Buying a UK/NI reg from a private seller that needs VRT'd ?

umop apisdn

There's a load of private sellers with NI/UK reg cars for sale on done deal.
Some actually private, some probably posing as private.
I know the official line is an imported UK/NI car must be cleared as soon as it enters the state, or a legit dealer may display one for sale without clearing it, if he removes the plates etc.

So if someone did buy a UK /NI reg from a private seller in the Republic, how do they then get the VRT paid legitimately ? Or does the buyer have to lie and say its only just been imported? I for one wouldn't be prepared to do that, and I imagine a lot of people wouldn't, so who buys these cars ? They're taking a chance surely.

bazz26

Technically it's illegal for a private individual to sell a foreign registered car here to an Irish resident here without first paying the VRT and registering it here. In reality like alot of laws in this country enforcement does't exist. The likes of donedeal are full of guys selling them, a small few are those who cannot afford the VRT, some are wheeler dealers flipping cars over for a profit on the qt while others are shady characters selling dodgy motors with hidden pasts.

I'd imagine new buyer gets or does up a receipt saying when they bought it and from whom. Up to Revenue then to pursue the seller which they probably wouldn't unless they appear on their radar every week and even that would be difficult.

Ultimately though the smart thing to do is for the buyer to do proper due diligence before buying rather than just jumping and not looking where you land. If there wasn't a market for this sort of thing then it would not exist.

umop apisdn

bazz26 wrote: »

In reality like alot of laws in this country enforcement does't exist.

That's Ireland for you, some of the most complicated regulations in the world, but also the least enforcement in the world. A nightmare for anyone who tries to do things legitimately, and a scumbags paradise.

bazz26 wrote: »

Ultimately though the smart thing to do is for the buyer to do proper due diligence before buying rather than just jumping and not looking where you land. If there wasn't a market for this sort of thing then it would not exist.

That's good advice that apply's to all cars. Hard to imagine the situation where a private seller goes to the bother of importing a genuine car, tries it out, and then decides it's not for them, and apparently still hasn't the cash to VRT it in the first place.

So you're saying, in practice, it's the sellers responsibility to comply with VRT, and that as long as the buyer gets a receipt from the seller with that day's date, and then VRT's the car straight away, he should be ok ?

Sounds very chancey to me.

Also what's that crowd in Antrim like that keeps advertising NI reg cars down here on done deal, do they take southern trade ins ? and do they VRT and reg the cars for buyers from the south ? (Yes, before someone says it, I know in theory done deal is an all Ireland site, but in pracitice most people in NI use other classified advertising sites)

jcd5971

bought all my cars over the years from uk.

its no big deal you can even check on revenue website what the vrt will be on the vehicle your buying.
buy it over there bring it back here. pay the vrt change plates done and done simples, I think there are even vrt offices in some of the nct centres if your unsure use car tell or the like or even check chasis numbers and check in a police station is it missng stolen etc. i have saved thousands over the years

umop apisdn

jcd5971 wrote: »

bought all my cars over the years from uk.

its no big deal you can even check on revenue website what the vrt will be on the vehicle your buying.
buy it over there bring it back here. pay the vrt change plates done and done simples, I think there are even vrt offices in some of the nct centres if your unsure use car tell or the like or even check chasis numbers and check in a police station is it missng stolen etc. i have saved thousands over the years

When sterling was better, I've brought in a couple of cars over the years for myself, for my own use, and always paid the VRT straight away. That's not what I'm asking though.

I'm asking how a private buyer can manage to legally reg and VRT a foreign import he bought off a private seller in Ireland, a private seller who obviously didn't advertise, VRT and register the vehicle accordance with the law. It might even have been in Ireland for months / years, so how does the new buyer get away with registering it when the law states it must be registered right way as soon as its imported ? Even if you get a receipt from the previous seller (effectively admitted that he broke the law) and present the receipt at the counter, you're taking some chance buying it and hoping to get it registered. They only other way I can think of people doing it, is to forge a UK garage receipt, or the date on one.

bazz26

I don't think that is what the OP is asking as there is a sticky at the top of this forum for how to buy in the UK. The OP is referring to donedeal chancers selling UK registered cars from the side of the road or public car parks.

jcd5971

umop apisdn wrote: »

I've brought in a couple of cars over the years for myself, for my own use, and always paid the VRT straight away. That's not what I'm asking though.

I'm asking how a private seller can manage to legally reg and VRT a foreign import he bought off a private seller in Ireland, a private seller who obviously didn't advertise, VRT and register it in accordance with the law. It might even have been in Ireland for months / years, so how does the new buyer get away with registering it when the law states it must be registered right way as soon as its imported ?

ok got you, well receipts log books etc so when you o to vrt ofice and register it they can see you are compliant with law as you purchased the vehicle and then went to register it, as to what recourse they take against the seller i couldnt say but guess none, as long as itis not being driven on irish roads on brit plates how would they be caught.

incidentely i did once get stopped in meath bring a uk car home from uk, showed receipts lg books and expalined i had only bought it, i was informed that you will get a few weeks lee way to reg the vehicle,

hope that helps a bit

bazz26

In that case the buyer is doing nothing wrong as they have only bought the car and is going through the legitimate process of VRTing it. However they need to give revenue a purchase receipt to show when they bought it.

If you want to avoid all this then buy a car from a legitimate garage who will VRT, register it on your behalf or import one from outside the State yourself.

umop apisdn

jcd5971 wrote: »

ok got you, well receipts log books etc so when you o to vrt ofice and register it they can see you are compliant with law as you purchased the vehicle and then went to register it, as to what recourse they take against the seller i couldnt say but guess none, as long as itis not being driven on irish roads on brit plates how would they be caught.

incidentely i did once get stopped in meath bring a uk car home from uk, showed receipts lg books and expalined i had only bought it, i was informed that you will get a few weeks lee way to reg the vehicle,

hope that helps a bit

Thanks for answer, but the law is clear, the vehicle must be registered as soon as its imported into the state, so you're taking some chance turning up a the counter with a car that's been imported months ago. So are you saying they are not checking the UK receipt dates, or they don't care what the UK receipt dates say, or they will accept some sort of admission note / receipt from the previous Irish seller, effectively admitted he broke the law ?

umop apisdn

bazz26 wrote: »

In that case the buyer is doing nothing wrong as they have only bought the car and is going through the legitimate process of VRTing it. However they need to give revenue a purchase receipt to show when they bought it.

You're getting to my point, this requires 1) the previous private seller to provide one, with todays date
2) Which is an effectively an admission that he broke the law, by importing a foreign reg vechilce and not VRTing it right away and then selling it on.

Anyone turning up at the counter is taking some chance, or is a blind eye turned to all this, if so what's the point of the regs in the first place ?

bazz26

If you want to stay technical to the letter of the law then an Irish resident should not be buying a foreign registered car from a private individual here in the first place. The time to ask questions is when buying the car rather than when turning up at the VRT desk.

bazz26

Lets face it, they are not going to give you a genuine receipt as it leads a paper trail back to them.

umop apisdn

bazz26 wrote: »

If you want to stay technical to the letter of the law then an Irish resident should not be buying a foreign registered car from a private individual here in the first place. The time to ask questions is when buying the car rather than when turning up at the VRT desk.

We're not talking about me, I'm asking how such cars are obviously getting sold on and legitimately registered without any problems ?

bazz26 wrote: »

Lets face it, they are not going to give you a genuine receipt as it leads a paper trail back to them.

So in other words they must be getting registered with forged receipts, is that what your're saying ?

bazz26

They are because people do not educate themselves with regulations/common sense or just ignore it for the sake of a "bargain".

bazz26

umop apisdn wrote: »

So in other words they must be getting registered with forged receipts, is that what your're saying ?

Yes.

jcd5971

umop apisdn wrote: »

Thanks for answer, but the law is clear, the vehicle must be registered as soon as its imported into the state, so you're taking some chance turning up a the counter with a car that's been imported months ago. So are you saying they are not checking the UK receipt dates, or they don't care what the UK receipt dates say, or they will accept some sort of admission note / receipt from the previous Irish seller, effectively admitted he broke the law ?

Im confused as to what you want me to say.

Ok i`ll go through the mercedes i bought.

i found a 2011 mercedes c200 amg style on done deal lots of extras for 14000 euro quick sale as owner was emigrating.

the seller was in cork.
cr was on english reg and by looks of it was used a fair bit had 4400 km put on it in 3 mnths going by service book and logbook and things.

I bought car after completuing cartell check and brought home.
organised appointment with vrt office in nct centre in ennis brought over car paid vrt 5244 euro done and dusted never even was asked a question about its lenght in ireland.

all in all car cost under 20,000 seems a bi much but for all the extras and equipment on this car its a steal. have had offers onit since and wil sell in new year as upgrading to new 2016 bmw, and im confident ill make a profit on it after driving it for 18 mnths.

umop apisdn

bazz26 wrote: »

Yes.

Thought as much.
Got it now, thanks.

OldMrBrennan83

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umop apisdn

jcd5971 wrote: »

Im confused as to what you want me to say.

Ok i`ll go through the mercedes i bought.

i found a 2011 mercedes c200 amg style on done deal lots of extras for 14000 euro quick sale as owner was emigrating.

the seller was in cork.
cr was on english reg and by looks of it was used a fair bit had 4400 km put on it in 3 mnths going by service book and logbook and things.

I bought car after completuing cartell check and brought home.
organised appointment with vrt office in nct centre in ennis brought over car paid vrt 5244 euro done and dusted never even was asked a question about its lenght in ireland.

all in all car cost under 20,000 seems a bi much but for all the extras and equipment on this car its a steal. have had offers onit since and wil sell in new year as upgrading to new 2016 bmw, and im confident ill make a profit on it after driving it for 18 mnths.

What receipt did you show, and what UK import date was on it ?

umop apisdn

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm not buying one, I'm asking how the scam works

OldMrBrennan83

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bazz26

It's not a scam, it's more a loop hole.

jcd5971

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

exactly they dont care, you could concievbaly drive it and never clear the vrt you can tax and insure it on english reg i did for 12 mnths not sure for longer period tho so im open to correction on that.

your only caught if your pulled by cops, i went through a drink drive checkpoint before on english reg, guards never brought it up.

anyway i just got a standard receipt when i bought ccar
I acknoledge mister J XXXX paid 14000 for 2011 mercedes c200 reg XXXXXX on 1-1-year signed mister Y.

went to vrt it and done

jcd5971

jcd5971 wrote: »

exactly they dont care, you could concievbaly drive it and never clear the vrt you can insure it on english reg i did for 12 mnths not sure for longer period tho so im open to correction on that.

your only caught if your pulled by cops, i went through a drink drive checkpoint before on english reg, guards never brought it up.

anyway i just got a standard receipt when i bought ccar
I acknoledge mister J XXXX paid 14000 for 2011 mercedes c200 reg XXXXXX on 1-1-year signed mister Y.

went to vrt it and done

sorry to reply to myself but i taxed and insured car for a year while on english plates, but i cleared vrt a week later, I did not drive car for a year on english plates

Also to answer your question it was a bog standard reciept it made no mention of uk purchase date or anyhting.

just stated that i had bought this car on this date for this much. vrt office seemed happy enough with it.

bazz26

How does an Irish resident tax a UK registered car either in the UK or here?

jcd5971

bazz26 wrote: »

How does an Irish resident tax a UK registered car either in the UK or here?

sorry my bad meant i insured it for the year, hence getting stopped by guards comment:)

jcd5971

umop apisdn wrote: »

I'm not buying one, I'm asking how the scam works

Are you just trying to be akward or obtuse? people are trying to explain it and you keep asking the same questions, then when we go as far to offer examples and step by step accounts you call us scammers ffs.

I have never scammed anyone I bought car legally registered it legally paid all due taxes legally, then went and got taxed legally, then insured it legally.

I may have even filled the petrol tank legally.

wheres the great scam im pulling here....:mad:

umop apisdn

bazz26 wrote: »

It's not a scam, it's more a loop hole.

So where does the forged receipt you talked about earlier come in to it ?

jcd5971

umop apisdn wrote: »

So where does the forged receipt you talked about earlier come in to it ?

There is no forged receipt, all you need is the signed dated proof of purchase, you've been told this multiple times.

umop apisdn

jcd5971 wrote: »

There is no forged receipt, all you need is the signed dated proof of purchase, you've been told this multiple times.

So take it up with the poster who said otherwise, there's no point in blaming me for asking questions about conflicting information.

umop apisdn

From Revenue

What happens if I don't register my vehicle?

It is an offence to drive an unregistered vehicle in the State. Accordingly, an unregistered vehicle may be detained by Revenue officials or by An Garda Síochána. Additionally, a vehicle may be seized by Revenue officials and may only be released on the payment of a penalty.


What happens if I forget to register within the 30-day limit?

Under current legislation, you are obliged to register your vehicle within the 30 day limit. If you fail to register your vehicle within 30 days of the vehicle entering the State, you risk having the vehicle detained. Notwithstanding this, an additional charge of VRT will be applied by Revenue at the time of registration, for the period your vehicle remained unregistered in the State.

Please note that it may not always be possible to complete the registration process on your initial visit to an NCTS Centre. Hence, in order to avoid an additional VRT charge, you should arrange an NCTS appointment as soon possible after the arrival of the vehicle in the State. The fact that an appointment was made with NCTS within the 30 day limit does not result in an extension of the 30 day time limit within which registration must be completed.


Why do I need a purchase invoice when registering a car?

The invoice confirming the date the vehicle was purchased is required as it provides an indication as to when the vehicle entered the State which is relevant for the calculation of VRT and VAT. If you have transit documents (e.g. shipping docket/receipt) relating to a vehicle acquired (e.g. in the UK), you should present them at the time of registration.

I bought privately and don't have an invoice.

You will need an invoice showing the date of purchase in order to register the vehicle. If you have bought the vehicle privately, you will still need an invoice showing details of the seller and the date on which it was sold to you.

I can't prove the date I brought the car into the country. What happens next?

If you can't prove when you brought the car into the country, then the VRT will be charged from the date of the invoice, the date of change of ownership from the foreign certificate of registration, or the date of the certificate of permanent exportation, etc. as appropriate.

jcd5971

umop apisdn wrote: »

So take it up with the poster who said otherwise

This is my final post on this thread as you seem to not want to be given an answer.

I have bought 9 cars in last 12 years in England or from Irish ppl but on brit plates I have vrtd all cars using the receipt I got when I bought the car, these receipts stated the reg of car and amount paid and date I purchased car

Using this receipt which makes no mention of import or invoice or time in Ireland.
In conjunction with log book and the fee due I have vrt completed with no issues.

This is the practice of what happens the end goodbye and good luck to you I'm out

PukkaStukka

Has anyone actually contacted the VRT people and actually asked them what happens if they have bought a UK registered card from someone in this country in good faith ? Can the car be registered? I'm sure on balance that this situation has arisen before??

umop apisdn

jcd5971 wrote: »

This is my final post on this thread as you seem to not want to be given an answer.

I have bought 9 cars in last 12 years in England or from Irish ppl but on brit plates I have vrtd all cars using the receipt I got when I bought the car, these receipts stated the reg of car and amount paid and date I purchased car

Using this receipt which makes no mention of import or invoice or time in Ireland.
In conjunction with log book and the fee due I have vrt completed with no issues.

This is the practice of what happens the end goodbye and good luck to you I'm out

Again more ranting at me for asking legitimate questions about conflicting information.
Why not take it up with them ?

I'm trying to get accurate information, that is all.

bazz26 wrote: »

If you want to stay technical to the letter of the law then an Irish resident should not be buying a foreign registered car from a private individual here in the first place.

bazz26 wrote: »

Lets face it, they are not going to give you a genuine receipt as it leads a paper trail back to them.

umop apisdn wrote: »

So in other words they must be getting registered with forged receipts, is that what your're saying ?

bazz26 wrote: »

Yes.

umop apisdn

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Has anyone actually contacted the VRT people and actually asked them what happens if they have bought a UK registered card from someone in this country in good faith ? Can the car be registered? I'm sure on balance that this situation has arisen before??

That's what I'm getting at, it seems such people are left to the mercy of the Revenue, at the very least there seems to be an additional VRT fee due for any car not registered withing 30 days of being imported into the state, and Irish residents are not supposed to sell on foreign registered vehicles privately as far as I can tell. Someday, someone is going to land at a VRT counter and be very badly stung, and the Revenue and the chancer that sold them the car, won't give two shytes. In the meantime the ordinary employee behind the counter is left with the choice of ignoring the law or enforcing it. They must feel very secure in their job if they can ignore it.

jcd5971

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Has anyone actually contacted the VRT people and actually asked them what happens if they have bought a UK registered card from someone in this country in good faith ? Can the car be registered? I'm sure on balance that this situation has arisen before??

No never seen the need as I said bought multiple cars and went into Vrt office with logbook and a receipt proving ownership and date of purchase. Always done simply most vrt staff know most people are honest and confused with process and try to help.

Calahonda52

The receipt is not being forged, what is missing is the revenue not asking for the proof of date of importation and the customer copy of the foreign transfer of ownership that in the uk goes to Swansea. They are happy to take the vrt.

PukkaStukka

jcd5971 wrote: »

No never seen the need as I said bought multiple cars and went into Vrt office with logbook and a receipt proving ownership and date of purchase. Always done simply most vrt staff know most people are honest and confused with process and try to help.

That's been my experience too. At the end of the day, I think they're unlikely to turn away a punter with a fist full of euros wanting to reregister their car.

umop apisdn

I've just checked, the VRT vehicle purchase form requires a signed declaration as to the "date of entry into the state" to be filled in , as well as and separately to, the "date of purchase".

From what I can tell, any vehicle presented for registration after 30 days of its entry into the state is by law liable for an additional VRT penalty.

The form also states "It is an offence to make a false declaration. A false declaration will result in steps to recover tax and may result in financial penalties (min. €5,000) and / or prosecution."

jcd5971

PukkaStukka wrote: »

That's been my experience too. At the end of the day, I think they're unlikely to turn away a punter with a fist full of euros wanting to reregister their car.

your right of course, youve obviously di it once ive done it 9 times and another guy here said he did thats 11 individual transactions where it is no problem so that should answer ops question,

anyway i hope a mod locks this thread soon its just going in circles now.

OldMrBrennan83

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umop apisdn

jcd5971 wrote: »

your right of course, youve obviously di it once ive done it 9 times and another guy here said he did thats 11 individual transactions where it is no problem so that should answer ops question,

anyway i hope a mod locks this thread soon its just going in circles now.

As you well know, as its already been explained to you several times, including by a mod, and which you for some reason best known to yourself, you still wish to ignore, no one is asking about vrting a vehicle presented for registration within 30 days of its entry into the state.

We're talking about vehicles advertised for sale by private sellers on done deal, some of which clearly haven't, and therefore are liable for a VRT penalty unless a false declaration is made, for which there is a €5000 fine if caught doing so.

Why do you want a thread asking legitimate questions locked ?

umop apisdn

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nope, just wondered how vehicles that entered the state in excess of 30 days, and are then sold on privately (again against the law as far as I know, unless someone can clarify otherwise) avoided the VRT penalties.

What's even more interesting is the panic this thread has caused and the demand the thread be shut down.

jcd5971

umop apisdn wrote: »

As you well know, as its already been explained to you several times, including by a mod, and which you for some reason best known to yourself, you still wish to ignore, no one is asking about vrting a vehicle presented for registration within 30 days of its entry into the state.

We're talking about vehicles advertised for sale by private sellers on done deal, some of which clearly haven't, and therefore are liable for a VRT penalty unless a false declaration is made, for which there is a €5000 fine if caught doing so.

Why do you want a thread asking legitimate questions locked ?

My God again
The example I gave you was of a Mercedes in the country for at least 3 months without vrt.
Again no problem clearing it.. None

hundreds of people are buying cars like this on done deal without issue

umop apisdn

jcd5971 wrote: »

My God again
The example I gave you was of a Mercedes in the country for at least 3 months without vrt.
Again no problem clearing it.. None

hundreds of people are buying cars like this on done deal without issue

So what import date did you put on the signed declaration, and if it was in excess of 30 days what additional VRT penalty did you pay, and if not, why did the counter not enforce the law, as they are required by law to do so ?

OldMrBrennan83

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umop apisdn

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm merely asking a question, you're not required to answer or even post, but you seem pretty desperate to ensure I don't ask them, and to defend the practice, why is that ?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

jcd5971

Patww79 wrote: »

It's the fact you're ignoring answers is the puzzling part, but ask away. You're not unearthing anything that people don't already know.

Are you expecting the mafia round now that you've made this earth shattering discovery?

Mate I'm dipping out of this thread you should do the same, this guy is either a very good troll or a paranoid crazy person either way I'm out

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

umop apisdn

jcd5971 wrote: »

Mate I'm dipping out of this thread you should do the same, this guy is either a very good troll or a paranoid crazy person either way I'm out

No just a person who asked a genuine question, not about anyone, and got some conflicting answers, so asked for more clarification, then suddenly several posters, for no apparent reason, seem to panic, get hostile, and ask for the thread to be shut down.

So is this poster not telling the truth is that it ?

bazz26 wrote: »

If you want to stay technical to the letter of the law then an Irish resident should not be buying a foreign registered car from a private individual here in the first place.

bazz26 wrote: »

Lets face it, they are not going to give you a genuine receipt as it leads a paper trail back to them.

umop apisdn wrote: »

So in other words they must be getting registered with forged receipts, is that what your're saying ?

bazz26 wrote: »

Yes.