Men's Sheds

iptba

Article in Irish Independent today:

101 things to do in a man's shed

The Men's Shed Movement is catching on in Ireland, and is making a real difference

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/101-things-to-do-in-a-mans-shed-31435164.html

These can be useful places for men to discuss things and so help with loneliness, depression, etc. Also, they don't cost money unlike drinking in pubs which can also cause some other problems for people on occasion (health, alcohol dependency, etc.). No reason why people can't frequent pubs and men's sheds of course.


[There has been at least one thread on this topic but the last post was last November and I was told before not to bring up old threads]

etoughguy

Thats a really good idea

Alf Veedersane

I think they're brilliant. Passed through one once, by chance, and it just seemed like a really good vibe.

Now, I guess it resonated more because they had a lathe and all sorts of quality woodworking tools that my Dad would love but everyone there just seemed in good form and at ease.

lazybones32

The boys at the local Shed made the most useless bird tables I've ever seen. They put roofs on them but built the houses so big that crows and magpies would have no problem getting in under them - they could nearly fly through if they wished.

Anyway, I don't understand the current obsession with nearly forcing men to discuss loneliness and depression and other mental health issues. The resources are there and have been for a long time but the thing is for them to want to actually use them instead of suffering needlessly without reaching out. You can lead a horse to water and all that...
I think men need a sense of usefulness and purpose more than talking about their feelings. I know many men who are depressed - my dad included - and they do nothing about it. I'm not going to prod anyone into talking about what's happening in their head/life and I understand the therapeutic value and pleasure of making something or learning a new trade/skill. In my own life, I've learned most from those who spoke the least. The Sheds appeal to the need of men to 'do' something; to occupy themselves.

Pawwed Rig

You must be in a different country to me. While the resources may be there to some extent in Ireland they can be difficult and expensive to access. Also information about the types of services available can be sketchy at best.

irishmover

lazybones32 wrote: »

The boys at the local Shed made the most useless bird tables I've ever seen. They put roofs on them but built the houses so big that crows and magpies would have no problem getting in under them - they could nearly fly through if they wished.

Anyway, I don't understand the current obsession with nearly forcing men to discuss loneliness and depression and other mental health issues. The resources are there and have been for a long time but the thing is for them to want to actually use them instead of suffering needlessly without reaching out. You can lead a horse to water and all that...
I think men need a sense of usefulness and purpose more than talking about their feelings. I know many men who are depressed - my dad included - and they do nothing about it. I'm not going to prod anyone into talking about what's happening in their head/life and I understand the therapeutic value and pleasure of making something or learning a new trade/skill. In my own life, I've learned most from those who spoke the least. The Sheds appeal to the need of men to 'do' something; to occupy themselves.

I think you'll find that a Men's Shed provides exactly that.

What do you think a Men's shed is? Some run down town hall where a bunch of old men sit around in a circle discussing their feelings like some AA meeting?

A men's shed got my dad through almost 5 years of unemployment. It gave him exactly what you mentioned, a sense of purpose. He learnt some fantastic things too. He's now back working again and used some examples of the things he learnt as a result of the Men's shed community.

Photography, lathe turning, mathematics, computer skills (my dad could barely turn a computer on but now he's got a windows phone messages me on telegram, Skype's, use's MS word) and he's also passed on his skills to other men for their hobbies..

The Men's shed is a great organisation. You should try convincing your dad to give it a shot.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Definitely agree. They should be seen as good social outlets for men of all ages and circumstances. Be good for men of different generations to learn from each other i.e. I could teach people IT skills while others teach me some craft work.

Now I need to find my local shed!

ruskin

Men's Sheds? Don't they mean men's public toilets?

hardCopy

lazybones32 wrote: »

The boys at the local Shed made the most useless bird tables I've ever seen. They put roofs on them but built the houses so big that crows and magpies would have no problem getting in under them - they could nearly fly through if they wished.

Anyway, I don't understand the current obsession with nearly forcing men to discuss loneliness and depression and other mental health issues. The resources are there and have been for a long time but the thing is for them to want to actually use them instead of suffering needlessly without reaching out. You can lead a horse to water and all that...
I think men need a sense of usefulness and purpose more than talking about their feelings. I know many men who are depressed - my dad included - and they do nothing about it. I'm not going to prod anyone into talking about what's happening in their head/life and I understand the therapeutic value and pleasure of making something or learning a new trade/skill. In my own life, I've learned most from those who spoke the least. The Sheds appeal to the need of men to 'do' something; to occupy themselves.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You must be in a different country to me. While the resources may be there to some extent in Ireland they can be difficult and expensive to access. Also information about the types of services available can be sketchy at best.

The resources are certainly not there in this country. There are people being turned away from psychiatric units all the time and massive waiting lists for counsellors.

Groups like men's sheds seem like a great way to provide some informal support networks for people before their problems become acute or while they're waiting to see a professional.

Kevhog1988

is there an age thing to this? saw a local mens shed built a rowing boat, completely from scratch. It was brilliant!!! they are mostly middle aged or retired guys

endacl

theemigrant wrote: »

is there an age thing to this? saw a local mens shed built a rowing boat, completely from scratch. It was brilliant!!! they are mostly middle aged or retired guys

Nope. Open to all.

lazybones32

hardCopy wrote: »

The resources are certainly not there in this country. There are people being turned away from psychiatric units all the time and massive waiting lists for counsellors.

Groups like men's sheds seem like a great way to provide some informal support networks for people before their problems become acute or while they're waiting to see a professional.

I don't know if people are being turned away from psychiatric units but if they are, Men's Sheds aren't the next best option.

'The Samaritans' exist for those who feel alone or need someone to listen to them; 'Aware' exists to provide support for those suffering from depression, anxiety and other such conditions; GP's are usually the first port of call as their expertise and list of connections is invaluable. Those are 3 longstanding resources within nearly every community in Ireland and only the doctor charges. I'm sure if I were to dig further I'd find more, oh wait! Pieta House came to mind; AA; Bereavement groups. Resources do exist for the major crisis factors in life.

Men's sheds - as I've already said - exist to cater to men's need to 'do' something, rather than talk about (doing) something.

Pawwed Rig

You are talking about crisis situations. I don't think anyone is suggesting that someone who is suicidal pop down to their local shed for assistance.

None of the organisations you mention are a solution for mental health issues either. A GP is not an expert to deal with mental health problems and is more of a conduit for accessing other (more expensive) services which can be hit and miss quality wise.
Aware can be good but their resources are stretched and they do not always respond when someone reaches out. Even with that they are more of a support network in a more formal environment that does not suit many people.
The Samaritans are not there to be called on a regular basis either.

MrSquishSquash

I went looking for that rowing boat, fair deuce to them. They put on currach building courses where you built it from scratch for e200 (or help someone and pay nothing) or you could order one from them for a e1000 which goes towards the mens shed!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Skibbereen-Mens-Shed/1379521135644253

I think its a great idea.

Tazium

I like the concept of men's sheds, non-judgemental away from work and an environment that's open. Walked into work last Tuesday morning and they've established a man's shed under the stairs with strings of Christmas lights around it and signs advertising 'sessions'. Completely ruins it in my opinion.

syklops

MrSquishSquash wrote: »

I went looking for that rowing boat, fair deuce to them. They put on currach building courses where you built it from scratch for e200 (or help someone and pay nothing) or you could order one from them for a e1000 which goes towards the mens shed!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Skibbereen-Mens-Shed/1379521135644253

I think its a great idea.

Feckin Skibbereen. Skib gets the best of everything.


/me shakes fist
/me looks away wistfully
/me remembers buying the Yellow Submarine by the Beatles in a music shop in Skib about 15 years ago
/me strokes beard, wistfully.



Seriously though, it sounds like a Mens Shed is like a Hackerspace, but for older men. Women created the womens institute decades ago. Men went to the pub(or AA), now there is something for those who dont want to get drunk.

Annasopra

theemigrant wrote: »

is there an age thing to this? saw a local mens shed built a rowing boat, completely from scratch. It was brilliant!!! they are mostly middle aged or retired guys

No not at all

lazybones32

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You are talking about crisis situations. I don't think anyone is suggesting that someone who is suicidal pop down to their local shed for assistance.

None of the organisations you mention are a solution for mental health issues either. A GP is not an expert to deal with mental health problems and is more of a conduit for accessing other (more expensive) services which can be hit and miss quality wise.
Aware can be good but their resources are stretched and they do not always respond when someone reaches out. Even with that they are more of a support network in a more formal environment that does not suit many people.
The Samaritans are not there to be called on a regular basis either.

I assume you are responding to my text, but it'd be more mannerly to actually address the person you are replying to.

I don't know if the resources I listed are sufficient but they are resources and they have been in existence for years. They can be a solution because not every mental-health issue is one that requires hospitalisation. As one user already pointed out, using these services might actually prevent someone having to avail of psychiatric assistance later on.
If you consider these charities and services to be sub-standard, then do something besides pi*sing all over them*...maybe volunteer, donate or tell them how to do their job correctly - you seem to know what these services weaknesses are so why not strengthen them?

Men's Sheds are not primarily a mental health resource though they have an ulterior motive: they seek to impress and encourage better health practices among men using the medium of work.

Finally, The Samaritans are there to be called as many times as a person wants - they offer a listening ear 24-7. If someone wants to ring regularly, they can. If it helps the caller, mission accomplished.


* maybe you're not so much grieved with the services as with the one who says the services already exist? Either way, they already exist.

Annasopra

No

I think the other posters are absolutely correct. Mens Sheds are a good way of promoting positive health as opposed to reacting to crises in mental health.

They do in this in the following ways

1 Giving unemployed men a sense of purpose to their day
2 Promoting mens confidence
3 Teaching men new skills in a supportive environment.
4 Encouraging friendship and collegiality and learning from each other.

Having been unemployed for 6 years I can certainly see the huge benefit of mens sheds to promote mens confidence, self esteem, positive mental health.

I don't think the resources out there for mental health are great at all to be honest. Try being unemployed and access counselling. The HSE offers pretty much nothing. You will get some counsellors give you a subsidy but it can still cost 30 euro a week - a huge amount when you only receive 188.

lazybones32

lol! You're basically agreeing with me but at the same time disagreeing with me.

Pawwed Rig

lazybones32 wrote: »

I don't know if the resources I listed are sufficient but they are resources and they have been in existence for years.

yet your post indicates that they are sufficient and there is no need for extra resources.

lazybones32 wrote: »

They can be a soluion because not every mental-health issue is one that requires hospitalisation. As one user already pointed out, using these services might actually prevent someone having to avail of psychiatric assistance later on.

Yes they can be a solution for some people. Noone is doubting that. But so can Men's Sheds. The ones you listed are not solutions for huge amounts of people though which is one reason why our mental health and suicide rates are so high in Ireland.

lazybones32 wrote: »

If you consider these charities and services to be sub-standard, then do something besides pi*sing all over them*...maybe volunteer, donate or tell them how to do their job correctly - you seem to know what these services weaknesses are so why not strengthen them

I am not sure how you know what I do and don't do in my spare time??

lazybones32 wrote: »

* maybe you're not so much grieved with the services as with the one who says the services already exist? Either way, they already exist.

Not sure what you mean here. None of my posts have attacked you in any way (unlike yours) . I vaguely recognise your user name but have no idea of who you are or what your opinions are about anything other than as someone who does not agree with Men's Shed??

Fukuyama

Am I the only one who finds the "Men Sheds" patronising?

I'm not saying they're bad concepts but even the label just makes me go "nope". It smacks of this "allowing men to be men" bollocks that cropping up all over with regards to mental health.

Men shouldn't need a little 'man cave' where they can be handed a grubby set of tools and allowed to go play.

I'm in my 20s and going by the pictures on their website its doesn't look like I'm their target demographic. However, I quite like fixing things, electronics, DIY etc... their set-up just seems off in the same way local "youth clubs" never appealed to me. Organized fun... blegh.

syklops

Fukuyama wrote: »

Am I the only one who finds the "Men Sheds" patronising?

I'm not saying they're bad concepts but even the label just makes me go "nope". It smacks of this "allowing men to be men" bollocks that cropping up all over with regards to mental health.

Men shouldn't need a little 'man cave' where they can be handed a grubby set of tools and allowed to go play.

I'm in my 20s and going by the pictures on their website its doesn't look like I'm their target demographic. However, I quite like fixing things, electronics, DIY etc... their set-up just seems off in the same way local "youth clubs" never appealed to me. Organized fun... blegh.

You need to check out your local hackerspace.

Although I kind of agree on the organised fun element.

Sleepy

Does anyone know if there's one of these in the North Dublin area focused on car restoration? It's a dream of mine to spend my retirement restoring an old campervan or, if the budget never stretches to that, a small two seater convertible. I've next to no practical experience however so it'd be great to be able to lend spanner time / dumb labour to someone happy to pass on their skills.

Fukuyama

syklops wrote: »

You need to check out your local hackerspace.

Although I kind of agree on the organised fun element.

Looks interesting.

To be honest it might be me that's the problem when it comes to these kind of things.

I never gelled well with clubs. I'm not anti-social or a wet blanket or anything.

When I work on a project I prefer to put my head down in marathon sessions - 12 hours at a time for example - and just tinker away. Normally with a beer or two on the go. If I can't get something working I'm more likely to post on a forum or Reddit to get help.

Then again I'd love to restore a car or a boat with a few like-minded people.

biko

I think it's a great idea, particularly for men with hobbies that their friends don't share.

Find a shed near you http://menssheds.ie/find-a-shed-3/

syklops

Fukuyama wrote: »

Looks interesting.

To be honest it might be that's the problem when it comes to these kind of things.

I never gelled well with clubs. I'm not anti-social or a wet blanket or anything.

When I work on a project I prefer to put my head down in marathon sessions - 12 hours at a time for example - and just tinker away. Normally with a beer or two on the go. If I can't get something working I'm more likely to post on a forum or Reddit to get help.

Then again I'd love to restore a car or a boat with a few like-minded people.

I could have written the same thing myself.

lazybones32

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

yet your post indicates that they are sufficient and there is no need for extra resources.

:rolleyes:

No, the post was about not turning the Shed (where men do something) into a place where men go to talk about their feelings "These can be useful places for men to discuss things and so help with loneliness, depression, etc." - the OP. The resources exist for men who want to talk but the Shed is primarily about fulfilling a man's need to do something.

Pawwed Rig

Can it not be both??

lazybones32

Fukuyama wrote: »

Am I the only one who finds the "Men Sheds" patronising?

I'm not saying they're bad concepts but even the label just makes me go "nope". It smacks of this "allowing men to be men" bollocks that cropping up all over with regards to mental health.

Men shouldn't need a little 'man cave' where they can be handed a grubby set of tools and allowed to go play.

I'm in my 20s and going by the pictures on their website its doesn't look like I'm their target demographic. However, I quite like fixing things, electronics, DIY etc... their set-up just seems off in the same way local "youth clubs" never appealed to me. Organized fun... blegh.

The generation who are using it aren't the type that need 'permission' to be men. I'd bet money that the website was written by a woman though - the explanation of what the Shed is about is about 4 paragraphs and then a summary of the 4 para's.:pac: A man could say it in two lines; three if he is a talker.

I think you'd find a lot of retired men at it - who need to get out of the house - and still want something constructive to do...or even to be in company. I reckon that you'd be welcome if you're willing to work and learn. I'd happily go if the local shed's hours extended beyond 5pm. I want to learn more about plumbing.

lazybones32

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Can it not be both??

Down tools for the 'sharing circle'?

Not everyone needs to 'share'. Most men need to do something and have a bit of craic while doing it. If the need to talk about personal issues is greater than the need to do something, then the Shed isn't the resource most suited to that person's need. Samaritans, GP, counselor etc is more apt.

Pawwed Rig

It doesn't have to be a sharing circle. Where you do a project with someone is it beyong the realms of possibility that you may become friendly with them? A social circle for someone who is isolated can do wonders for their mental health. Even the act of interacting with others outside of your comfort zone would be applauded by mental health professionals as would having a goal and completing projects such as the boat that a previous poster highlighted. I am not sure how any of that can be viewed as a bad thing

brightspark

Fukuyama wrote: »

Am I the only one who finds the "Men Sheds" patronising?

I'm not saying they're bad concepts but even the label just makes me go "nope". It smacks of this "allowing men to be men" bollocks that cropping up all over with regards to mental health.

Men shouldn't need a little 'man cave' where they can be handed a grubby set of tools and allowed to go play.

I'm in my 20s and going by the pictures on their website its doesn't look like I'm their target demographic. However, I quite like fixing things, electronics, DIY etc... their set-up just seems off in the same way local "youth clubs" never appealed to me. Organized fun... blegh.

It's important to remember that each shed is different, the activities done are those chosen by the members of that shed.

Also while you may not need the company etc. that comes from being involved in a shed, have you considered what you might contribute?

Fukuyama

lazybones32 wrote: »

The generation who are using it aren't the type that need 'permission' to be men.

Fair point.

lazybones32 wrote: »

Down tools for the 'sharing circle'?

Not everyone needs to 'share'. Most men need to do something and have a bit of craic while doing it. If the need to talk about personal issues is greater than the need to do something, then the Shed isn't the resource most suited to that person's need. Samaritans, GP, counselor etc is more apt.

I wish this line of thinking was adopted more.

There was a conversation in an office I worked in a year or so ago. Mostly women. Some statistic or another was in the news about male suicide and they were having an aul moan about men refusing to talk.

I can't imagine anything more excruciating than a circle of Irish men talking about their "feelings".

I don't think I've ever done it before outside of the odd vent to a girlfriend. Hobbies like fishing are much better.

Kevhog1988

Fukuyama wrote: »

Fair point.



I wish this line of thinking was adopted more.

There was a conversation in an office I worked in a year or so ago. Mostly women. Some statistic or another was in the news about male suicide and they were having an aul moan about men refusing to talk.

I can't imagine anything more excruciating than a circle of Irish men talking about their "feelings".

I don't think I've ever done it before outside of the odd vent to a girlfriend. Hobbies like fishing are much better.

I definitely like a bit of alone time. Chopping timber is one of my favourites

brightspark

I was at one of the founding meetings for a shed near me, there was a guy there who lived alone, a few miles outside of town, though he didn't say it outright I suspect he was there purely for some company.

Not everyone wants to be alone.


From some of the comments I've seen by others about Sheds I think people forget it's not always about what you get from being involved but what you give!

silverharp

interesting piece on men's sheds in Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJRnZ6KBNEo

the_syco

silverharp wrote: »

interesting piece on men's sheds in Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJRnZ6KBNEo

Nice piece, and I very much agree with what was said at https://youtu.be/uJRnZ6KBNEo?t=219

LostinBlanch

Yeah, but I agree with the narrator, the chairman of men's sheds is selling men's culture short. Of course men are part of society, as are women, but there isn't any outcry calling for an end to womens only societies, gyms etc. So why is there a call for ending this men only space?

I wonder if there isn't an element of control freakery about this.

Wibbs

Fukuyama wrote: »

I wish this line of thinking was adopted more.

There was a conversation in an office I worked in a year or so ago. Mostly women. Some statistic or another was in the news about male suicide and they were having an aul moan about men refusing to talk.

I can't imagine anything more excruciating than a circle of Irish men talking about their "feelings".

Same for me TBH. However an avenue for the men who may want that is only a good thing IMHO.

The part I get itchy hair about is this popular, nay given notion that all men should share feelings. In essence the way Women™ do. That the caring sharing feminine is the only game in town. That if men acted more like Women™ (a certain particular type of same) then they'd be better humans. Well what with toxic masculinity and all that utter rot... Many men don't want to, it would make them uncomfortable, maybe even worse and are quite happy not to do so, ditto for quite a few women too while we're at it).

It's like that watered down yellow pack Buddhist (very) Lite "mindfulness" that was all the rage. For about six months. Some wanted to make it part of school curriculums. IIRC some actually succeeded in that. Upon further research it was found that while it could be beneficial for women on average, it was either neutral or even detrimental for men on average. "The finding, the authors said, should call more attention to considering gender as a potential factor in assessing mindfulness efficacy". Stop the presses! There may be gender differences in mental health!!



Given that any first year student of psychology knows that men and women tend to present differently with regard to mental illnesses, how long did it take for that penny to drop? It's the damned hippies. Hippies I tells ya!

LostinBlanch wrote:

Of course men are part of society, as are women, but there isn't any outcry calling for an end to womens only societies, gyms etc. So why is there a call for ending this men only space?

I wonder if there isn't an element of control freakery about this.

Well yeah LiB. For a minority of women and "feminists" the thought of men being in a group without female "supervision" is an anathema. Really winds them up no end. They reckon we're plotting, or worse having fun. Now there are some good old stylee Feminist historical reasons why some have an issue, but for the most part these days it's just "feminist" curmudgeons, busybodies and harpies needing extra whine with their whine.

lazeedaisy

silverharp wrote: »

interesting piece on men's sheds in Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJRnZ6KBNEo

There's a female shed !!! Not far from where I live, I'm sure when the ICA hear, there will be hell to pay!

They still run the wrath around here

Wibbs

the_syco wrote: »

Nice piece, and I very much agree with what was said at https://youtu.be/uJRnZ6KBNEo?t=219

Up to a point. I would agree when she said "women change the conversation between men", but I would argue not always for the better. Depends on the demographic of the men. Among young men that are hornier than a Viking helmet factory* a woman of their own age is a catalyst and not always a good one. An older woman might engage the Ma Factor™ which could go either way. And so forth.

In the end if Women™ want women only spaces for themselves and more power to them, let them at it, but frankly it bugs the feck outa me that Men™ are always being cajoled into feeling somehow guilty for having their own men only spaces.









*feck off I know vikings didn't have horned helmets.

LostinBlanch

Wibbs wrote: »

Well yeah LiB. For a minority of women and "feminists" the thought of men being in a group without female "supervision" is an anathema. Really winds them up no end. They reckon we're plotting, or worse having fun. Now there are some good old stylee Feminist historical reasons why some have an issue, but for the most part these days it's just "feminist" curmudgeons, busybodies and harpies needing extra whine with their whine.

Yes, I’ve experienced this in work years ago. My boss was a woman, she was grand to work for but I noticed one thing. Whenever I’d meet another fella in the office I couldn’t pass the time of day without her coming over and putting a stop to it. I’m talking about 30 seconds or so “how’s it going, did you see the match last night” kind if stuff. This isn’t something that happened often, but just enough for it to become apparent. And it’s not like I was spending all my time chatting and not working, quite the opposite. It hasn’t happened since I left that job.

iptba

Some mentions of Men's Sheds in this article from the Irish Examiner

JOYCE FEGAN: Time to let the loneliness out of the sheds...

Saturday, September 22, 2018 - 12:00 AM

Joyce Fegan asks how is it we have managed to engineer the most connected society of all time while also creating an epidemic of loneliness?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/joyce-fegan-time-to-let-the-loneliness-out-of-the-sheds-870664.html