Violet Gibson

Ash.J.Williams

So Violet Gibson said God instructed her to shoot Mussolini and the saints guided her bullets to his face...and the Pope at the time while offering his best wishes to the mass murderer said God guided the bullets away from his face to save him, thus ensuring the deaths of up to 1 million people...which of them was correct?

Manach

or choice B, for damn if you don/don't, is to get the context from that era. As a good actually secondary material there is Michael Burleigh's Moral Combat which give a background to the era and the grey ambiguities in operation.

georgieporgy

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

So Violet Gibson said God instructed her to shoot Mussolini and the saints guided her bullets to his face...and the Pope at the time while offering his best wishes to the mass murderer said God guided the bullets away from his face to save him, thus ensuring the deaths of up to 1 million people...which of them was correct?

Poor Violet was a crazy woman (insane) so I think we can safely say that God probably didn't tell her to kill Mussolini or anybody else.
In 1926 I don't think anyone knew what Mussolini would do in the future. And we all know that God doesn't go around killing off bad politicians before their term is up.

The Pope wins this one, as did the many other heads of state at the time who congratulated the leader on his close shave.

newmug

Ya see, here's the thing - God actually said NOT to kill people. Yup. He was fairly explicit about it, so much so that he put it in his list of top ten rules. It goes something like "Thou shalt not kill".

So when you hear of people saying "God told me to kill so-and-so", surprise surprise, it wasnt God!

Ash.J.Williams

georgieporgy wrote: »

Poor Violet was a crazy woman (insane) so I think we can safely say that God probably didn't tell her to kill Mussolini or anybody else.
In 1926 I don't think anyone knew what Mussolini would do in the future. And we all know that God doesn't go around killing off bad politicians before their term is up.

The Pope wins this one, as did the many other heads of state at the time who congratulated the leader on his close shave.

Violet wasn't crazy at all. In fact her "deliriousness" that kept her incarcerated in the uk was because they didn't believe she shot Mussolini. As for not knowing what mussolini was capable of? Her assassination attempt was triggered after the death of her friend, who was kidnapped by the fascist regime raped (male) tortured and stabbed.

newmug

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Violet wasn't crazy at all. In fact her "deliriousness" that kept her incarcerated in the uk was because they didn't believe she shot Mussolini. As for not knowing what mussolini was capable of? Her assassination attempt was triggered after the death of her friend, who was kidnapped by the fascist regime raped (male) tortured and stabbed.

Whats your point?

Ash.J.Williams

it was a reply

newmug

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

it was a reply

Without a point.

Ash.J.Williams

newmug wrote: »

Without a point.

poster says woman mad - i said woman not mad - that was the point of that particular post.

newmug

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

poster says woman mad - i said woman not mad - that was the point of that particular post.

Thank you very much. You could have just said that in post 7.

Anyway, you're still wrong. She was a paranoid schizophrenic.

God never told anyone to kill anyone else.

Ash.J.Williams

newmug wrote: »

Thank you very much. You could have just said that in post 7.

Anyway, you're still wrong. She was a paranoid schizophrenic.

God never told anyone to kill anyone else.

No offense but i said it in the first sentence! Her illness was played up as it suited Italy and the UK to paint her as a mental case.

georgieporgy

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

No offense but i said it in the first sentence! Her illness was played up as it suited Italy and the UK to paint her as a mental case.

Are you saying that she was in perfect mental health and God told her to kill Mussolini?

eviltwin

The irony of people who believe in a god calling another believer mad.

silverharp

House M.D summed it up well "If you talk to God, you're religious. If God talks to you, you're psychotic."

Ash.J.Williams

georgieporgy wrote: »

Are you saying that she was in perfect mental health and God told her to kill Mussolini?

i'm absolutely not saying god spoke to anybody....it was violet that said that. I'm saying her mental health was exaggerated to fit an agenda. From a catholic point of view i just found it odd that the pope weighed in with the fascist. To me it seems obvious she deserved a little compassion.

homer911

I think this thread should be put of its misery!

lazybones32

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Violet wasn't crazy at all. In fact her "deliriousness" that kept her incarcerated in the uk was because they didn't believe she shot Mussolini. As for not knowing what mussolini was capable of? Her assassination attempt was triggered after the death of her friend, who was kidnapped by the fascist regime raped (male) tortured and stabbed.

Violet was hospitalised in 1925 after she shot herself in the chest.

No, Violet wasn't crazy at all...pointing loaded guns at your chest and pulling the trigger is healthy behaviour.

Ash.J.Williams

lazybones32 wrote: »

Violet was hospitalised in 1925 after she shot herself in the chest.

No, Violet wasn't crazy at all...pointing loaded guns at your chest and pulling the trigger is healthy behaviour.

suicide is a common as cancer in places, surely also deserving compassion. It also makes it easier to dismiss a political motive.

lazybones32

eviltwin wrote: »

The irony of people who believe in a god calling another believer mad.

The irony of someone calling people "mad" and yet engaging the "mad" ones in discussion at nearly every opportunity.... Madness is our reason, what's yours?

lazybones32

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

suicide is a common as cancer in places, surely also deserving compassion. It also makes it easier to dismiss a political motive.

Institutions exist specifically for people whose mental health issues present a danger to themselves and others.

Whether it was political or religious inspiration that motivated her, doesn't matter now. We are too far from the incident to change anything.

newmug

lazybones32 wrote: »

Institutions exist specifically for people whose mental health issues present a danger to themselves and others.

Whether it was political or religious inspiration that motivated her, doesn't matter now. We are too far from the incident to change anything.

Will you stop being such a killjoy!!!! Nevermind the facts, these posters are having too much fun doing their Catholic Bashing.

eviltwin

lazybones32 wrote: »

The irony of someone calling people "mad" and yet engaging the "mad" ones in discussion at nearly every opportunity.... Madness is our reason, what's yours?

I don't think your mad nor am I engaging in discussion with you. Just pointing out the obvious.

lazybones32

newmug wrote: »

Will you stop being such a killjoy!!!! Nevermind the facts, these posters are having too much fun doing their Catholic Bashing.

On rainy days like today, it's hard to not be a killjoy...idle hands, etc;

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't think your mad nor am I engaging in discussion with you. Just pointing out the obvious.

And I was just pointing out the obvious too.

Michael OBrien

newmug wrote: »

Ya see, here's the thing - God actually said NOT to kill people. Yup. He was fairly explicit about it, so much so that he put it in his list of top ten rules. It goes something like "Thou shalt not kill".

So when you hear of people saying "God told me to kill so-and-so", surprise surprise, it wasnt God!

There is lots of times when God in the bible tells people to kill other people so its not exactly fair to say "it wasn't God". Not to mention the reports of God killing people directly, or setting up wagers that allowed people to die (like in Lot and Jephthah's daughter).

It is fine to disagree with the claim, but you cannot claim it is not in God'scharacter to require people to die.