Plumbers Bill

mercuryfrost

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice with regards to a bill received from a plumber for work not requested. If this isn't the right place to post, maybe you can point me in the right direction?



In short, I requested a quote from a plumber for installation of a new toilet, taps, and a shower at a home of some tenants. I was splitting the costs of the items and installation with the tenants. We decided I would pay for the items, and they would pay for installation, either from 'my' plumber, or one of their own choosing, depending on the price.

My plumber visited the premises, and said his quote would be around €600, but that it would depend on the positioning of the toilet. I told him cost was very important, and he suggested he would take photos of the various potential setups, alongside a quote for each. This was the last I heard from him... until...

Three months or so later, he sent me a bill for ~€2,000, including disposal of old items, buying additional taps, fixing some pipework in the hotpress, and installation of a garden tap alongside the original items I has requested a quote for.

I've pointed out I didn't give permission for any work to be done (and this was the first I'd heard of most of it), but offered to pay the original €600, or something around that, to reflect the work done. I asked who asked for the other items, but he hasn't answered. He has refused my offer, and now has sent a solicitors letter requesting the full amount.

Where do I stand on this? Do I need to lawyer up?

I'm happy to pay for the work I wanted done, and have offered, (and thought the tenant had gotten their plumber to do), but I don't want to be taken for a fool either.



Any advice appreciated,
and again, apologies if this is in the wrong place

slimjimmc

Cross posted in Consumer Issues
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057475597

antoinolachtnai

I had a similar situation.

Ring his solicitor. (the one who wrote the letter) Be as nice as you can. Tell him you want to resolve the situation and ask him if he had any form of order docket or purchase order, or indeed any documentation at all, because you didn't get one. He never produced anything other than the original invoice, kept sending nastygrams.

Solicitor will likely forget about your call and issue you another form letter in six months. Ring up again, talk to the solicitor again and lose it with him a bit. Tell him how unbelievable his client is. You were waiting for quotations and never got them, and now you are waiting for a copy of the purchase order or other documentation and never got it either but now you have got another of his nastygrams. By now, almost a year will have elapsed since the original incident.

Ask him again if he has any documentation in relation to his client's claim, because you haven't anything, not even the quote he promised months ago.

If the solicitor seems friendly and reasonable, you can say that you want to make a 'without prejudice' offer of 600 euros, today, to resolve the whole thing. Those words mean that the offer is not an admission of any liability. (You could also ask for an itemised account of the plumber's costs if you want to make it more long-winded.) If the solicitor is any good, he will accept your offer.

Most likely he will go away at some point though this can drag on. There is a limit of 6 or 7 years on when he can sue you. We had nonsense with our ways all the way up to the end. (We offered a settlement of about one-third of his total claim, which his solicitor dismissed outright.)

If he does issue proceedings, you then need to engage a solicitor. There are some 'tricks' to litigating this type of contract and it will be a lot easier if your solicitor knows the area. If you are still at it at that point, I could recommend someone.

a.

pippip

What's your tenants version of events with it all?

Sleeper12

You've left yourself in a very strange situation. First off the landlord is responsible for the upkeep of the premises. It'll say this in your lease. If you didn't give your tenants a lease. You could be in even more trouble. So the tenant shouldn't be asked to pay for any work or materials.

An awful lot now depends on EXACTLY what you said to the plumber. You may have indicated indirectly that the tenant may have some input into this job. The tenant may have become your agent in this matter.

Here is your difficulty. If this goes to court there's no judge in the world is going to believe that a plumber would do all this extra work without being asked by SOMEONE. Now because of this very strange landlord, tenant arrangement you have, you paying part and tenant paying part, you have blended rolls that should be totally separate. It doesn't matter really who ordered the extra work. It was ordered by you or your agent ( the new roll you gave the tenant). If a judgement is made it'll be made on the property the work was carried out on.

If you don't stay on the tenants good side he could testify against you in court. I've never in my life heard of a tenant paying for fixtures in a house that they hadn't damaged first. This is dead money for the tenant. He can't take the toilet that he paid for with him.

beauf

Sleeper12 wrote: »

... I've never in my life heard of a tenant paying for fixtures in a house that they hadn't damaged first. ...

+1 to all the other stuff you said.

But in my experience, and going by posts in this forum quite a surprising number of tenants, do pay for repairs and/or fixtures without consulting their lease or LL. Its something the LL should make crystal clear with a new tenant or agent, even if its the lease.

mercuryfrost

Hi all,

The bathroom equipment was all in order, they just wanted a newer shower and toilet and such, as they were very old. I'm happy to split costs of improvements a tenant wants (and in the better times, would have paid for them outright).

This work took place in Q3, 2011. The tenant has moved on since. The plumber and I have exchanged letters, with me requesting further info, such as who authorised the work and so on, but he wasn't answered the question.

The 'without prejudice' offer is a good tip, I like that idea. Thanks antoinolachtnai!

Do you feel I would be able to send that letter myself without getting a solicitor involved?

antoinolachtnai

I wouldn't send any letters. I would ring the solicitor, quote the reference number on the letter and talk. Make notes as you go.

DGOBS

The question I have, is why would the plumber undertake all this work if someone didn't authorise him to do so?

Did the tenant ask for it?

If someone asked him to do it, and as mentioned above, you gave the tenant input into it, then it's far to say the plumber only did as he was asked.

Is the bill a fair price for the work that has been performed?
Do you believe (if he was asked to undertake the work) is it fair that he is the one to loose out here?

Boruma

Send a registered letter to the solicitor looking for the itemised bill. Also send them a copy of your itemised order for 600e. Ask them where did u agree to the rest. Tell the solicitor you are happy to go to court

newacc2015

I think if this nearly going on 4 years. He will be buying fortune in legal fees and will continue to do so in the future. Personally most trades men I know in this situation would take a few cents in the Euro debt. A solicitor isnt worthwhile for a matter like this. Are you sure it was a debt collection, solicitors letter. You can order them online and for like €30-60, the letter threatens legal action.

Personally I would offer him €600 and call it quits. This has been going on for 4 years. Him prepping for court will be a couple hundred more. If you refuse to pay, he has to get the sheriff involved. Generally the sheriff isnt the most client friendly etc.

Offer him €400 and be willing to go to €600.

The plumber shouldnt have asked the tenant. He isnt the client. My parents are landlords and all dealings with tradesmen go though us. There is no contract between the tenant and plumber,its with the landlord. eg if you go the car dealership, ask for a blue car and pay for it. Would you be happy if you friend, not paying for it, collects a red one,as they wanted that one instead?

Make clear there was never a contract between tenant and plumber. Tell him he can go to court and rack up legal fees. But you suggest he cuts a deal now