out of Gran Canaria airport with bags showing as overweight on the check-in desk where in fact they were at least a kilo under.

It all seems a little pointless, given you can take your heavy items out and carry on or wear on, transferring the mass from the hold to the cabin, but still on board the plane.

Based on the post from above, I decided to email the National Standards Authority of Ireland, (NSAI), which has reponsibility for Legal Metrology, what used to be know as "Weights and Measures". In other words, these are the people that physically go out on the ground and check that the petrol pump that fills your car, is metering out the correct amount of fuel, the weighting scales in you local shop that weights your half pound of cooked ham etc, etc. They also have responsibility for the weighting scales at Dublin Airport and all other Irish Airports.

Here is their response.

Dublin Airport
9 September 2015 23:49

Hi Pat

Thank you for your enquiry. Legal Metrology have conducted inspections of baggage weighing equipment in Dublin airport during 2015 and we are satisfied with the levels of compliance at this time. If you have an issue with a specific instrument please provide further details and a Legal Metrology inspector will conduct an investigation and notify you of the outcome.

Regards
Individual's name redacted by Pat Dunne
Manager
NSAI Legal Metrology Service

Popoutman

^ That's wonderful!

Thank you for clarifying that! I had been told (by an Aer Lingus engineer working out of Dublin) that the check-in scales weren't calibrated and checked, obviously my information and experience is well out of date - I realised I hadn't flown with carry-on through Dublin in a few years.

Much appreciated for actually checking on that, it hadn't occurred to me to do similar.

Now can we get the Spanish to do the same in Gran Canaria? ;-)

Pat Dunne

Popoutman wrote: »

Now can we get the Spanish to do the same in Gran Canaria? ;-)

Sure why don't you send the Spanish "Weights & Measures" people an email yourself.