Mandatory Hot Desking on a Daily Basis

LegacyUser

I've just started a new office based job. I've had three temporary but full time office roles before and in each case I had my own allocated desk and computer. However, at my new employer, a 'clean desk' policy is being introduced, where there will not be enough work stations for every employee - they are going on the theory that someone will always be out meeting clients or on leave etc. and in this way they are cutting their rent costs. The expectation is that all items will be cleared into lockers every day and that anyone should be able to sit at any desk. I'm wondering

1) Is this a common system in Ireland these days for staff who are in the office on an almost daily basis and not just occasionally?

and

2) does this not have health and safety implications and do I have any rights to oppose it under employer health and safety regulations? (The company is global, so I wonder if they are fully aware of Irish regulations)

I have suffered from severe eye strain in the past from sustained periods of computer use and the optician suggested I buy an anti glare screen as one mitigating measure (in addition to taking more breaks etc). However, if I or the employer invests in an anti glare screen now - I might find I put it on one monitor and someone else is sitting there the next day! I also currently have a neck and shoulder problem and have had back problems in the past - and this kind of thing is obviously exacerbated by having screens at the wrong height or angle or the desk height wrong etc. How is anyone supposed to have a good ergonomic set up if the seating arrangements are changing every day?

dudara

We have a hot desk / clean desk policy at work.

AFAIK, employees with genuine ergonomic issues are catered to and can "reserve" a seat with their particular setup. I'd say to talk to the Health & Safety officer who will help arrange this.

davo10

Be very careful how you do it, you are new and this is the working model they have decided to go with, if you cannot adapt from the outset, they may not be inclined to employ you in the longterm.

SeantheMan

We had this model in a previous job of mine.
It was also to do with the fact that it was staffed 24/7 , so shift workers would be changing desks constantly.
There were also multiple teams and vendors who would need use of the desks.

The only issue that ever arose was people clogging up the computers with their crap because too many people would share the machine over a certain period.

3DataModem

SeantheMan wrote: »

We had this model in a previous job of mine.
It was also to do with the fact that it was staffed 24/7 , so shift workers would be changing desks constantly.
There were also multiple teams and vendors who would need use of the desks.

The only issue that ever arose was people clogging up the computers with their crap because too many people would share the machine over a certain period.

My staff generally all hot desk as they are shift workers. Hot dealing doesn't really work unless staff-specific laptops or VDIs are used.

Monife

They do this in government departments in London. Sounds like an absolute nightmare!

Definitely speak with HR/Health and Safety Officer regarding your needs, if there isn't legislation covering "hot desking" or whatever it is, there is certainly legislation concerning disability in the workplace.

hardCopy

I've had this in a previous job. Health and Safety was taken very seriously. All chairs and monitors were adjustable. Nobody was allowed to work directly from their laptop, you had to use the monitor, keyboard and mouse provided. Training on how to adjust your monitor was mandatory.

Could you store a glare protector in your locker and just attach it each morning?

pwurple

More common on the continent than here for office workers. I've worked in a couple of places that did it, they didn't have lockers either. Just desks.

I didn't find it too bad really, but I travel light anyway... It encourages people to be paperless, which is great. I'm all for it.

I've also worked in places where there are "standing" hot desks as well. No chairs. You get a large shelf with some sockets, that you put your laptop on. It was supposed to be ergonomically better for you to be standing than sitting.

Stheno

pwurple wrote: »

I didn't find it too bad really, but I travel light anyway... It encourages people to be paperless, which is great. I'm all for it.

I've also worked in places where there are "standing" hot desks as well. No chairs. You get a large shelf with some sockets, that you put your laptop on. It was supposed to be ergonomically better for you to be standing than sitting.

I've had the same experience, including the standing desks

Three places I've worked in used it as standard, all equipment (chairs/desk) were height adjustable, and we had risers, monitors, keyboards and mice that we had to use with our laptops.

I'm struggling to think of how you could make a case for it breaking health and safety regulations tbh, and as previously said, given that you are new, you need to tread carefully

Monife

Stheno wrote: »

I've had the same experience, including the standing desks

Three places I've worked in used it as standard, all equipment (chairs/desk) were height adjustable, and we had risers, monitors, keyboards and mice that we had to use with our laptops.

I'm struggling to think of how you could make a case for it breaking health and safety regulations tbh, and as previously said, given that you are new, you need to tread carefully

It would break health and safety regulations if a person had a disability that requires them to be seated, for example arthritis.

Stheno

Monife wrote: »

It would break health and safety regulations if a person had a disability that requires them to be seated, for example arthritis.

For sure if it's standing desks, but I think the OP is in desks that are seated?

Monife

Stheno wrote: »

For sure if it's standing desks, but I think the OP is in desks that are seated?

They may require a special seat, ergonomic keyboard or joystick mouse, to name a few.

Stheno

Monife wrote: »

They may require a special seat, ergonomic keyboard or joystick mouse, to name a few.

Those can all be accomodated within a hot desk environment to be fair.

Monife

Stheno wrote: »

Those can all be accomodated within a hot desk environment to be fair.

If at the same desk all the time. You would hardly be expected to store your own mouse and keyboard every day and take it out again every day and you couldn't store a chair in your locker so someone could be sitting in it when you arrive into work.

Stheno

Monife wrote: »

If at the same desk all the time. You would hardly be expected to store your own mouse and keyboard every day and take it out again every day and you couldn't store a chair in your locker so someone could be sitting in it when you arrive into work.

Yes, so OP needs to firstly see if they can tolerate the arrangements, and then ask for an occupational health assessment if they are having issues.

I had to have one where I worked in a hotdesk environment, and every effort was made to accomodate my needs (nothing special tbh, but it was taken seriously)

If OP goes in with a tone such as their first post, it may rankle however, so they need to tread carefully, especially as they are new and just on probation

There's a balance to aim for here.

JigglyMcJabs

UpsetHotDesker wrote: »

I've just started a new office based job. I've had three temporary but full time office roles before and in each case I had my own allocated desk and computer. However, at my new employer, a 'clean desk' policy is being introduced, where there will not be enough work stations for every employee - they are going on the theory that someone will always be out meeting clients or on leave etc. and in this way they are cutting their rent costs. The expectation is that all items will be cleared into lockers every day and that anyone should be able to sit at any desk. I'm wondering

1) Is this a common system in Ireland these days for staff who are in the office on an almost daily basis and not just occasionally?

Yes, common enough, particularly in consulting or IT services or where people are allowed to work from home.

UpsetHotDesker wrote: »

2) does this not have health and safety implications and do I have any rights to oppose it under employer health and safety regulations? (The company is global, so I wonder if they are fully aware of Irish regulations)

I have suffered from severe eye strain in the past from sustained periods of computer use and the optician suggested I buy an anti glare screen as one mitigating measure (in addition to taking more breaks etc). However, if I or the employer invests in an anti glare screen now - I might find I put it on one monitor and someone else is sitting there the next day! I also currently have a neck and shoulder problem and have had back problems in the past - and this kind of thing is obviously exacerbated by having screens at the wrong height or angle or the desk height wrong etc. How is anyone supposed to have a good ergonomic set up if the seating arrangements are changing every day?

No health and safety implications, because every workstation is supposed to meet health and safety standards. If you have a medical issue and can bring in a cert, I'm sure the company will support you, within reason.

Mrs OBumble

Monife wrote: »

If at the same desk all the time. You would hardly be expected to store your own mouse and keyboard every day and take it out again every day and you couldn't store a chair in your locker so someone could be sitting in it when you arrive into work.

Of course you could store a mouse and keyboard every day! Just unplug at the end of the day, put them in the box/locker, and replug wherever you're sitting the next day. Simples.

The chair could either be labelled as specifically yours, or you could just learn to adjust any chair so it meets your needs.

Stheno

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Of course you could store a mouse and keyboard every day! Just unplug at the end of the day, put them in the box/locker, and replug wherever you're sitting the next day. Simples.

The chair could either be labelled as specifically yours, or you could just learn to adjust any chair so it meets your needs.

Actually you've reminded me of the last place I worked in a few months ago where hotdesking was standard.

We all had lockers, and rightly enough, anyone with "special" equipment that they didn't want others using just loaded it into their lockers at the end of the day, especially if they weren't going to be in the next day.

Don't think anyone had a unique chair, but you could adjust the standard chairs about six ways!

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone. I understand it would require one to tread carefully, that's why I was asking for advice.
It's true the chairs do seem to be adjustable, at least for height. At the moment my main monitor isn't, but a lot of people probably do have adjustable ones. Either way though, it still seems like an inefficient system to me because it would take time every day to do that adjusting and can be hard to get it right.
I understand the points made above about disability etc and what I'm talking about is really more minor than that, but I take issue with the idea of 'genuine ergonomic issues' - as ergonomics impacts everyone. The people with no particular problems now might still have them in a few years as a result of a poor ergonomics.

I also find the following links from the Health and Safety Authority interesting. My reading is that the requirement seems to be for personalised assessments to get positioning right and not just ensuring that equipment in general is adjustable?

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Display_Screen_Equipment/Display_Screen_Equipment.html#analysis
How should a workstation analysis or risk assessment be carried out?
"There are four stages in the risk assessment process:

Stage 1: Initial consultation with the employee

As a first step you (or the person who is conducting the risk assessment) should consult with the employee at the workstation in order to collect information on the main tasks completed at the workstation. It is important to provide the employee with an opportunity to comment during the course of the assessment.

Stage 2: Observation of the employee working at the computer workstation

You should observe the employee working at the workstation and should record whether the workstation meets the minimum requirements detailed in Schedule 4 of the Display Screen Equipment Regulation. These requirements can be incorporated into the risk assessment form as a checklist and you can indicate compliance or non-compliance as appropriate. The picture below shows an example of a poor workstation set up:"


http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Display_Screen_Equipment/Display_Screen_Equipment.html#suitable
If I move from one workstation to another am I entitled to a new workstation assessment?
Yes. There will be situations where employees will move to a new workstation due to changing work commitments. The employer needs to carry out a new workstation assessment at the employees new workstation. A system should exist that when changes such as this take place a formal request is submitted to have a new workstation assessment carried out. The analysis should take account of any changes in equipment or technology.

[back to question list]

Mrs OBumble

OP, are you actually doing copy typing or data-entry, ie work that genuinely does have repetitive aspects? This is what the risk assessment would flag - what's the chances of your actually developing an occupational-overuse issue, given the actual work you do.

In the days when people spent literally hours copy typing, it was a big issue. In call-centre jobs, where there's a fast pace and data entry, ditto.

But in many office jobs today, it's different. It rare that I type for more than 5 minutes without stopping to think or to research something. Totally different risk profile.

Kenny Bania

Lego do the Hot Desk thing - saw it on a C4 documentary a few months ago.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-secret-world-of-lego

smurfjed

I'm slightly confused as there are lots of jobs such as mine that would be considered "hot seating" and we cannot leave any items in the work place, we are also required to adjust the seat height and location to match the monitors.

So while ergonomics comes into this, i dont see where health and safety is involved?

seamus

smurfjed wrote: »

So while ergonomics comes into this, i dont see where health and safety is involved?

Personally I would argue that where hot-desking involved the use of docking stations with keyboard/mouse attached, there is potentially a health hazard there in the constant sharing of unsanitised work stations.

But if they're just empty desks and cleaners come along and give them a spray and a wipe in the evenings, then I don't see the issue.

Some people also do have some very specific personal requirements. The positioning of the monitor being one - many people frequently experience neck pain from incorrectly positioned monitors, which can lead to longer term RSI neck problems or migraines. So while it's all well and good having a monitor that you can reposition at every hotdesk, for some people it's not that simple.