Non technical i.t roles? anyone made the move?

dingdangdoo22

Hey,

So im thinking of moving away from the tech side of things but not too sure which direction i want to take. Currently working as an infrastructure engineer with about 6 yrs exp. I just dont really have the passion( prob ever did)and its catching up with me, keeping up to date with tech kind of bores me and geting certs has kinda lost its appeal now. I would like a role which still kinda has an element of i.t in it but too much. Anyone moved away from i.t to a more business role or even another area all together? Doubtful i will go back to third level doing a degree as couldnt afford it anyway. I need some sort of transition role whereby my salary wont go down by much but that i also enjoy.
Any feedback much appreciated.:)

Enigma IE

You could look at project management / technical project management. Your IT skills / experience will help, but your not hands-on anymore.

seamus

Yeah, I.T. project management or people management is probably the way to go if that's how you're feeling. Consulting roles or hands-off roles like I.T. Architect still require someone who keeps up to date.

Lots of people just kind of push themselves into management roles by taking team lead positions and moving up from there, but a master's degree in Information Systems Management or (ugh) an MBA is often what people do when they specifically want to move into management.

ibstar

I think you should look into IT BA roles.

Speedwell

I've been an IT database admin, trainer, and project management specialist for 10 years. Learned my first bit of SQL last week.

irishgrover

Speedwell wrote: »

I've been an IT database admin,.................Learned my first bit of SQL last week.

that is impressive and scary in equal measures :-)

Speedwell

irishgrover wrote: »

that is impressive and scary in equal measures :-)

Eh, not really. I was in the oil industry, in a huge multinational corporation you have likely never heard of because they don't make the news a lot. But we had a six-member crack team to support our engineering database, and only the boss and one of the team members had any programming knowledge at all. I did most of the user-facing support, and asked my colleague when we had a ticket requiring actual SQL work. Here's what's scarier: None of us had any official training on either the database program or on SQL itself. We were four oilfield engineers, a guy from finance, and (here's the pants-wetting part) a classically trained pianist. (twiddles fingers...) Don't even ask me how I backed into the role; I think it was because my boss at the time was what amounted to the betatester, and I wrote the first user documentation.

ibstar

Speedwell wrote: »

.

almost in similar position here for past while.
I've no IT degree, but used to pull a lot of data from various databases which were pretty much automated.
It was all fun and games until the dept changes the codes for contracts, or some data doesn't match the forecasts, or customer changes etc.
I used to spend my evenings on forums (I still thank stackexchange for its existence) looking for solutions in how to query SQL as well as read/fix VBA
This should sound scary,considering I work for a very big multinational IT company and I was a graduate at the time

IvoryTower

It can be quite daunting to work in IT and not be technical, thankfully most employers can't tell the difference!

ejabrod

I've made the move from Python dev and Linux admin to a non-technical role (Scrum Master) with a view to moving to either a PO or PM role in the future.

It is different and mainly people management, time management (of project delivery) etc....

Speedwell

ejabrod wrote: »

I've made the move from Python dev and Linux admin to a non-technical role (Scrum Master) with a view to moving to either a PO or PM role in the future.

It is different and mainly people management, time management (of project delivery) etc....

People with the kind of mind that makes a good engineer do well in PM. In fact I'm changing careers and taking courses toward an honors degree in mechanical engineering.

dingdangdoo22

Enigma IE wrote: »

You could look at project management / technical project management. Your IT skills / experience will help, but your not hands-on anymore.

what would be the best way of geting into a PM role, im guessing a cert like pmp or similar would be a good start.

dingdangdoo22

ibstar wrote: »

I think you should look into IT BA roles.

yeah i did think about i.t business analyst role. do you think the transition could be fairly easy for me? wheres the best place to start?

Speedwell

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

yeah i did think about i.t business analyst role. do you think the transition could be fairly easy for me? wheres the best place to start?

That was my actual job title, for what it was worth (I would value it as a plugged nickel).

Start by contacting job placement agencies, I'd say. Contact a lot of them. They know what BAs are being requested to do these days. It's a pretty wide open definition.

Diemos

IvoryTower wrote: »

It can be quite daunting to work in IT and not be technical, thankfully most employers can't tell the difference!

TBH, if you are not technical then you have no business being in I.T.

I know, we all know non techy people who work in I.T. but just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I don't work in medicine because I've no interest / don't have the aptitude for it.

Sadly, there are far too many people working in fields which they hate.

OP, if you don't like it, move.

To quote the cinematic masterpiece that is Gone in 60 second (remake) :

"Sh!t, I can't swim, I know I can't.
So you know what I do?
I stay my black ass out the pool!"

dingdangdoo22

thinking something around this

http://www.irishjobs.ie/Jobs/IS-Business-Analyst-7635450.aspx

Speedwell

Diemos wrote: »

TBH if you are not technical then you have no business being in I.T.

Oh, don't listen to that nonsense. I made almost 65K EUR in that job when I was caught in a ten percent layoff of the entire international workforce at my company. Odds are Diemos (s/b "Deimos"?) doesn't make that.

Dingdangdoo, that job description is a bit rich for a starter BA. I have a lot of experience but I wouldn't feel qualified myself. There are lots of BA positions that require less in the way of qualifications that still pay well.

dingdangdoo22

Speedwell wrote: »

Oh, don't listen to that nonsense. I made almost 65K EUR in that job when I was caught in a ten percent layoff of the entire international workforce at my company. Odds are Diemos (s/b "Deimos"?) doesn't make that.

Dingdangdoo, that job description is a bit rich for a starter BA. I have a lot of experience but I wouldn't feel qualified myself. There are lots of BA positions that require less in the way of qualifications that still pay well.

dont suppose you could link to a few examples?

Speedwell

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

dont suppose you could link to a few examples?

Can't link, I'm too new to the forum and it won't let me. I was thinking of jobs I've applied for in the past 6 months, though.

Diemos

Speedwell wrote: »

Oh, don't listen to that nonsense. I made almost 65K EUR in that job when I was caught in a ten percent layoff of the entire international workforce at my company. Odds are Diemos (s/b "Deimos"?) doesn't make that.

65k doing a job that you were woefully unskilled at (your words not mine). Imagine someone who was skilled, trained and had an interest in the area would make.

Speedwell

Diemos wrote: »

65k doing a job that you were woefully unskilled at (your words not mine). Imagine someone who was skilled, trained and had an interest in the area would make.

I did it for over 10 years. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

IvoryTower

Diemos wrote: »

65k doing a job that you were woefully unskilled at (your words not mine). Imagine someone who was skilled, trained and had an interest in the area would make.

I imagine the employer had a value on the role so even if you had magical IT powers your probably would've earned the same

Enigma IE

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

what would be the best way of geting into a PM role, im guessing a cert like pmp or similar would be a good start.

Personally I would recommend Prince2 over PMP. I did Prince2 Foundation & Practicioner in 5 days. There's a huge amount of content to cover, but a lot of common sense. Prince2 is the widely used in Ireland and UK. PMP mostly used in U.S., or US companies as far as I know.

boobar

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

Hey,

So im thinking of moving away from the tech side of things but not too sure which direction i want to take. Currently working as an infrastructure engineer with about 6 yrs exp. I just dont really have the passion( prob ever did)and its catching up with me, keeping up to date with tech kind of bores me and geting certs has kinda lost its appeal now. I would like a role which still kinda has an element of i.t in it but too much. Anyone moved away from i.t to a more business role or even another area all together? Doubtful i will go back to third level doing a degree as couldnt afford it anyway. I need some sort of transition role whereby my salary wont go down by much but that i also enjoy.
Any feedback much appreciated.:)

Sounds like Project Management might work.

You've done the job, now you can move on to management of the people doing the job.

You could try complete a Prince2 management course. 3 days for Foundation...2 more days for Practitioner.

Have a look at ITIL as well, although that will take more time and effort for sure...

dingdangdoo22

boobar wrote: »

Sounds like Project Management might work.

You've done the job, now you can move on to management of the people doing the job.

You could try complete a Prince2 management course. 3 days for Foundation...2 more days for Practitioner.

Have a look at ITIL as well, although that will take more time and effort for sure...

i have the ITILv3 foundation allready, although i have never used it practically!
i got it because most tech jobs these days are looking for it and its another HR tick. Prince2 could be worth looking at alright, is it easier than ITIL?
is the prince2 well respected?

Diemos

Prince 2, I found much tougher than ITIL. Foundation is fine, but Practitioner was a challenge.
Try to sit both in the same week if you can. When I sat the Practitioner a number of people, who only came in for the Practitioner element, having completed foundation in the weeks/months prior, did not even show up for the exam.

If you are not working in a Prince 2 environment, it uses it's own lexicon, and that can be more of a challenge than understanding the concepts behind the framework itself.

If you are paying for it off your own back don't forget to claim your tax back on it.

Good luck.

Stheno

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

i have the ITILv3 foundation allready, although i have never used it practically!
i got it because most tech jobs these days are looking for it and its another HR tick. Prince2 could be worth looking at alright, is it easier than ITIL?
is the prince2 well respected?

PRINCE2 is well respected but having done both ITIL and PRINCE2 I would consider PRINCE2 far more difficult than ITIL foundation

THe practitioner exam has some bizarrely structured questions

moc moc a moc

Speedwell wrote: »

I did it for over 10 years. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

You ended up getting canned after 10 years. The rest of us want career security.

Speedwell

moc moc a moc wrote: »

You ended up getting canned after 10 years. The rest of us want career security.

I was made redundant, not "canned after 10 years". The director of IT made it clear that he didn't want to lose me, but I had already survived three layoffs.

Enigma IE

Agree, the Prince2 Foundation was reasonably straight-forward. You spend 2.5 days covering the course material (lots), sit the exam in afternoon of day 3. You can only proceed to Day 4/5 if you pass Foundation exam.

For the Practitioner, assuming your doing Foundation & Practitioner over 5 days, you spend Day 4 doing practice exams. Then on Day 5, you get a case study as the actual exam and apply the methodology you learn from Days 1-3. It's really quite challenging, I was relieved to pass it myself.

dingdangdoo22

would the prince2 be good for an i.t business analyst role?

Speedwell

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

would the prince2 be good for an i.t business analyst role?

Absolutely. If I were to continue in project management here in Ireland, I would go for that first. My current job is teaching me to program, though, so I guess I'm not going in that direction anymore.

Stheno

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

would the prince2 be good for an i.t business analyst role?

There are specific business analysis courses, such as the foundation in business analysis.

If you've not experience of either PRINCE2 or BA, it's' the easier option

dingdangdoo22

Speedwell wrote: »

Absolutely. If I were to continue in project management here in Ireland, I would go for that first. My current job is teaching me to program, though, so I guess I'm not going in that direction anymore.

nice one, i might crack on with the prince2 foundation so, possibly practitioner after that. it cant do any harm to have a pm cert on the cv anyway.
i think the hardest part for me will be to get a start in one of these roles with no exp. but then again its all common sense right!:)

dingdangdoo22

Stheno wrote: »

There are specific business analysis courses, such as the foundation in business analysis.

If you've not experience of either PRINCE2 or BA, it's' the easier option

not sure if im looking for the easier option, done a bit of research on the prince2 and it doesnt seem impossible (at least the foundation anyway)
I will self study.

Enigma IE

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

not sure if im looking for the easier option, done a bit of research on the prince2 and it doesnt seem impossible (at least the foundation anyway)
I will self study.

Foundation isn't bad, the practitioner is tough. Also practitioner is open book, but you can lose a lot of time looking at it so use sparingly. Foundation is closed book.

boobar

dingdangdoo22 wrote: »

i have the ITILv3 foundation allready, although i have never used it practically!
i got it because most tech jobs these days are looking for it and its another HR tick. Prince2 could be worth looking at alright, is it easier than ITIL?
is the prince2 well respected?

Well, Prince2 you can complete in 5 days and if you keep your head together during the course you can pass with very little extra work in my view.

I completed all of the Itil certifications up to and including Expert level. 23 days of course attendance with a similar amount of time studying the material. Not difficult in my view, but people did fail the tests and had to resit. I completed all of them over a year and a half, but I know one guy who completed the lot in 6 months.

Eoin

It looks like I am on my own here, but I don't think Prince2 is that useful unless you're working, or want to work somewhere that definitely uses Prince2. It doesn't teach you any project management skills, other than how to follow a very specific process. If you were working somewhere that didn't use it, I don't know how much of it would be useful on a day-to-day basis.

It won't do you any harm, but if you're starting out, I think a more generic PM course would be more useful.