Bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki

Right Turn Clyde

In their book American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin suggest that the bombing of Japan was actually a warning to Russia. They say that the US knew that Japan were on the verge of surrendering, and would do so as soon as Hirohito could negotiate a surrender that would allow him to appear honourable and dignified in front of his own people. However, the US wanted to take the opportunity to flex their muscles and show Russia who was boss.

It's a fascinating theory. I've just never heard of it from anywhere else. Has anyone else come across this and what do you think of it?

Aenaes

It's been speculated before.

I don't think there can be much doubt the bombings were used to ensure Japan's surrender rather than a scare tactic. There's a reason why the second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, three whole days after Hiroshima. Japanese high command surveyed the damage to Hiroshima and calculated no more than one or two more bombs could be made ready. They acknowledged that there would be more death and destruction but the war would go on.

The Japanese Navy used thousands of litres of fuel and oil to send the battlship Yamato out into the ocean so it could be sunk rather than captured while Japanese people were being starved because of the lack of fuel available for merchant ships.

galwaycyclist

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

In their book American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin suggest that the bombing of Japan was actually a warning to Russia. They say that the US knew that Japan were on the verge of surrendering, and would do so as soon as Hirohito could negotiate a surrender that would allow him to appear honourable and dignified in front of his own people. However, the US wanted to take the opportunity to flex their muscles and show Russia who was boss.

It's a fascinating theory. I've just never heard of it from anywhere else. Has anyone else come across this and what do you think of it?

There may be some merit in the argument that the bombs did not trigger the surrender. I recall reading that when the bombs dropped the Japanese military brought in their own scientists. These advised them that these were atom bombs and that in their opinion the Americans likely only managed to refine enough fissile material to make two or three of them. (Which was correct) At that point the fire raids on Tokyo had done equivalent or worse damage and the Japanese military made the calculation that they could fight on.

As I understand there were already changes underway at a political level that meant the balance of power between the "war faction" and the "peace faction" was shifting in favour of peace, and this was happening independently of any A bombs.

How much the Americans knew of this or cared I dont know. But it is possible they dropped the bombs for both reasons.

Jawgap

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

In their book American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin suggest that the bombing of Japan was actually a warning to Russia. They say that the US knew that Japan were on the verge of surrendering, and would do so as soon as Hirohito could negotiate a surrender that would allow him to appear honourable and dignified in front of his own people. However, the US wanted to take the opportunity to flex their muscles and show Russia who was boss.

It's a fascinating theory. I've just never heard of it from anywhere else. Has anyone else come across this and what do you think of it?

It's more than a theory. The minutes of the Targetting Committee and various other correspondence are available online and they show that demonstrating the power of the two different types of weapon and a willingness to use it to Stalin in particular was a significant factor in the decision to use the bomb.

It wasn't the decisive factor, but it was certainly influencing their thinking on the question of whether to deploy the weapons.

tac foley

My former boss, a four-ring admiral in the Japanese Naval Self Defense Force, was always of the opinion that his government of the day surrendered because the Soviets, no longer fighting in the west, could now turn their full attention to Japan in the east, and were persuaded by the combination of those two factors - the bombs and the Russians with their 3 million-strong military - to effect a surrender.

Mind you, he WAS biased, having also served as the Director of Training at the JNSFD College, and therefore more than familiar with the attendant contemporary documentation.

tac

Manic Moran

Jawgap wrote: »

It's more than a theory. The minutes of the Targetting Committee and various other correspondence are available online and they show that demonstrating the power of the two different types of weapon and a willingness to use it to Stalin in particular was a significant factor in the decision to use the bomb.

It wasn't the decisive factor, but it was certainly influencing their thinking on the question of whether to deploy the weapons.

I'm not so sure. The one-stop-shop for all the relevant documents seems to be here: http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb525-The-Atomic-Bomb-and-the-End-of-World-War-II/

Reading those, it seems to me that the propelling motivation was "knock Japan out of the war", and that if no other factors were relevant, that would be enough to proceed. The most important Soviet consideration appears to have been "knock Japan out of the war before the Societs get involved so that the Soviets won't have much of a claim on former Japanese-occupied territories like they had in Eastern Europe"

The use of the weapon as diplomatic leverage against USSR seems to have been mentioned pretty much in passing in Stimson's correspondence.

Count Down

Or were the Americans so fed up with the war that they wanted a 'Quick fix'?
An invasion of the Japanese islands would have been costly in terms of casualties, and would have been bad for morale, both for the military and at home.
Teaching the Nips a 'Darn good lesson' with the atom bomb would kill two birds with one stone - end the war and show the rest of the world what they were capable of if crossed.
The second bomb on Nagasaki was twofold - a test to ensure that the Hiroshima bomb wasn't a fluke, and also a "Make up your mind quick" message to the Japs.

beauf

Count Down wrote: »

Or were the Americans so fed up with the war that they wanted a 'Quick fix'?...

While that idea is certainly popular. I think its was for a number of reasons, including shortening the war, but also with a eye to the east and the soviets.

The bomb on it own hadn't enough of an effect, to achieve the end of the war. It had a less impact than the firebombing.