Just started watching..

helimachoptor

Never watched the Star wars films, few mins here and there but sat down yesterday and watched TPM and Clone Wars

2 questions

- What causes the disruption in the force?
- Theres mention of "ill gather what jedi we have left" did i miss something? what caused the jedi to die/disappear etc?

bmorrissey

The new 3 films are kind of all over the place, i would suggest watching the youtube video "the phantom edit" it plays out them 3 films while cutting out alot of the fat (especially in the phantom menace) and actually tells the story waaay better

Clareman

helimachoptor wrote: »

- What causes the disruption in the force?

Think of the force as an energy field that some people can sense and/or control, sometimes a big change happens that causes a disruption that people can senses.
Another way to think of it is a pond, lots of ebbs and flows but if you throw in a rock it'll be all over the place.

Don't mention midichlorins, ever

helimachoptor wrote: »

- Theres mention of "ill gather what jedi we have left" did i miss something? what caused the jedi to die/disappear etc?

I'm not sure where in the movies you are so I'll try to keep spoiler free. There is a theory that at the start of the TPM that the Jedi has reduced their recruitment/training of Jedi, they had gotten lazy because everything was under control and there wasn't a need for large numbers of them. Once the Clone Wars began a lot of Jedi were killed and they weren't being replaced as quickly as they were being lost because there wasn't that many in training.
There's another theory that as the Sith were coming to power and masking their presence they were taking a lot of the force power which meant that the Jedi powers were being weakened.

Myrddin

helimachoptor wrote: »

What causes the disruption in the force?

The presence of the Sith was what caused that, as I understood it. A 'cloud' of darkness had descended, preventing the Jedi from understanding who was who & what was going on.

Theres mention of "ill gather what jedi we have left" did i miss something? what caused the jedi to die/disappear etc?

Yeah I'm not sure of where this line is from, in relation to the timeline. Is it possible that many Jedi were away on the frontlines, fighting the droid army?

helimachoptor

Clareman wrote: »

Think of the force as an energy field that some people can sense and/or control, sometimes a big change happens that causes a disruption that people can senses.
Another way to think of it is a pond, lots of ebbs and flows but if you throw in a rock it'll be all over the place.

Don't mention midichlorins, ever



I'm not sure where in the movies you are so I'll try to keep spoiler free. There is a theory that at the start of the TPM that the Jedi has reduced their recruitment/training of Jedi, they had gotten lazy because everything was under control and there wasn't a need for large numbers of them. Once the Clone Wars began a lot of Jedi were killed and they weren't being replaced as quickly as they were being lost because there wasn't that many in training.
There's another theory that as the Sith were coming to power and masking their presence they were taking a lot of the force power which meant that the Jedi powers were being weakened.

Sorry i know what the force is, but they say their power/control over it has diminished, just wondering what causes this, is it the Sith?

Cheers for the answer!

helimachoptor

Myrddin wrote: »

The presence of the Sith was what caused that, as I understood it. A 'cloud' of darkness had descended, preventing the Jedi from understanding who was who & what was going on.



Yeah I'm not sure of where this line is from, in relation to the timeline. Is it possible that many Jedi were away on the frontlines, fighting the droid army?

This comes in as Samuel L Jackson is heading off to the big stadium that Anakin and the rest are fighting in

Clareman

helimachoptor wrote: »

Sorry i know what the force is, but they say their power/control over it has diminished, just wondering what causes this, is it the Sith?

Cheers for the answer!

Ahh, sorry, then look at Myrddin answer

It's still Monday morning and I've only had 1 coffee yet

Clareman

helimachoptor wrote: »

This comes in as Samuel L Jackson is heading off to the big stadium that Anakin and the rest are fighting in

I think that line references that there aren't that many Jedi in that location at the time and they'd have to rope in whoever they could at short notice, at this stage the Jedi knew the Sith were back but didn't know where/who they were so they were spread fairly thin looking for them.

The_Valeyard

Well, OP,

Fair play to watching the, you were missing a large important part of culture


+ you will enjoy the new film when released as you will know all the story

helimachoptor

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Well, OP,

Fair play to watching the, you were missing a large important part of culture


+ you will enjoy the new film when released as you will know all the story

I'm a trekkie, never really got into star wars, have tried to watch a few times but never held my interest, I'll struggle with the old films i think

Into The Blue

As a late comer also, and a (now old ex) trekkie, i really enjoyed the prequels. Gave a different slant to the original trilogy. Just put the tely on mute for that jar jar lad, be grand.

Blazer

Into The Blue wrote: »

As a late comer also, and a (now old ex) trekkie, i really enjoyed the prequels. Gave a different slant to the original trilogy. Just put the tely on mute for that jar jar lad, be grand.

oh god no they're awful..I was always a trekkie and eventually only watched Star Wars in the mid 90's. Sure it was a bit cheesy but great..but the prequels? awful muck...how I ever stuck the last one out in the cinema I'll never know...

helimachoptor

watched the last one.. a few questions

Darth Maul beats Liam Neeson
But McGregor beats Dark Maul (stay with me)
Anakin beats Count Duku
Samuel L Jackson beats Palpatine (but gets killed by Anakin)
Yoda cant beat Palpatine

so does this mean the Jedi power order goes

Sam L Jackson
McGregor
Yoda?


Also, in the last part of the film it says that Yoda can commune with Liam Neeson, is this shown in the originals?
Also if he can communicate in death, you'd expect hes pretty damn powerful


At the lava fight, Mac says hes got the high ground (but you see lots of Jumping over each other in the film and no one loses a leg)
Why didnt Mac just go and still his lightsabre into him and end it?

Also killing the kids.. what a cnut!

Myrddin

helimachoptor wrote: »

watched the last one.. a few questions

Darth Maul beats Liam Neeson
But McGregor beats Dark Maul (stay with me)
Anakin beats Count Duku
Samuel L Jackson beats Palpatine (but gets killed by Anakin)
Yoda cant beat Palpatine

so does this mean the Jedi power order goes

Sam L Jackson
McGregor
Yoda?

Personally, I believe Palpatine allowed himself to 'appear' defeated by Windu, in order to push Anakin over the edge and take action, thus securing his passage to the dark side. Palpatine was far from defeated in reality, and it was he who killed Windu, not Anakin (with his force lightning, while screaming about ultimate power). Yoda is considered to be the most powerful with force powers, but I think Windu was considered one of the top swordsmen. On balance, Palpatine was stronger than them all.

Also, in the last part of the film it says that Yoda can commune with Liam Neeson, is this shown in the originals?
Also if he can communicate in death, you'd expect hes pretty damn powerful

Such an ability is shown in the originals.

At the lava fight, Mac says hes got the high ground (but you see lots of Jumping over each other in the film and no one loses a leg)
Why didnt Mac just go and still his lightsabre into him and end it?

Kenobi didn't want to kill Anakin, he advised Anakin that at that particular moment in the fight that he had a clear opportunity to inflict damage. Anakin by then though had been consumed by the dark side, & was filled with rage and arrogance, leading to his eventual defeat. You can see how badly this affected Kenobi.

Also killing the kids.. what a cnut!

Ep 3 was by far the best of the prequel trilogy, and the darkest. It's a crying shame two entire films were wasted setting up events so the third film could happen.

helimachoptor

Are you assuming that Palpatine could sense Anakin coming to him and engineered the situation?

I'm just wondering given how long they spent in Palpatines company, how they couldn't sense he was the sith lord?

Also another question, when order 66 is given to the Clones, is it said anywhere how this order was disseminated or was it programmed into them during cloning?

On Anakin at that point, Obi knew how powerful he was, i dont understand why he didnt kill him tbh, removes a big threat.


I agree, Ep 3 was very good, will watch the next 3 over a couple of weeks

Myrddin

helimachoptor wrote: »

Are you assuming that Palpatine could sense Anakin coming to him and engineered the situation?

Don't forget the force gives users glimpses of the future, I do think Palpatine engineered the entire situation. In fact, the plot of the whole three prequel films was his plan. The tragedy being that is was the very attempts to save democracy being what led to its downfall. Palpatine knew looking defeated & in danger of dying in Anakins eyes, would spur Anakin to take action (don't forget also, that Palpatine has convinced Anakin that through him was the only was to save Padme).

I'm just wondering given how long they spent in Palpatines company, how they couldn't sense he was the sith lord?

Poor writing here, but it's explained that the presence of the Sith Lord introduced a 'fog', and prevented the Jedi from being able to see what was going on for a long time.

Also another question, when order 66 is given to the Clones, is it said anywhere how this order was disseminated or was it programmed into them during cloning?

I always took it that it was programmed into their genetic make up yeah. Both armies were ultimately ordered by the same man (Palpatine), so he could play them off each other and progress politically, enough so that he could take profound actions in the name of peace etc. It was a master plan really, but again, it shouldn't have taken three films to tell this story.

On Anakin at that point, Obi knew how powerful he was, i dont understand why he didnt kill him tbh, removes a big threat.

Hard to say, he had a bond with Anakin & it killed him to see how Anakin was used and manipulated and eventually turned to the darkside.

Clareman

helimachoptor wrote: »

watched the last one.. a few questions

Cool

helimachoptor wrote: »

Darth Maul beats Liam Neeson

- Yes and had the upper hand during their initial battle.

helimachoptor wrote: »

But McGregor beats Dark Maul (stay with me)

- After a lengthy battle and what could be deemed a lucky shot

helimachoptor wrote: »

Anakin beats Count Duku

- a much older opponent. Again there was 2 jedi in the battle

helimachoptor wrote: »

Samuel L Jackson beats Palpatine (but gets killed by Anakin)

- After a number of Jedi helping out

helimachoptor wrote: »

Yoda cant beat Palpatine

helimachoptor wrote: »

so does this mean the Jedi power order goes

Sam L Jackson
McGregor
Yoda?

I would say that the Sith are much better at combat than the Jedi as they use anger.

helimachoptor wrote: »

Also, in the last part of the film it says that Yoda can commune with Liam Neeson, is this shown in the originals?
Also if he can communicate in death, you'd expect hes pretty damn powerful

As they aren't concentrating on combat so much they can look into other skills/powers.

helimachoptor wrote: »

At the lava fight, Mac says hes got the high ground (but you see lots of Jumping over each other in the film and no one loses a leg)
Why didnt Mac just go and still his lightsabre into him and end it?

That's a great discussion point, what's worse leaving him to die of killing him? would killing him have been seen as a callious thing to do that wouldn't have been in line with the Jedi way. Personally I think it's a cop out and Anakin should have been washed away in the lava or something.

helimachoptor wrote: »

Also killing the kids.. what a cnut!

Yup, but it's a great way of showing that his descent to the dark side was total.

Clareman

helimachoptor wrote: »

Are you assuming that Palpatine could sense Anakin coming to him and engineered the situation?

Yes, it was a big game of chess at this stage with moves being planned in advance, the Jedi knew that Anakin was going to go to Palpatine but ordered him not to, they assumed (arrogance) that he'd obey the order, Palpatine knew that he wouldn't

helimachoptor wrote: »

I'm just wondering given how long they spent in Palpatines company, how they couldn't sense he was the sith lord?

The dark side was a cloak at this stage, that's why the final conversation between Mace and Yoda at Qui Gon's funeral was so ominous.

helimachoptor wrote: »

Also another question, when order 66 is given to the Clones, is it said anywhere how this order was disseminated or was it programmed into them during cloning?

Dooku ordered the clones so would have included that order in the "spec" for the clones, that's why Fett wanted an unmodified clone for himself.

helimachoptor wrote: »

On Anakin at that point, Obi knew how powerful he was, i dont understand why he didnt kill him tbh, removes a big threat.

Yup, but Obiwan did ask not to have to battle his friend, that he wouldn't kill him.

helimachoptor wrote: »

I agree, Ep 3 was very good, will watch the next 3 over a couple of weeks

There's some great edits out there for the prequel trilogy

helimachoptor

Clareman wrote: »

Cool

- Yes and had the upper hand during their initial battle.
- After a lengthy battle and what could be deemed a lucky shot
- a much older opponent. Again there was 2 jedi in the battle
- After a number of Jedi helping out



I would say that the Sith are much better at combat than the Jedi as they use anger.




As they aren't concentrating on combat so much they can look into other skills/powers.


That's a great discussion point, what's worse leaving him to die of killing him? would killing him have been seen as a callious thing to do that wouldn't have been in line with the Jedi way. Personally I think it's a cop out and Anakin should have been washed away in the lava or something.



Yup, but it's a great way of showing that his descent to the dark side was total.

Much older yes but surely a more powerful user of the force also wasnt Obi knocked out of the fight pretty early?

The 3 other jedi were basically red shirts :pac:

Clareman

helimachoptor wrote: »

Much older yes but surely a more powerful user of the force also wasnt Obi knocked out of the fight pretty early?

The 3 other jedi were basically red shirts :pac:

I always thought of the duels as physical battles of force usage, the reason they are so skilled is because they can sense what their opponent is going to do next, but if they are getting tired they won't be able to compete. The reason Anakin is such a good pod racer is cause of his force abilities.

Blazer

I'm in the middle of reading the audiobook Dark Plageuis who were Palpatine's master and Sith was capable of masking their true being in order to hide in plain site. It really is an excellent book and sets the background for the prequels. It makes the prequels look as being written by children.

ziedth

helimachoptor wrote: »

Much older yes but surely a more powerful user of the force also wasnt Obi knocked out of the fight pretty early?

The 3 other jedi were basically red shirts :pac:

I read the book (I'm not sure if it's cannon) but it actually takes place from Duku's point of view and it would so much have been better if the film had shown it that way. Basically as they are fighting he keeps thinking something doesn't feel right he thought that Palpatine was leading the two Jedi into a trap but he isn't interested in the fight and it's only when he knocks out Obi-Wan he realises that Anakin is holding back and is essentially toying with him he then easily cuts his hands off and when the Emporer says kill him I don't think he even hesitates. I'll see can I link to it.

I'm working off memory but I also think that Palpatine was making it look like he had lost and was waiting to see if Anakin would help.

Myrddin

ziedth wrote: »

I'm working off memory but I also think that Palpatine was making it look like he had lost and was waiting to see if Anakin would help.

Without having read nay of the books, this is the impression I got from the film. You can see in the film Palpatine has a miraculous recovery once Windu's hands had been cut off by Anakin.

Clareman

I must get some of the expanded universe books to read, especially around the prequels, I haven't read any of them and didn't get into the Clone Wars cartoon either.

Clareman

Just watched the end of the Revenge of the Sith again, my take on the 2 main duels at the end is:

Yoda vs. Palpatine
Palpatine is able to shield his thoughts/plans from Yoda on a number of occassions, for example the very start when he uses force lightening, Yoda realises that he won't be able to better Palpatine so he runs.

Obi Wan vs. Anakin
2 very evenly matched fighters who tire near the end, Obi Wan is able to regain focus and is able to better Anakin at the end, Anakin has totoally gone to the dark side when Obi Wan turns his back to him, at this stage in Obi Wan's mind his friend is dead.[/b]

Don't get me started on the whole "lost the will to live" thing at the end for Padme, total cop out, should just have had Anakin have had killer her.

Nody

Clareman wrote: »

Don't get me started on the whole "lost the will to live" thing at the end for Padme, total cop out, should just have had Anakin have had killer her.

That would only work if you assume Anakin had turned "evil" in and for it's own reason; if you assume that he still did what he thought was best for the Galaxy (and to protect his wife by extension) that would not work as it would go against his motivation.

Clareman

Nody wrote: »

That would only work if you assume Anakin had turned "evil" in and for it's own reason; if you assume that he still did what he thought was best for the Galaxy (and to protect his wife by extension) that would not work as it would go against his motivation.

There's a lot of ways they could have gotten around it, the part where Anakin told her they could take over the galaxy together, or could have had him blow something up for her to be hit by shrapnel or something. Then again, I guess with everything they could have gone anyway with it and people would still have issues.

Myrddin

Nody wrote: »

if you assume that he still did what he thought was best for the Galaxy (and to protect his wife by extension) that would not work as it would go against his motivation.

I think by the end, he felt she had betrayed him & as such, was a case of "you're either with me or against me". I think Anakin was paranoid also about Padme & Kenobi, & seeing him exit her ship on Mustafar pushed him over the edge. The 'lost the will to live' thing was a complete cop out imo, killing her in his paranoid delusion fuelled rage would seem to have been the perfect way to arc the story, but I guess it seemed un-kid friendly.

helimachoptor

really struggling to watch the old films, have had them on a few times and i just lose interest

Clareman

helimachoptor wrote: »

really struggling to watch the old films, have had them on a few times and i just lose interest

If you watched those first you would probably find it the same watching the prequels, they are almost 2 completely different film series.

2ndcoming

helimachoptor wrote: »

really struggling to watch the old films, have had them on a few times and i just lose interest

How ep 1 and 2 held your interest when the original trilogy doesn't hold your interest is a bit of a mystery to me tbh?!

It's too late now but I would have recommended to you the Machete Order of watching 4 then 5 then 2 then 3 then 6 (leaving the awful 1 out altogether) for the best viewing experience.

Maybe someone else reading who hasn't seen the originals can try it I suppose.