Career Change

SillyBeans

Hi all,

I've got a BSc that would allow me to teach Biology and JC Science. I'm thinking about doing a PGCE in the UK and then coming back here to do one of the HDip coversion courses to teach a second subject (potentially a third down the line as I might do the Open University maths modules also). Any suggestions as to good subjects to be looking at? I loved German at school and got an A1 for LC (Hons). Would that be a very strange combination with Biology (+/- maths)? Any better ones people could suggest?

If I were to work in the UK for a few years, would that experience be counted or would I still start on the bottom rung of the pay scale?

Thanks 

Edited as people are focusing on one aspect of this post which wasn't the main point of my question. Thank you anyway for your input regarding that.

seavill

If you are that sensitive to something a colleague or client as said I would suggest that secondary teaching is not for you, and I mean no disrespect in saying that.

Kids can be the most cruel of all they have no filter at all. As for parents well the thickest of thick skins needed to deal with them.

Secondary schools are a tough environment and certainly not for the easily offended.

Postgrad10

SillyBeans wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm considering a career change! I've got a BSc that would allow me to teach Biology and JC Science. I'm thinking about doing a PGCE in the UK and then coming back here to do one of the HDip coversion courses to teach a second subject (potentially a third down the line as I might do the Open University maths modules also). Any suggestions as to good subjects to be looking at? I loved German at school and got an A1 for LC (Hons). Would that be a very strange combination with Biology (+/- maths)? Any better ones people could suggest?

I know teaching jobs are few and far between here at the moment but I'd be happy to work in the UK for a couple of years to build up some experience first rather than applying as a new grad. My current job pays very well but I absolutely hate it. The environment is very harsh and I frequently come home crying my eyes out because of something a colleague or client had said or done (and I'm not a big softie!). Jobs (permanent or with some sort of stability) in my current field are probably more scarce than teaching jobs. The only upside is that I could do free lance work while I study and while I look for a teaching job so it's not the end of the world if it takes a while to get one.

If I were to work in the UK for a few years, would that experience be counted or would I still start on the bottom rung of the pay scale?

Sorry for the essay and thanks in advance for any words of wisdom, even if they are "don't do it!!"

I can tell you are realistic enough to know that teaching jobs are far and few between. However no job should leave you that upset every day so you should move on sooner rather than later. Start my getting your degree assessed by the teaching council and take it from there. At least you have the option to do freelance work to tide you over while you are retraining which is great. Have you had much experience working with young people to see if you'd like it?

SillyBeans

It's a different kind of cruel to be honest. It usually involves someone (generally a lot taller than I am, which isn't difficult!) Screaming in my face about something I've had no part in and being very intimidating and aggressive. It's not cruel in the "you're a rubbish teacher and I hate you and I hope you die" kind of sense

SillyBeans

I'm using the app and can't seem to quote posts. I've worked with a lot of young people and also been involved in training newer members of staff which I enjoy more than any other part of my job. Back in the day I was the only student doing both Ag Science and Bio and my Ag teacher was feeling lazy and made me teach a few bits to the rest of the class. I enjoyed that too even though I was painfully shy then. He earned his money so he didn't!

seavill

SillyBeans wrote: »

It's a different kind of cruel to be honest. It usually involves someone (generally a lot taller than I am, which isn't difficult!) Screaming in my face about something I've had no part in and being very intimidating and aggressive. It's not cruel in the "you're a rubbish teacher and I hate you and I hope you die" kind of sense

Depending on your school someone taller (which even the first years are taller than me) screaming at you,being aggressive assaulting etc. isn't an uncommon occurrence.
Just to be aware these things happen in a lot of schools on a weekly basis in some schools nearly daily. I'm not saying all schools are like that don't get me wrong but teachers nowadays are expected to take abuse from parents and kids with very little management back up. Calling you a name is small time. Even in nice schools a whole class can gang up on a weak teacher and make their life hell.

As I said I'm not trying to scare you off but don't think that the worst that can happen is your quote above.

spurious

There is always the classic 'I just have to say you touched me' threat.
Glad I got out of it when I did, but a bit sad as I loved the job for many years - the years before the lunatics started to run the asylum.

SillyBeans

Thanks for the input regarding the environment. I do understand that the quote I have is far from the extent of it. It was meant to be light hearted. I also do appreciate that schools can also be very hostile environments. However the issues I'm having with my current job (while not necessarily better or worse) are different. For me personally there is a huge difference between a confrontation between a teacher and student/parent in a school environment with people nearby and a disciplinary procedure in place (hopefully...gulp!) and a 50 year old man screaming and swearing in my face due to someone else's error while we are the only two people in the entire building and then my boss trying to force me to see him again next week in a one on one environment without in any way defending me or asking the man not to speak to me like that again (which happened this week - obviously I refused and was told off for it which is what upset me in that instance). I'm not saying my experience is worse, but it's very different. We've all been students at some stage and I know how horrible kids (and especially their parents) can be. With this job I do deal with children and their parents often and that's not an issue (apart from obviously being frustrating when they can't see their little angel is a little lunatic). I'm well able to handle myself when challenged or questioned (the majority of the time at least).

I've edited my OP as I posted this more to get an idea of subjects rather than whether or not I'm cut out for teaching. I'll obviously be getting more experience in the area before I commit to any further training (my thumbs are broken from texting that!!)

SillyBeans

Postgrad10 - you mentioned getting my degree assessed. I've had numerous email conversations with the TC regarding my degree and was told they would only formally assess my degree while in the first semester of the PME or (if I go to UK route) when I'm trying to get my UK qualification recognised. When I said I'd like a definitive answer regarding any short comings in the degree she said "if you fill the form in truthfully you will be able to assess this yourself" helpful. Do you know of a way that I could find out what modules, if any, I'd need to make up prior to committing to a course? As I'd like to get any additional modules out of the way while still working full time.

gaiscioch

SillyBeans wrote: »

It's a different kind of cruel to be honest. It usually involves someone (generally a lot taller than I am, which isn't difficult!) Screaming in my face about something I've had no part in and being very intimidating and aggressive. It's not cruel in the "you're a rubbish teacher and I hate you and I hope you die" kind of sense

This sounds brilliant - the "usually" part. Get your camera on your laptop/phone ready next time, press play. Have witnesses. Failing that, try and be in a location where cctv is authorised already and then demand access to the tapes. Consult a solicitor, or FLAC for free. Not for all the tea in China would I let this one pass. (at the very least chat with your union rep as there is often a long record attached to bullies.)

More pertinently, I assumed a post entitled "Career Change" would be about leaving teaching, which shows how frequently such a thing comes up. If you want to live in Dublin as a teacher be prepared for a lifetime of worry about the finances unless you have family money. Créche fees alone for a single chisler are over €1000 per month of your after tax income. Outside Dublin, you will have more real income because of the lower property prices first and foremost. Not good job prospects though, as you know.

Now, never mind these polyanna types in their early 20s who just love teaching/inspiring etc. You can't see much of that when you're paying €100 of your after tax income to have your child seen in A&E and you're smothering under private healthcare and all the other insurances we pay. With our PRD, USC and all the rest we are the "squeezed middle". Be hard-headed about the finances of choosing teaching. Many if not most teachers have a second or even a third job; we have 4.5 months in each year that we naturally are not paid for (although our salary for 7.5 months is paid out over the 12 months).

On the plus side, if you've a lot of things going on; if you're a writer or some other type of creative artist, teaching can be a fantastic job entirely because what the holidays can allow you to do and the dreams they can allow you to fulfil. Or... you could find yourself minding the kids as it's cheaper if you did that. The actual teaching side of things is not as vocational and inspirational these past few years as a lot of English-style bureaucracy has been imposed on Irish teachers. There are, of course, rewarding experiences every day and you can get a real kick from seeing particular kids grow in confidence as a result of your help, but this sort of thing is genuinely less important to the system than filling in various forms and spending hours at meetings.

Overall, I'd be inclined to think hard about all the options you have with your existing skillset and experience before engaging in a two-year teaching qualification that is also very expensive. The idea of teaching in England would also be a turn-off as it's the model for all the awful "reforms" that are currently being fostered upon us. Do in-depth research on alternative careers for somebody with your subjects, and even book an appointment with the Science careers expert in the careers' office of your alma mater.

janes1234

Interesting thread. Spurious what made you leave teaching if you don't mind n e asking? Op honestly I would not go into teaching. I know this sounds negative but it simpy is a career with so few prospects and there is a huge oversupply you may realistically never get proper work. On educationposts at the moment there are so many advertisements for part time hours which are very hard to live off. OP obviously you have the right to go into teaching if you choose. Im just saying after 2 years and alot of money you need to weigh up if it's worth it. I still honestly don't think ppl realise how the profession is changing.
Re your current job that sounds awful. I woul certainly try to focus on getting out/moving company. Life is too short.

spurious

janes1234 wrote: »

Interesting thread. Spurious what made you leave teaching if you don't mind n e asking?

As the Swedish philosophers Abba once said 'stop doing it if it's not fun anymore' and after nearly thirty years in the inner city, it really wasn't fun any more. The good had gone out of it, the fun in extra curriculars, extra trips, small enough class sizes so that everyone had a chance, being able to do little off-curriculum projects and activities, seeing kids succeed - all that was gone, replaced with form filling, time punching exercises, huge classes (whatever happened a guarantee that a child with learning disabilities would be in a small enough class to get individual attention?), more than one level in a class, god forsaken meetings at the end of what always seemed to be more and more difficult days and then to cap it all, we were to give up the few free classes we had to do Supervision and Substitution.

Now, I'm sure there are places where S&S is probably not too bad, the students will work away, but in an inner city vocational school it's hellish. All it does is create extra work for the poor eejit doing it and make those people who were genuinely ill feel bad for dumping on their colleagues.

It seemed to me as if someone somewhere (probably in an office and with a grudge against Mrs Bloggs who gave them a C on an Irish essay in 1975), suspected the teachers were all on the doss and decided to bring in the nonsense (sick leave changes, extra hours, pointless meetings) to catch us all out. The effect being the dossers ignored them and the poor twits who were doing extra stuff anyway (because they enjoyed it) felt used and abused and soon stopped doing anything extra.

There were other things too, witnessing the utterly inhumane restrictions the new sick leave rules (introduced to supposedly tackle the few dossers who like to take the odd day here and there) put on colleagues who had suffered and were suffering major illness, who had to struggle in during treatment for cancer, or miss very important doctor's appointments just so they did not lose any 'sick days' turned my stomach.

Seeing children who had been diagnosed as needing extra help suddenly being told they did not need it because the Department had moved the goalposts regarding qualifying for it. The casualisation of teaching; the stringing along of NQTs desperate for a couple of hours; the letting people go just before their CID entitlements, it was all part of it.

The general disrespect in schools, between students, students to staff, sometimes staff to staff - I didn't need it any more. The pay cuts too, though they were not at all the main thing. I couldn't go on a proper pension, so I just got them to give me what I had paid in and I went. I do little bits and pieces for the SEC to supplement the 15k pension - I miss some of the kids and I miss my colleagues, but I don't really miss the stress or the general working conditions.

tl, dr; It wasn't fun any more.

5ub

OP I think you might have gotten all of the advice you need but if I could just chime in and echo some of the above comments - teaching, especially secondary teaching, requires very thick skin in any school. I have thought in both private, fee-paying schools and DEIS schools and have had some pretty unpleasant experiences.

I don't mean to sound sexist, patronising or anything like that - but as a 6'2" male, Garda reserve, I can openly say that I have had some pretty nasty things said to me by students that really hit me hard. It isn't pleasant as you might imagine.

Teaching is a hard profession to get into in this day and age, and sometimes I wonder why I'm still here. Spurious hit the nail on the head in the last paragraph above. It is a tough job, but there are some up sides to it. You just have to decide for yourself whether or not it is worth the heartache.