Hot town, summer in the city.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I was walking to work this morning here in the financial district of Frankfurt. It’s a beautiful day, and there was a real vibe around the place. It’s that relaxed, calm, yet confident air that makes it such a wonderful city to live in. Strolling past the Palmengarten and seeing some of the thought leaders and visionaries of European Finance relaxing with a paper and a cup of really decent coffee. It’s inspiring.

I have to contrast this with my recent visits to Dublin. There have been a few visits there in the last few months, for both personal and professional reasons.

Dublin is a lot shabbier and more ran down than my adopted city. It’s not a bad place, but there really appears to be a lack of civic pride. It’s a dirty place, and a bit of a parochial backwater.

Much like the legendary Dublin wit, our capital’s reputation for being a vibrant, dynamic city is mostly a myth. I don’t know if it’s the excessive use of granite, but the whole city seems to lurk in the shadow of itself. The only building that could be considered high-rise is a decrepit mess from the 70’s where bitter men with beards head in to sit around talking about Marx and the tyranny of the employer.

Unfortunately I’ll be spending quite a bit of time in Dublin over the next few months with work commitments. Does anyone else find Dublin rather dirty, shabby and down-at-hell? Or am I being overly critical? Frankfurt is a tough city to be compared against. Perhaps Dublin would be better compared with somewhere like Liverpool or Marseille? Tough old port towns.

Your Superior

Maybe when Dublin has developments as impressive as the Albert Dock and Liverpool One it could be compared to Liverpool.

Tombi!

AH mod: moved ot the Dublin City forum; please read their charter: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056816998

Lux23

Sorry, next time you visit we will make sure to give the place a proper clean.

Mr_Muffin

The weather does it no favors. Constantly overcast with 2 weeks of sun (if we're lucky) in the summer isn't very pleasing.

Red Kev

Dublin has improved enormously since you left Aonus.

Red Kev

You also neglected to tell us about the drug addicts openly injecting themselves and sex slave prostitutes less than 100 metres away from the financial district of Frankfurt.

I lived there for a while and I've never seen such human misery in any other European city. Of course if it wasn't for your colleagues in the finance industry the sex trade there would be essentially non-existent.

NoCrackHaving

Coffee wise Dublin more than holds its own against most European cities these days, in fact it's coffee scene is a lot better than Frankfurt's by a country mile. Generally, sterile banking/business/diplomatic cities like Frankfurt/Brussels/Geneva generally have pretty poor coffee/food/bars unless you're into cocaine and prostitutes like a sizable proportion of financial workers are.

testaccount123

Frankfurt city centre is what, 70 years old? Perhaps what we need is some kind of mass fascist political movement to kill a few tens of millions of people and tangle the whole continent up in war and to have our city centre completely obliterated and rebuilt with American money. That way we can have nice shiny cities like our German masters.

On the other hand, maybe not.

Sham Squire

This says so much more about your perspective than it does about Frankfurt or Dublin. Thought leaders? Visionaries of Finance? That would make my skin crawl and my stomach sick. I'd recommend you check out some of Eamon Mac Thomais wonderful historic dublin documentaries on YouTube or try actually engaging with the people of Dublin when you're here next. It's a magical place and there's nowhere like it in the world. You need to explore it more or get shown around by someone who can show it to you. Hope you can discover it's unique charm at some point, your life will be the better for it.

Lux23

I wouldn't mind if you were comparing Dublin to Rome or Paris or even London, but Frankfurt? Really?

percy212

Dublin vs Paris? There is no comparison. Dublin vs Glasgow would be more reasonable.

Birneybau

Why a mod moved a notable troll's thread to the Dublin City forum...

Adamocovic

I wouldn't normally thread these waters here in the Dublin City threads but seeing Aongus as the poster I had to click it. Once again an eye opening post. Don't you ever change!

Lux23

I just looked at some of his other posts. What a guy!

FloatingVoter

A superior form of troll - only Acqua di Cristallo Tributo a Modigliani flows beneath his britches. I'll stick with Liffey water and a bag of Taytos while I confuse the junkies and ignore the architecture.

ISOP

I think O'Connell street is dreadful myself, full of fast food joints, alcoholics and drug addicts, it doesn't reflect well

Polar101

ISOP wrote: »

I think O'Connell street is dreadful myself, full of fast food joints, alcoholics and drug addicts, it doesn't reflect well

Quite similar to the area around the central station in Frankfurt, in fact.

Vic_08

Birneybau wrote: »

Why a mod moved a notable troll's thread to the Dublin City forum...

That's Dublin City's problem in a nutshell, cute hoors coming in, dumping their rubbish and scuttling back to where they came from.

aaabbbb

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I was walking to work this morning here in the financial district of Frankfurt. It’s a beautiful day, and there was a real vibe around the place. It’s that relaxed, calm, yet confident air that makes it such a wonderful city to live in. Strolling past the Palmengarten and seeing some of the thought leaders and visionaries of European Finance relaxing with a paper and a cup of really decent coffee. It’s inspiring.

I have to contrast this with my recent visits to Dublin. There have been a few visits there in the last few months, for both personal and professional reasons.

Dublin is a lot shabbier and more ran down than my adopted city. It’s not a bad place, but there really appears to be a lack of civic pride. It’s a dirty place, and a bit of a parochial backwater.

Much like the legendary Dublin wit, our capital’s reputation for being a vibrant, dynamic city is mostly a myth. I don’t know if it’s the excessive use of granite, but the whole city seems to lurk in the shadow of itself. The only building that could be considered high-rise is a decrepit mess from the 70’s where bitter men with beards head in to sit around talking about Marx and the tyranny of the employer.

Unfortunately I’ll be spending quite a bit of time in Dublin over the next few months with work commitments. Does anyone else find Dublin rather dirty, shabby and down-at-hell? Or am I being overly critical? Frankfurt is a tough city to be compared against. Perhaps Dublin would be better compared with somewhere like Liverpool or Marseille? Tough old port towns.

Area around Frankfurt's main train station is like a scene from the walking dead so that's not true

Confucius say

Frankfurt ffs. Even Munich is soulless, especially at night, and even Germans think Frankfurt is boring. Dublin is absolutely rife with homeless and junkies, epidemic almost, it's not the prettiest city bar parts of the central southside, but it's got character and fun loving people and lots of life in it. Nice troll Aonus.

Bass Cadet

Frankfurt is a boring sh!thole

I just moved to Dublin after spending six years in San Francisco. Apart from the bin collection and refuse issue, I think Dublin City has come on leaps and bounds since I last visited (7 years ago). General cleanliness, park facilities, playgrounds, cycle routes, etc

Why would anyone want 'high rises' in their city?? In SF high rises were confined to the socially dead downtown and anywhere else was not allowed to build over four floors in height.

Originally from Galway and I believe the corporation have denied high rise planning in the past and continue to do so. There are alternatives. How high rise buildings in a city is somehow a aesthetic advantage for any city is beyond me.

NoCrackHaving

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Frankfurt is a boring sh!thole

I just moved to Dublin after spending six years in San Francisco. Apart from the bin collection and refuse issue, I think Dublin City has come on leaps and bounds since I last visited (7 years ago). General cleanliness, park facilities, playgrounds, cycle routes, etc

Why would anyone want 'high rises' in their city?? In SF high rises were confined to the socially dead downtown and anywhere else was not allowed to build over four floors in height.

Originally from Galway and I believe the corporation have denied high rise planning in the past and continue to do so. There are alternatives. How high rise buildings in a city is somehow a aesthetic advantage for any city is beyond me.

To prevent low density urban sprawl which is prevalent throughout much of western Europe and North America (in particular). Low density populations mean public transport can't function anywhere near as effectively, cycling becomes unsustainable due to the distance involved, basically low density development belongs in the 1950's. San Francisco...wow a city where accomodation is at such a premium that people commute for 2. hours each way from its hinterland because of the lack of space, where sharing bedrooms with strangers is the norm in rental property? Unless you're mega rich and living on a mansion in Pacific Heights or in the Marina, San Francisco and the Bay Area is an atrociously bad model of urban planning.

What are your alternatives to high density development to prevent urban sprawl because I've yet to see any?

Aesthetics are nothing to do with it, it's to do with proximity of populations to work, reducing pressure on developing green belt land, reducing commuting times, lowering carbon emissions etc. While we're n the point though to deny that the skyscrapers of New York, Chicago, Tokyo and Hong Kong aren't truly architecturally fantastic buildings is just ridiculous.

Bass Cadet

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

To prevent low density urban sprawl which is prevalent throughout much of western Europe and North America (in particular). Low density populations mean public transport can't function anywhere near as effectively, cycling becomes unsustainable due to the distance involved, basically low density development belongs in the 1950's. San Francisco...wow a city where accomodation is at such a premium that people commute for 2. hours each way from its hinterland because of the lack of space, where sharing bedrooms with strangers is the norm in rental property? Unless you're mega rich and living on a mansion in Pacific Heights or in the Marina, San Francisco and the Bay Area is an atrociously bad model of urban planning.

What are your alternatives to high density development to prevent urban sprawl because I've yet to see any?

Aesthetics are nothing to do with it, it's to do with proximity of populations to work, reducing pressure on developing green belt land, reducing commuting times, lowering carbon emissions etc. While we're n the point though to deny that the skyscrapers of New York, Chicago, Tokyo and Hong Kong aren't truly architecturally fantastic buildings is just ridiculous.

Relax...and thanks for the town planning lecture. I never said it wasn't a necessity, however the OP seemed to think that high rise buildings are actually somewhat of a good thing to have in a city (as if it somehow 'defines' it)...a necessity yes...but there are alternatives, as in building more within the high rise/downtown area, rather than shooting up ugly apartment blocks in suburban areas.

Don't lecture me on San Francisco...I know all about the rental issues (paying €1600/month for a studio apartment of 550 sq ft in the city for two years...thanks to Google buses to Palo Alto and the like.

We're talking about Dublin here, for the record. A lot of terrible buildings and architecture was built in the 70's. Architecture? Some people think Las Vegas has 'great architecture'. I never mentioned architecture apart from aesthetics - in a Dublin context (which I presumed was inferred).

For the record I'd like to reiterate, Frankfurt is a boring sh!thole

percy212

1600 sounds good to me for SF. Dublin is a kip. SF is being ruined by tech children. Its disgusting to see.

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Don't lecture me on San Francisco...I know all about the rental issues (paying €1600/month for a studio apartment of 550 sq ft in the city for two years...

Bass Cadet

percy212 wrote: »

1600 sounds good to me for SF. Dublin is a kip. SF is being ruined by tech children. Its disgusting to see.

yep...private buses to Palo Alto (45 min south). The tech heads only want to live in San Francisco though. Stanford/silicon Valley - not enough 4am parties. Rental being pushed up as a result and Latino families being evicted from the Mission district...hence the (more serious than usual) riots after the World Series win.

You'd find it hard to meet an actual San Franciscan within city limits.
All being pushed out to the east bay. Parts of Berkeley are nice (if you're over 50) and parts of Oakland (Lake Merritt area, Oakland Hills). Apart from that SF is the other place to be.
Nevermind the underlying social issues of homelessness poverty and crack/heroin in city districts...The Tenderloin is a no go area in the downtown and they really couldn't care less about cleaning it up but hey it's a great tourist destination!

That said...love San Francisco, just a shame about the tech boom pushing born and raised San Franciscans and the working class out of the city.

Dublin was much more of a kip before I left...maybe I'm just too green yet but I've seen a Hell of a lot worse in SF, NYC and London...relatively speaking

Kermit.de.frog

aaabbbb wrote: »

Area around Frankfurt's main train station is like a scene from the walking dead so that's not true

So what? This rubbish is brought up ALL the time by the defenders of the realm. "This part of Paris is this..." blah blah blah.

There is NO excuse for the proliferation of drug abuse in Dublin City Center. It is bad planning and bad policing that has it the way it is.

This city is taking serious reputational damage and locals seem blind to this.

Don't compare to parts of other cities - do something about it.

Mesrine65

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So what? This rubbish is brought up ALL the time by the defenders of the realm. "This part of Paris is this..." blah blah blah.

There is NO excuse for the proliferation of drug abuse in Dublin City Center. It is bad planning and bad policing that has it the way it is.

This city is taking serious reputational damage and locals seem blind to this.

Don't compare to parts of other cities - do something about it.

What are you doing about your favourite subject to bitch about Kermit?

Kermit.de.frog

Mesrine65 wrote: »

What are you doing about your favourite subject to bitch about Kermit?

Trying to drill in to people's heads just how unacceptable the state of our city center is. Only the docklands is looked after properly. The rest of the city is basically disregarded, run down and increasingly dangerous. This is what happens when the authorities sit back and allow the city center to decay.

I'm not going to put on a cape and go out kicking the crap out of junkies and feral rats. But I am going to keep bringing this up in different ways at different levels and hopefully some day (when enough people accept we deserve better) they might actually give a damn about our capital city.

testaccount123

Mesrine65 wrote: »

What are you doing about your favourite subject to bitch about Kermit?

He's moaning on the internet

Mesrine65

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Trying to drill in to people's heads just how unacceptable the state of our city center is. Only the docklands is looked after properly. The rest of the city is basically disregarded, run down and increasingly dangerous. This is what happens when the authorities sit back and allow the city center to decay.

I'm not going to put on a cape and go out kicking the crap out of junkies and feral rats. But I am going to keep bringing this up in different ways at different levels and hopefully some day (when enough people accept we deserve better) they might actually give a damn about our capital city.

How about running as an independent in the next elections & sharing your opinions on a national forum if you feel so passionate about your cause?

Kermit.de.frog

Mesrine65 wrote: »

How about running as an independent in the next elections & sharing your opinions on a national forum if you feel so passionate about your cause?

What stuns me is that Dubliners don't feel so passionately about their own city. It's like they have an acceptance that this how it should be. Instead of coming up with suggestions to stop the rot they keep having a go at posters like me with genuine concerns for the city center. They seem to be in denial or they just don't care. Either way it's equally bad.

John_Rambo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

do something about it.

Plenty of people here working in inner city youth groups, rejuvenation projects etc... devoting time, effort and money in Dublin.

I seriously doubt you could tear yourself away from the keyboard to do something like that. Or would you?

Are you going to put your money and time where your (big) mouth is?

Kermit.de.frog

John_Rambo wrote: »

I seriously doubt you could tear yourself away from the keyboard to do something like that.

Lovely attitude. Don't be making assumptions about people you don't know. Easy on the internet, harder in real life.

Mesrine65

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What stuns me is that Dubliners don't feel so passionately about their own city. It's like they have an acceptance that this how it should be. Instead of coming up with suggestions to stop the rot they keep having a go at posters like me with genuine concerns for the city center. They seem to be in denial or they just don't care. Either way it's equally bad.

Not having a go Kermit, I would like a simple answer to a simple question is all.

Pissing & moaning on an internet forum, when you are so passionate about a subject, achieves feck all, it just makes you sound like a whinge without substance constantly having a pop at Dublin.

If you have genuine concerns, standing up for what you believe in by taking it to the next level speaks volumes.

A case of put up or shut up, if you will...

John_Rambo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Lovely attitude. Don't me making assumptions about people you don't know. Easy on the internet, harder in real life.

Well, are you going to do something about it? Or are you just taking the easy road? If you're interested PM me. I was heavily involved in an inner city youth project. I helped set it up and I'm still in touch with the present organisers.

Kermit.de.frog

John_Rambo wrote: »

Well, are you going to do something about it? Or are you just taking the easy road? If you're interested PM me. I was heavily involved in an inner city youth project. I helped set it up and I'm still in touch with the present organisers.

I never said anything about the youth projects or clubs and certainly never had a bad word to say about that at all. I fully acknowledge the great work they/you do in very difficult circumstances and they need more support. That is proactive prevention.

That is not the issue - drug abuse and lack of visible policing in the city center is what I am am concerned about. The gardaí are reactive instead of proactive. It's a basic law and order issue. Where are the gardaí?

I have asked before - is there a work to rule or something?

My other beef is the planning system that decided to destroy inner city communites like your own because some idiot decided it would be a good idea to bring all of Leinster's drug addicts within half a km of O'Connell St every week by locating multiple meth clinics in the area. That is just vandalism. I can not understand who in their right mind thought that would ever be a good idea?

Mesrine65

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I never said anything about the youth projects or clubs and certainly never had a bad word to say about that at all. I fully acknowledge the great work they/you do in very difficult circumstances and they need more support. That is proactive prevention.

That is not the issue - drug abuse and lack of visible policing in the city center is what I am am concerned about. The gardaí are reactive instead of proactive. It's a basic law and order issue. Where are the gardaí?

I have asked before - is there a work to rule or something?

My other beef is the planning system that decided to destroy inner city communites like your own because some idiot decided it would be a good idea to bring all of Leinster's drug addicts within half a km of O'Connell St every week by locating multiple meth clinics in the area. That is just vandalism. I can not understand who in their right mind thought that would ever be a good idea?

Well you certainly have the question avoidance skills of a politician Kermit, still waiting re., post #31?!

Kermit.de.frog

Mesrine65 wrote: »

How about running as an independent in the next elections & sharing your opinions on a national forum if you feel so passionate about your cause?

So everyone who has a concern about the city center should run as a politician?


I have a better idea. How about people start caring about their own city and stop making a sh!t of it? How about that? God forbid the city council actually do their job properly or the gardaí are actually visible on the streets.

Sure who are we to demand such standards?

And that is the problem with Dublin - and certain posters here - low standards. They think it is acceptable because they don't care.

Standman

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Strolling past the Palmengarten and seeing some of the thought leaders and visionaries of European Finance relaxing with a paper and a cup of really decent coffee...

What a blissful utopia you live in.

testaccount123

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And that is the problem with Dublin - and certain posters here - low standards. They think it is acceptable because they don't care.

So what are YOU doing about it then?

Kermit.de.frog

testaccount123 wrote: »

So what are YOU doing about it then?

What I am doing is totally irrelevant. What are YOU doing? I treat the place with respect. That is what I do. I don't see many other people doing that which is hardly surprising because a lot of people I think have just given up.

They see the place is not looked after properly and the authorities don't show much interest so why should they?

We need to grow a sense of civic pride but more importantly and urgently we need to deal with open drug abuse in the city center. It could be dealt with so quickly if the will was there.

Closing most of the clinics near the GPO and moving them to a nondescript preferably abandoned location on the outskirts and an increased garda presence would make a big difference.

testaccount123

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What I am doing is totally irrelevant. What are YOU doing?

Im a member of my local neighbourhood watch scheme and I help out with IT at my local youth centre.

I treat the place with respect.

You have zero respect for Dublin, all you do is tell lies on the internet about it.

You are a clown of the highest order, wildly exaggerating Dublins issues and contributing absolutely nothing to the city. Just stfu.

tricky D

And we are done.