Up to date Views on Beef Genomic Scheme??

Western Pomise

So lads and Lassies,
What is yere current thinking on the Beef Genomic Scheme?
We (farmers it effects) have had a while to think on it.Stats on all cows coming out in next ten days,some people have them already.
Personally it wouldn't make or break me (part time farming...around 15 suckers running with good quality PB Char bull)
Bull is quiet,easy calving and producing quality calves but isn't off a well known bull so stars for his offspring won't be great.
The way I see it the scheme is a bit of a 'sop' to the current trend of breeding out of some kind of dairy replacement.Like looking at quality BEEF stock on farm so tbh would never dream of introducing spindly legged narrow Freisian or British Holstein genes into the herd!!!;)

So what do others make of it???....I'm veering towards opting out.

Grueller

Western Pomise wrote: »

So lads and Lassies,
What is yere current thinking on the Beef Genomic Scheme?
We (farmers it effects) have had a while to think on it.Stats on all cows coming out in next ten days,some people have them already.
Personally it wouldn't make or break me (part time farming...around 15 suckers running with good quality PB Char bull)
Bull is quiet,easy calving and producing quality calves but isn't off a well known bull so stars for his offspring won't be great.
The way I see it the scheme is a bit of a 'sop' to the current trend of breeding out of some kind of dairy replacement.Like looking at quality BEEF stock on farm so tbh would never dream of introducing spindly legged narrow Freisian or British Holstein genes into the herd!!!;)

So what do others make of it???....I'm veering towards opting out.

We stand to get €5-6000 of a payment from this. We will not be moving away from sucklers within six years and have enough 4* + cows to work out of so I feel we have no option but to stay in. When I say we I mean myself and the father who I am in a partnership with.

We have limousin and parthenaise cows breeding export quality weanlings that have five stars. We also have black limousin cows that are only two stars. I honestly believe that the stars will drastically change with genomic testing. Whatever comes down the line we need to get used to being adaptable for any money from Europe.

Bullocks

Opting out , I'd rather breed what I like besides being told what few bulls will suit and maybe change again .
Did anyone go through it with their planner and find out the exact costs of complying and what they will actually pocket out of the €100 /cow yet ?

bogman_bass

money for old rope. cant afford to leave it behind me

kay 9

Comes to about 60 a cow after the red tape is covered or so I'm told. There's also supposed to be a course coming in for lads to be compliant next year. 1 day and the farmer is paid 160 to do said course.

We didn't bother with it this year. Going to wait and see how it pans out first. The old man is getting fed up of the never ending paperwork anyway...

Bellview

I'm still on the opt out side of the fence. the latest bull proofs proves that icbf stars are still too volatile that we could follow the stars and finish up with a mess in the field at the end of 6 years.

I was reviewing the ped AA's calving difficuly and spotted Bosullow elmark is now over 12%.. unfortunately when we will look over the fence at Tullamore next weekend you will see Elmarks winning classes. all these bull calves would have to be sold with a calving jack & vets number on speed dial

charolais0153

I think looking at it its easy money i have enough four and five star replacements for 2020.the ratings are too volatile and unpredictable .but i think if she has a hard calving she should drop a few €s on the maternal index .the key imo is too use all the indexs especially the reliability

wiggy123

hard to know with it... rough look at my stock--cows! re icbf(my own searching)could reveal my herd need replacing to satisfy 4/5 star females within ones herd... but from breeding angus's the last 15 years-and selling bulls, I've never had a problem re them-repeat customers and good reviews.....

kay 9

Bellview wrote: »

I'm still on the opt out side of the fence. the latest bull proofs proves that icbf stars are still too volatile that we could follow the stars and finish up with a mess in the field at the end of 6 years.

I was reviewing the ped AA's calving difficuly and spotted Bosullow elmark is now over 12%.. unfortunately when we will look over the fence at Tullamore next weekend you will see Elmarks winning classes. all these bull calves would have to be sold with a calving jack & vets number on speed dial

Never heard of an Aa that hard calving. I'm beginning to think this beef genomic scheme is going to duck up stock even more. 12% is up there with Belgian blues. It's automatic in most farmers that AA=easy calving. I hope some old timers don't start getting caught with this

Bellview

kay 9 wrote: »

Never heard of an Aa that hard calving. I'm beginning to think this beef genomic scheme is going to duck up stock even more. 12% is up there with Belgian blues. It's automatic in most farmers that AA=easy calving. I hope some old timers don't start getting caught with this

from the proofs on ICBF this week... Dunbar & Eamon are sons of Bosullow. the numbers below are calving diff%.

if you head to Tullamore you will see a few sons of Bosullow there and there is a daughter of Dunbar winning up the west... Eamon is a GeneIreland owned bull ... not sure if he was released into the maternal program

Bolsullow elmark 12.5% diff
Dunbar 9.6%
El Paso 7.9%
Goulding Eamon 7.2%

Mad4simmental

What % would ye consider bad? I know it depends on the cow. If we all use easy %2 calving bulls well be left with a herd of narrow arse cows not able to calve a pup.

patsy_mccabe

Mad4simmental wrote: »

What % would ye consider bad? I know it depends on the cow. If we all use easy %2 calving bulls well be left with a herd of narrow arse cows not able to calve a pup.

As a rule for me, anything over 10% is hard calved and anything under 5% is easy calving, regardless of the breed.

Bellview

Mad4simmental wrote: »

What % would ye consider bad? I know it depends on the cow. If we all use easy %2 calving bulls well be left with a herd of narrow arse cows not able to calve a pup.

I'm not sure that statement is 100% accurate, but what you may have are cows that are not as large as Limo's etc. TLZ would be an example of bull where daughters will be ok at the pins but they will not be as large as the potential cow killers above

as a breed angus should be easy. there are 2 very different markets for the angus bull. Dairy... calving needs to be 2% or less as a lot of smaller dairy cows/heifers ... this is the biggest market for the AA bull & if guys are not focused on this market they are brave. By using the older 'traditional' lines will meet this market as the bull will help hit the O grade as fleshier type calf.. Bohey jaspers, carton roe bloodlines

the other are the 5%+ calver which are better for beef/british freisen. The challenge will be if the ICBF wants to drive all the ped breeders down the road of Bosullow elmarks then the real customer of the angus bull is being missed.

this is the call that the ped breeder will need to make... gamble on losing their customers to collect approx. 60 a cow.. only call that each breeder can make themselves