Q: tenant rights, fixes, part 4 tenancy

Kevface91

Hi guys, looking for some clarification here, havent been able to find any directly relatable legislation on this topic.

-So I've been living in a place for over a year, we had a 1year contract.
-this expired and we stayed on on a rolling contract.
-we had some issues with required fixes (both minor and serious, minor ones still not fixed because we havent been agressive enough)
-landlord has been generally sloppy and slow addressing these issues. he hasnt ever refused per se, but does not answer phone, does not reply to email, etc.
-as i said, the minor issues have not yet been sorted, and now the landlord is looking for us to sign another lease and increase rent (fair enough, we are due one)

basically I understand we are probably under a part 4 tenancy agreement (nothing in writing at the time (*but it did come up later, so we're prob covered?), but he asked us were we happy to continue, we said yes)

My question is, how much sway do i have, in terms of tenant rights? e.g. for one, does he still have repair obligations from the initial lease, or can he give us our notice if he simply doesnt want to fix it, or if we "fail to reach a new agreement (rent amount or otherwise)" in any form?

Michael D Not Higgins

What are the repairs for?

You are automatically on a part 4 after 6 months. You don't need anything in writing for it.

The_Conductor

A new lease cannot take from any rights you have under the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act- it can however, confer rights in addition to those specified in the Act- along with clarifying issues related to the tenancy.

You automatically have Part IV rights once you've been in the property for 6 months- irrespective of the existence (or subsequent elapse) of a fixed term tenancy.

A Part IV tenancy can only be set aside for specific reasons- as spelt out in the Act (including the landlord needing the property for himself or a family member, antisocial behaviour etc etc). Normally- you'd have more security with a fixed term lease- as the tenancy couldn't be vacated in cases of disagreement with the landlord- by him stating he needs it for one of his children- or whatever).

Its up to you- there are pros and cons to getting another fixed term lease.

Either way- the landlord is responsible for any major repairs to the property- anything minor may or may not be the responsibility of the tenant- aka- you really don't want the landlord calling around to change lightbulbs etc- however, if something more serious did occur- it should immediately be brought to the attention of the landlord. Just because the landlord may be responsible for repairs- does not necessarily mean he is liable for the cost of the repairs- this will depend on the repair, why it was necessary- whether the actions or inactions of the tenant caused the issue etc etc.

One way or the other- aside from the lack of communication with the landlord- you need to agree on whether or not you're going to sign another lease- and whether you accept the proposed increase in rent.

Kevface91

The major repairs were for an intermittent leak, that on a few occasions soaked the carpet and caused a mould smell. that took a couple of months to fix, and seemed to require us threatening with an environmental health officer. while inspecting, they pointed out the more minor issues that we should also have a fire blanket and that there wasnt adequate ventilation in the bathroom. also one of the balcony doors has been broken since day 1, we'd like it to work but we were too nice/accomodating in the beginning, and later i figured I'd better hold off mentioning it incase/until he increases rent.

but regarding the "disagreement with a landlord" termination policy, can you point me to any legislation here? i mean we're open to a certain rent increase, but if I ticked him off he could prob just change the figure, no? also we need a new tenant, I likely have a prospective person, but I found out in the meantime that he ignored this proposition and informed my roommate (only) that he is holding viewings, and may be signing a contract soon. Can he do that? I recall that we can refuse new tenants if we feel they are incompatible, i have not been approached, but technically my roommate has given the nod of approval. is that enough?

Michael D Not Higgins

If you don't agree with the rent increase (this is separate to the repairs issue by the way) you must inform the landlord of such. If they don't agree to a compromise, your options are to dispute it with the PRTB or move out.

What exactly is happening with new tenants. Is there a roommate moving out that requires a room to be filled? Is your lease joint with all tenant and for the entire flat or do you each have an agreement for a room?

Kevface91

joint lease, but as i said lease technically expired. tenant in question moved out due to frustration in slow repairs. remaining tenants paid their share, but not for leaky room. once issue was sorted, LL contacted us to increase the rent, i replied i may have a potential person interested, never heard back after this. some time later another tenant was contacted by phone to arrange a viewing, without my consultation, etc.

I know we have to fill the spare room (or pay ourselves), but i feel like this lack of communication/consultation from the LL may be a breach of our rights?

davo10

Kevface91 wrote: »

joint lease, but as i said lease technically expired. tenant in question moved out due to frustration in slow repairs. remaining tenants paid their share, but not for leaky room. once issue was sorted, LL contacted us to increase the rent, i replied i may have a potential person interested, never heard back after this. some time later another tenant was contacted by phone to arrange a viewing, without my consultation, etc.

I know we have to fill the spare room (or pay ourselves), but i feel like this lack of communication/consultation from the LL may be a breach of our rights?

Op, you seem to be saying that since one house mate moved out, the remaining housemates have continued to pay only their original share of the overall monthly rent and that the rent received each month by the LL is down by the equivalent of one tenants share. Now that the leak is fixed, are you saying that the LL wants the full monthly rent again paid either by the remaining housemates or by the addition of a new house mate? If this is so, it is not a rent increase, it means that the overall rent is being paid by fewer tenants paying a larger share, whereas if another tenant moves into that room, the share paid by each tenant goes back to the original amount. Could you clarify please?

Kevface91

no, two separate things. LL is looking to re-fill last room (to get us back to original total rent) and is separately increasing his rent (as is his right every 12 months i believe).
I suggested via email I may have a candidate but was awaiting feedback/negotiation (we hadnt agreed a sum, and still had the remaining issues i was awaiting an update on), i never heard any feedback from him, and ive recently learned these new developments about attempting to fill the room without even consulting me

davo10

Kevface91 wrote: »

no, two separate things. LL is looking to re-fill last room (to get us back to original total rent) and is separately increasing his rent (as is his right every 12 months i believe).
I suggested via email I may have a candidate but was awaiting feedback/negotiation (we hadnt agreed a sum, and still had the remaining issues i was awaiting an update on), i never heard any feedback from him, and ive recently learned these new developments about attempting to fill the room without even consulting me

Ya see here's the thing, if the room is fixed then you and the remaining tenants quite rightly will be required to pay the full rent between you. If you had someone to rent the room, what stopped you from getting that person in ASAP so that you wouldn't have to pay the increased share? You wouldn't need permission from the LL and I'm sure he would be delighted to again receive the full rental rate. You can't have it both ways, wait for someone you like to come along and rent the room and pay the reduced rent while the room remains vacant. By letting the room, the landlord gets the full rent he is entitled to and you pay the reduced equal share of the rent when house is at full capacity.

If the ll hasn't increased the rent within the last year, he is very much entitled to do so up to the market rate. If you feel that is unfair then contact the PRTB or give the required notice and move on. As I'm sure you know, if you lose at the PRTB or withdraw your complaint, you will be liable for the increased amount from the date you received the proper notice.

Kevface91

some fair points you make alright, but paying the increase isnt really my issue here.

i know technically we are jointly responsible for the full rent, but in the case of the leak, my reasoning is that the LL's negligence is a far more prominent breach of contract than not paying the full share.
admittedly perhaps we should be paying full rent now that the room is (more or less) in order again, but since there are outstanding issues he refuses to even comment on, I feel comfortable that the issue of liability for this room is still a grey area.

also I was under the impression that we DO in fact need permission from the LL before getting in a new person. they would have had no lease signed, no responsibility, and technically this counts as subletting if I am not mistaken, which is forbidden.

davo10

Kevface91 wrote: »

admittedly perhaps we should be paying full rent now that the room is (more or less) in order again, but since there are outstanding issues he refuses to even comment on, I feel comfortable that the issue of liability for this room is still a grey area.

also I was under the impression that we DO in fact need permission from the LL before getting in a new person. they would have had no lease signed, no responsibility, and technically this counts as subletting if I am not mistaken, which is forbidden.

Liability for the room? I understood from your post that you are each still paying what you were when there was a full compliment of tenants, doesn't that mean that the LL has accepted that rent is not due for that room while it was being repaired? I think that is accepting liability and being very reasonable, he accepted that it was uninhabitable and was not charging rent for it until it was repaired. If you got another tenant, why on earth would the LL not agree to it? It would mean more rent, I think you are being a bit facetious here.

Kevface91

what? huh? i think we misunderstand eachother here.
in summary, i was talking about us tenants accepting liability for empty room, once it was fixed. by grey area, i meant that he was still ignoring the other issues, and my offer of another potential tenant, so why should i chase him down to get extra money in his pocket?

so the timeline:
-leak discovered, LL notified. attitude = grand, give him time to sort a fix
-no response, remind LL about leak, ask whats being done. continue to pay rent in good faith.
-still no response, roommate leaves in frustration (despite recommendation to involve prtb or withold rent).
-we say were not paying for the leaky room.
-we get more official parties involved to speed things up, they identify/confirm other issues.
-eventually leak is fixed, other issues outstanding. LL is on to us immediately about options to fill room and raise rent.
-I respond with potential candidate, ask about remaining issues. no response.
-LL contacts other housemates and arranges viewing & possible signing without any attempt to contact me.

you're entitled to your opinion on my attitude but I think its fairly justified given the circumstances. I really dont think its much to ask for a little more communication and professional behaviour...

davo10

Kevface91 wrote: »

what? huh? i think we misunderstand eachother here.
in summary, i was talking about us tenants accepting liability for empty room, once it was fixed. by grey area, i meant that he was still ignoring the other issues, and my offer of another potential tenant, so why should i chase him down to get extra money in his pocket?

so the timeline:
-leak discovered, LL notified. attitude = grand, give him time to sort a fix
-no response, remind LL about leak, ask whats being done. continue to pay rent in good faith.
-still no response, roommate leaves in frustration (despite recommendation to involve prtb or withold rent).
-we say were not paying for the leaky room.
-we get more official parties involved to speed things up, they identify/confirm other issues.
-eventually leak is fixed, other issues outstanding. LL is on to us immediately about options to fill room and raise rent.
-I respond with potential candidate, ask about remaining issues. no response.
-LL contacts other housemates and arranges viewing & possible signing without any attempt to contact me.

you're entitled to your opinion on my attitude but I think its fairly justified given the circumstances. I really dont think its much to ask for a little more communication and professional behaviour...

But you said he contacted the other housemates about the viewing, does everything have to be run by you? The room is fixed so full rent is now due from those remaining there, or stop wasting time and get somebody else in, you can't have it both ways. If you refuse to pay, a notice of eviction will not be long coming, you may feel you have the moral high ground but non payment of rent is a justifiable cause for eviction.

athtrasna

OP are you renting a room or renting the house as a group of individuals. What is your lease for?

If you're renting the house rather than just a room I can't see why the landlord is involved in replacing the departed tenant.

If your lease is only for your room then you would not be responsible for making up any shortfall in rent caused by an empty room.

davo10

athtrasna wrote: »

OP are you renting a room or renting the house as a group of individuals. What is your lease for?

If you're renting the house rather than just a room I can't see why the landlord is involved in replacing the departed tenant.

Presumably because the op and the other remaining tenants are refusing to pay the full rental, nor have they as of yet got a tenant to take the repaired room. Simples.

athtrasna

davo10 wrote: »

Presumably because the op and the other remaining tenants are refusing to pay the full rental, nor have they as of yet got a tenant to take the repaired room. Simples.

Still doesn't give the landlord the right to interfere. He can issue them a notice of arrears if there is a joint lease, but he cannot place a new tenant in the house if the current tenants (and departed friend) have a lease for the entire house.

davo10

athtrasna wrote: »

Still doesn't give the landlord the right to interfere. He can issue them a notice of arrears if there is a joint lease, but he cannot place a new tenant in the house if the current tenants (and departed friend) have a lease for the entire house.

Op said he contacted other housemates about it, presumably to ask permission, op seems put out by the fact that they were contacted and he wasn't. Also, in the OP's above post, he states that LL communicated with them to discuss "options to fill room".

athtrasna

davo10 wrote: »

Op said he contacted other housemates about it, presumably to ask permission, op seems put out by the fact that they were contacted and he wasn't.

To arrange "viewing and possible signing" - the LL has no right to do this. The correct thing to do would be to issue the named tenants on the lease with a notice of arrears if the full rent wasn't paid.

davo10

athtrasna wrote: »

To arrange "viewing and possible signing" - the LL has no right to do this. The correct thing to do would be to issue the named tenants on the lease with a notice of arrears if the full rent wasn't paid.

"-eventually leak is fixed, other issues outstanding. LL is on to us immediately about options to fill room and raise rent"

Note "options" , the "s" means plural.

athtrasna

davo10 wrote: »

"-eventually leak is fixed, other issues outstanding. LL is on to us immediately about options to fill room and raise rent"

Note "options" , the "s" means plural.

To which the OP then replied with a potential candidate, responding to the contact from the landlord about filling the room.

Again, even if the tenants did nothing about replacing the departed tenant, (and presuming the contract is for the house, yet to be clarified by the OP) the landlord can give "options" all night but has no right to impose a tenant if there is a single lease for the property.

Kevface91

davo10 wrote: »

But you said he contacted the other housemates about the viewing, does everything have to be run by you? The room is fixed so full rent is now due from those remaining there, or stop wasting time and get somebody else in, you can't have it both ways. If you refuse to pay, a notice of eviction will not be long coming, you may feel you have the moral high ground but non payment of rent is a justifiable cause for eviction.

Davo, I don't know what I did in some previous life to give you such a bad opinion of me, but you have been attacking me in all bar your first post here, and havent even addressed my OP, which was "what are MY rights as a tenant, given that (a) there are still issues to be fixed, and (b) the landlord is ignoring communication with me?"
And FYI, the LL has had no complaints with our handling of the situation, so please stop acting like I am abusing him. We have been very forthcoming and responsive in all communications from him, and he has never had need to give us warnings.

Kevface91

OK lets simplify this. say for example I am currently in a one year lease, and something is broken since I moved in, e.g. a door. I have asked the LL multiple times to fix this, even though it is not a major issue (i.e. not an entrance), but he has fobbed us off, and doesnt answer communications.

What would my rights be? Does the LL have to fix this if it is not an imminent danger? and if so,what courses can I take to ensure it gets fixed, if he will not communicate?

athtrasna

Kevface91 wrote: »

OK lets simplify this. say for example I am currently in a one year lease, and something is broken since I moved in, e.g. a door. I have asked the LL multiple times to fix this, even though it is not a major issue (i.e. not an entrance), but he has fobbed us off, and doesnt answer communications.

What would my rights be? Does the LL have to fix this if it is not an imminent danger? and if so,what courses can I take to ensure it gets fixed, if he will not communicate?

But you're not. And you have yet to clarify who's on the lease and whether it is for the house or just a room so the landlord's obligations to you aren't clear because in the scheme of things we don't know who you are.

There are certain issues a landlord is obliged to act on, electrical, gas issues etc. The rest a good landlord will act on but many won't. If something was wrong when you moved in you shouldn't have moved in as in doing so you remove the landlord's incentive to fix the issue.

Kevface91

yeah, sorry, I felt we were getting sidetracked here. Anyway as i specified earlier in the thread it is a joint lease (or was? we continued to pay rolling monthly under part 4 tenency when the lease expired. during leak other roommate notified LL that he was moving out, LL was happy to let the rest stay on at individual rates).

I'm open to clarification, but I didnt think it mattered if the lease was group or individual in regards to the LL's responsibility to repair issues in a timely manner. And my understanding from the Minimum Standards For Rented Housing would indeed apply to my example above, even though I feel you guys are telling me i have no case?
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

....specify that roofs, roofing tiles, slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascias, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas must be maintained in good condition and repair. They must not be defective due to dampness or otherwise.

athtrasna

Kevface91 wrote: »

yeah, sorry, I felt we were getting sidetracked here. Anyway as i specified earlier in the thread it is a joint lease (or was? we continued to pay rolling monthly under part 4 tenency when the lease expired. during leak other roommate notified LL that he was moving out, LL was happy to let the rest stay on at individual rates).

I'm open to clarification, but I didnt think it mattered if the lease was group or individual in regards to the LL's responsibility to repair issues in a timely manner. And my understanding from the Minimum Standards For Rented Housing would indeed apply to my example above, even though I feel you guys are telling me i have no case?
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

Three things

1. Leave the moderating to the mods. It's not up to you to tell other posters what to do.
2. You shouldn't change from a full house let to a per room let without having a new lease. Your agreement with the landlord, and the landlord's right to impose a tenant in the house, is materially altered. It may qualify as a new tenancy. That's if this actually is the case and the landlord has bizarrely agreed to take the risk of changing the rent from having jointly liable tenants to having single tenants responsible for just the rent of their room.
3. If you feel you have an issue with housing standards, report it to the council as per the link you quoted by all means. Making a report for non vital repairs does not give you the right to withold rent

Kevface91

athtrasna wrote: »

Three things

1. Leave the moderating to the mods. It's not up to you to tell other posters what to do.
2. You shouldn't change from a full house let to a per room let without having a new lease. Your agreement with the landlord, and the landlord's right to impose a tenant in the house, is materially altered. It may qualify as a new tenancy. That's if this actually is the case and the landlord has bizarrely agreed to take the risk of changing the rent from having jointly liable tenants to having single tenants responsible for just the rent of their room.
3. If you feel you have an issue with housing standards, report it to the council as per the link you quoted by all means. Making a report for non vital repairs does not give you the right to withold rent

1) what did i tell anyone to do? you mean asking to get back to my initial point? I hoped the situation didn't merit getting a moderator involved.
2) Fair point. My understanding is that currently, the rest of us are jointly responsible, save the cost of the last room which was long-term uninhabitable. now its fixed, a new joint lease will presumably be made with the new tenant, but I don't know until I sit down with the landlord.
3) (a) I'm simply asking for clarification,help, people with similar experience,
and (b) I'm on not threatening to withold rent- I'm asking for advice on how best to resolve a situation where I have a breach of LL's responsibilities, and he won't communicate.

athtrasna

Kevface91 wrote: »

1) what did i tell anyone to do? you mean asking to get back to my initial point? I hoped the situation didn't merit getting a moderator involved.
2) Fair point. My understanding is that currently, the rest of us are jointly responsible, save the cost of the last room which was long-term uninhabitable. now its fixed, a new joint lease will presumably be made with the new tenant, but I don't know until I sit down with the landlord.
3) (a) I'm simply asking for clarification,help, people with similar experience,
and (b) I'm on not threatening to withold rent- I'm asking for advice on how best to resolve a situation where I have a breach of LL's responsibilities, and he won't communicate.

1. If in doubt, read the forum charter stickied on the home page of A&P
2. The rest of you (and the departed tenant) as the signatories of the lease are liable for the entire rent. Not paying the entire rent for the property = witholding rent. If the rent is for the entire property the landlord has no right to impose a tenant.
3. If you have a concern over housing standards take it to the council as per the previous link. Each case is different