Purchased property with pre-existing tenant on RAS scheme - I want to renovate

Making My Way

I have a property that I recently purchased. The apartment had a tenant in place under the RAS scheme at the time of purchase. All is fine with that but I would like to exit the scheme and let the Apartment privately as I can do a little work on the place and achieve a better rent, it will also give me better control over future tenant selection etc.

My question is what notice to I need to give these tenants as they have been in the apartment since Sept 2008.

I know its 112 Days notice, but with the reason given above is that sufficient or do I need to wait till the end of the "Further Part 4 tenancy" term (ie Sept 2016) to be allowed give notice to these tenants.

OR

If I wait till the end of the "Further Part 4" tenancy period (ie. Sept 2016) can i at that time end the tenancy without reason?

The_Conductor

If you're doing significant renovations (as you are) you simply have to detail that you are doing significant renovations and the 112 days apply. However....... check the RAS scheme conditions- it could very well be the case that there are terms and conditions associated with the scheme- which confer rights which are additional to those under the 2004 RTA to the tenants. You must ensure you have a copy of the RAS agreement under which the accommodation is let.

This purchase of a property with a sitting tenant- is fraught with difficulties- which is why vacant possession is normally a condition of sale.

newacc2015

AFAIK a tenant on RAS is not a typical tenant and are pretty difficult to evict. Im not trying to be condensing, but did it never occur to you to ask your solicitor, when you were getting them to handle the sale about evicting the tenant?There is a fair amount of houses on myhome, that are quite cheap as they have sitting tenants, that one wants to deal with.

The previous owner might have signed into a long term contract with the council. Something you should have asked about. Honestly you need to call a solicitor or the council about this.

ABajaninCork

If it's RAS, then then tenant's there for the duration of the lease AFAIK. How long is the lease and how long left to run?

And if there's repairs to be done, then it's down to the council to deal with - isn't it? Not too sure about that TBH...

MileyReilly

The tenants are not your tenants, they're the councils tenants. You need to give notice to the council that you're taking your house off the scheme and the council will rehome their tenants. Not sure how long all that takes tho

antoinolachtnai

You need legal advice. The council's view will be that they have a housing agreement in relation to the property. Even if you serve notice on the tenant and do up the property they will continue have the right to nominate tenants for a set period.

Whether this agreement is water-tightly binding on you is the question only your solicitor can answer.

MarkAnthony

How did you get the purchase across the line without having this info? Close the cover before you strike solicitor?

The_Conductor

Talk to solicitor this morning- and get a copy of the RAS agreement.
Go through it in detail.
See exactly what your obligations are.
Go over it with your solicitor and see is there any wriggle room- any manner of getting out of the agreement.
Typically a property subject to a tenancy agreement- sells at a set discount to open market price- depending on the nature of the tenancy (some of the old controlled rents recently went at a 95% discount for example).

Anyhow- first step first- get a copy of the agreement- and go through it step by step- and see what your options are.

Making My Way

Wow thanks for all the replies,(My first time posting on this forum)

Well.. I purchases this property at what I would consider a fair deal with these tenants in place, knowing that it may be something I will need to deal with if i want to refurb the property and let privately. So I went into this with the following information....
RAS contract says I can exit the long term agreement (20 Years) with 12 months notice.
I do however need to work within the restraints & rules of the 2004 RTA when dealing with the tenants.
The RAS agreement is 6 1/2 years in with 13&1/2 remaining.

I wanted to see how a request for a rent review would go with the council first, and see how the rent could increase with the current tenants and in addition see what these tenants are like to deal with but more importantly how respectful they are with what is now my property. From that point I can then consider if a rent review brought things closer to current market prices or if not then its time to give the council notice (12 Months) and do some light refurb work and let privately.
Currently talking to the council and was told that there is a fair amount of "Holding Over" at the moment as they find it difficult to relocate tenants at present.
So questions are ...
1. Can I ask the tenants to vacate with 112 days notice without needing an explanation at the end of the "Further Part 4 tenancy" September 2016 (ie at the end of their 8th year)

2.or can I issue notice to council now leaving the any point prior to Sept 2016.

2. What happens in this "Holding Over" scenario the Council talk about ?
A) Do i still get paid my rent?
How long can this holding over carry on for?

Michael D Not Higgins

The RAS deal with the council would supersede the Part 4 notice period as it confers rights above that of the Act. Since the RAS scheme guarantees the rent even without tenants I'd say the rent will still be paid to you in an overholding situation. How long it takes I don't know, but if they have a year to rehouse them I'd expect them to do it within that period.

Mrs OBumble

Making My Way wrote: »

2. What happens in this "Holding Over" scenario the Council talk about ?
A) Do i still get paid my rent?
How long can this holding over carry on for?

The tenants don't actually move out, because they literally have nowhere to go.

They tell you that they are looking for somewhere, the council tells you it is looking for somewhere for them - and both are probably telling the truth. If you try to forcibly remove them, you are almost certainly breaking some laws - and you will probably be pictured in the local media as an absolute a**.

At a guess, because you have cancelled your RAS contract, the rent guarantee from the council will stop. Maybe they will keep paying while the tenant is still there, maybe they won't.

It will carry on until the council finds somewhere else for the tenant. In the current market, that could be a long time.





I hope you paid a nice price for the property, and are happy to be a RAS landlord for a long time.

Wabbit Ears

Tbh I think you bought the absolute worst property for your intended plan.

I'd either put it back on the market and hope to break even/minimise loss and go again or adjust your plans to just see out the 20 year lease as well as an assumed over holding of circa 5 years.

Not saying they will over hold, plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Gatling

[quote="Wabbit Ears;96496761" just see out the 20 year lease as well as an assumed over holding of circa 5 years.

Not saying they will over hold, plan for the worst, hope for the best.[/quote]

Where did you get the 5 year over hold figure

MarkAnthony

Expect an eviction to take in the order of about a year, probably with no rent coming in and with very little recourse if the tenants have no assets. I'm not overly sure of costs but probably in the region of 5/6K once court orders are sought, and evictions are completed. Obviously this is worst case they may simply move.

While it's your property, it's their home. You seem to be new to this, no issue there many of us are. You need to be very careful how you proceed. If you go in and make a big deal over the dog scratching the paint work, and make it obvious you want them out you may bend up with no rent, significant damage and legal costs.

I'd go softly softly. I still find it almost unbelieveable this was not all covered by your solicitor prior to the sale. In any event speak to the council about how to exit the RAS scheme, speak to a solicitor ref the lease, it's more complicated than a standard Part IV lease.

EDIT: Sorry just reread your post more carefully - you realise you'll need to wait 12 months before you can do anything or are you suggesting doing some work while the tenants remain for the 12 months? Once the 12 months is up then you'll be looking at giving them the 112 days notice assuming the work that you're doing rises to the required standard. Usually lets under the RAS scheme are pretty well looked after to keep them up to spec. You won't be able to do a bit of painting and let it out privately, the outbound tenants could easily sue.