Do you feel a void?

Dick phelan

First time poster to the forum, basically over the past two years or so i have slowly lost faith in god, i had given up on religion long ago and have never really followed it. However i still did have a faith in god, I wouldn't have classed myself as Christian or anything but just that i did feel there was some higher power or a god ect. Now however i have lost all faith in a god or higher power and would now say i am an Atheist. Many would be happy to reach this realization but i am not, i feel empty at times and during difficult times a big part of me wishes i had some sort of faith too lean on for comfort but i just don't see how there is or can be a god. My question is do any of you feel a void without faith or any advice on how to overcome that feeling?

Not a NSA agent

No void here but I was never an active follower or believer so not much was changed for me.

Finding what it is you miss and finding a solution would be the best thing to do. Do you miss meeting others every week? Are you now wondering what is the point in life if you'll just be dead at the end with no heaven to go to?

Fleawuss

No. Honestly never. In fact I felt free. I felt I could actually look at reality as reality. I set about making my life have the meaning I chose. If you read any of my SSM posts you'll know that's a work in progress! But I became an adult the day I abandoned religion.

eviltwin

Giving up on religion added to my life, it didn't take anything away. Its possible you might just need a bit of time to readjust. I find it helps to fill your life with a proper support network, real tangible things you can turn to if you need them. Its much better to have a living person you can depend on rather than an invisible being.

Dick phelan

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

No void here but I was never an active follower or believer so not much was changed for me.

Finding what it is you miss and finding a solution would be the best thing to do. Do you miss meeting others every week? Are you now wondering what is the point in life if you'll just be dead at the end with no heaven to go to?

No i'm not unhappy with regards meeting people ect i have very good family and friends, it's the latter i find myself wondering what's the point to life if it doesn't have a higher meaning. I should add i'm not suffering depression or anything i'm not thinking there's no point to anything anymore or something like that just feel a void of sorts.

Nervous Wreck

No void for me either. People look to God for comfort in times of need; I look to my friends and family. It may take some getting used to but I feel better for it; more comforted, and in a real, tangible way.

I think what you're feeling is pretty normal though. It sounds like you're mourning the loss of your faith and that's okay. You'll come out of it all the stronger, I reckon.

endacl

Not at all. No god shaped hole. No Santa shaped hole either.

iguana

endacl wrote: »

Not at all. No god shaped hole. No Santa shaped hole either.

The Santa comparison is apt. When I stopped believing in Santa, I was really pleased with myself. I felt really grown up and in some ways I preferred Christmas as I got to be on the side of things that my parents were on as my two younger brothers still believed. Whereas my best friend, the youngest in her family, was gutted and wished that Santa really was real even though she fully accepted that he wasn't. When Santa eventually stopped coming to our house, I understood her perspective as, ime, Christmas is less exciting without him.

I don't feel a void without some sort of God but I did feel a little bit of a pang about accepting that there is nothing 'magical' out there. I clung to religion a bit longer than I like. Once I realised that Christianity was obviously bonkers when I was in my teens I looked around for a different religion, a more right one. I convinced myself that there was a 'great maker' for a while and all the different religions were made up of small parts of the truth (big Babylon 5 fan right here), then I developed it into a sort of pantheistic conscious nature idea in my later teens which eventually led me to neopaganism in my early 20s. By my mid-20s I was what you could call a lapsed pagan when it suddenly occurred to me walking back from the bank one day that it really was all as make believe as Santa. Of course there is no great magic consciousness, it's just a comforting fairytale. You really are helpless sometimes, there is no prayer or magic spell or jedi force that can help you no matter how much you want and need it. You and everyone you love will eventually die and be gone forever. It can be hard to take and it's not a freeing realisation if your religious beliefs weren't restrictive ones but it is enlightenment and that is quite wonderful all by itself.

Mr. CooL ICE

Nope. I felt liberated. I spent the majority of my youth with my head wrecked that I had to answer to a judgmental higher being. When it 'clicked', it was like a weight off my shoulders

SpaceTime

Nope, definitely not.
I was never religious to start with.

I just find myself extremely annoyed by the way there's a complete blindspot to the unfairness of having public schools almost exclusively in church hands, and made worse by discriminatory enrolment policies.

That and other minor annoyances like swearing on bibles, religious oaths for public office etc.

I do feel a bit like I'm being deliberately excluded from certain state things, but I just see that more as a bit like the way the state treated gay people until a few months ago.

It's just backwardness and will eventually changed, if enough lobbying is done.

Ireland was incredibly weird until the mid 1990s, so it's really not surprising.

branie2

If I were an atheist, I would be at the start

equivariant

Dick phelan wrote: »

No i'm not unhappy with regards meeting people ect i have very good family and friends, it's the latter i find myself wondering what's the point to life if it doesn't have a higher meaning. I should add i'm not suffering depression or anything i'm not thinking there's no point to anything anymore or something like that just feel a void of sorts.

On the contrary I think life is much more meaningful as an atheist. Christians have this strange notion that somehow participating in some kind of lifelong entrance examination for heaven adds meaning. That is a bizarre notion.

For me at least, life is meaningful because I am responsible for my own actions and decisions. Not because I have to answer to some glorified father figure

HIB

Dick phelan wrote: »

First time poster to the forum, basically over the past two years or so i have slowly lost faith in god, i had given up on religion long ago and have never really followed it. However i still did have a faith in god, I wouldn't have classed myself as Christian or anything but just that i did feel there was some higher power or a god ect. Now however i have lost all faith in a god or higher power and would now say i am an Atheist. Many would be happy to reach this realization but i am not, i feel empty at times and during difficult times a big part of me wishes i had some sort of faith too lean on for comfort but i just don't see how there is or can be a god. My question is do any of you feel a void without faith or any advice on how to overcome that feeling?

I've been through a somewhat similar journey in the past 3 or 4 years. Yes, I do feel a bit of a void. For me, it was really difficult to accept that some of the people I have known and loved are gone forever. Their deaths were definitely easier to manage, when I felt there was a chance I would see them again. I still feel very sad when I think that the last time I ever spoke to them, was the last time I ever will speak to them. But, once you lose faith, I don't think there's ever any getting it back. So, I'll just have to muddle on!

Some people here are saying they felt liberated when they lost faith. I felt a little bit of that too. I realize now that I don't have much time left in existence, so I'm definitely not going to be wasting any of it on people I don't like, parties I don't like, jobs I don't like etc. That's pretty liberating.

The lack of 'purpose' in life doesn't really bother me. When I was religious, I didn't really think I had a purpose anyway. But I did believe that the universe did. While I'm not sure its a purpose as such, I still believe that there's vastly more to the physics of this universe than we currently understand. There may well be parallel universes, perhaps parallel 'me's', or perhaps even I have lived many times before and will do again. Who knows.... Maybe this guy is even right! http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

looksee

branie2 wrote: »

If I were an atheist, I would be at the start

Would be what, at the start of what? Not being difficult here, I am just interested but do not understand your point?

I have come to the conclusion that I am an atheist, I have no sense that there is any supreme being out there. In my teens I was very much involved with a (Methodist) church. It was very enjoyable and worthwhile time of my life. Even then, though, I was aware that I did not entirely buy all the stuff I was singing and talking about. Still I enjoyed the social aspects of it all and I have always appreciated having had good teenage years.

Eventually, and after a long number of years living in Ireland and being exposed to the Catholic Church I realised that I had no time for any of it.

One of the main things that put me off, beside the acute sense of things being made up to account for all the convolutions of belief, was the self-righteous attitude of people who called themselves believers. Mostly they are just fitting in with - and helping create and reinforce - social structures which they do not entirely understand. This is not an exclusive Catholic thing, the attitude is there among other churches, but in Ireland it overflows into the daily life of everyone whether they believe or not. The Catholic Church gives off an overwhelming sense of power and authority and people buy into it willingly, much more so, I think, than other Christian religious groupings. It is very close to Islam in many of these respects.

The superficial intentions of religious people, the expressed desire to do good and love your neighbour, are fine, it is the need to hang this onto a lot of rules and regulations about what you should believe that creates the problems.

I do think there is something that can fill that 'void' though.You do not have to be religious to care for and about others, to try and see good in people, to appreciate beauty, to want to care for the planet that we live on, to find aspects of life to love, to be enthusiastic, to respect and love yourself. If you allow yourself to slip into cynicism and dissatisfaction, then yes, there will be a void.

Being an atheist frees you from being judgmental, dogmatic and self-righteous. It does not have to be a grim, resentful, negatively critical experience, you can relax and enjoy the freedom to be yourself, and allow others the same courtesy.

Cabaal

I never gave up religion as I honestly never believed it was real, I always saw it no different to a fairytale and even my mother will comment on how when I was 5 I said I didn't like religion class at school. Sure i did communion etc, but that was for the cash

I've never felt a void, I fill my life with real life experiences and people. Things that actually exist and can be touched.

HIB

Cabaal wrote: »

I never gave up religion as I honestly never believed it was real, I always saw it no different to a fairytale and even my mother will comment on how when I was 5 I said I didn't like religion class at school. Sure i did communion etc, but that was for the cash

I've never felt a void, I fill my life with real life experiences and people. Things that actually exist and can be touched.

How did you cope as a child when people died? Grandparents for example.
I remember having the image of them living in a house just like ours, somewhere 'up there', and it was the most wonderfully comforting fairytale. Not sure how I would have managed without it, when I was that young.

eviltwin

Dick phelan wrote: »

No i'm not unhappy with regards meeting people ect i have very good family and friends, it's the latter i find myself wondering what's the point to life if it doesn't have a higher meaning. I should add i'm not suffering depression or anything i'm not thinking there's no point to anything anymore or something like that just feel a void of sorts.

This is something I don't understand about religion. Why is there only a purpose to life if there is the possibility of something after? That's kinda implying that the life we live now is just a means to an end, that what comes after is more important. I don't get it. Live in the here and now. What is the point of life? I think its to have as much fun as you can, make a good mark on the world and get through it without hurting anyone. Live for now, not for what might be there after.

Fleawuss

eviltwin wrote: »

This is something I don't understand about religion. Why is there only a purpose to life if there is the possibility of something after?

It might have a lot to do with the origins of religion. Human life for a very long time and still for many today is "nasty, brutish and short" and people needed a crutch to keep going, to face the thing. I read somewhere (I know, I know) that optimism is actually an evolutionary step to cope with life. We need hope.

Religion was a human development to deal with hardship. If it is ingrained into people in childhood then it becomes almost muscle memory hence the "void" felt by some.

MrPudding

Dick phelan wrote: »

No i'm not unhappy with regards meeting people ect i have very good family and friends, it's the latter i find myself wondering what's the point to life if it doesn't have a higher meaning. I should add i'm not suffering depression or anything i'm not thinking there's no point to anything anymore or something like that just feel a void of sorts.

I never got this myself. I was petty religious, as one point. Was a alter boy and went to mass several times a week.

When I gave up on the whole thing and embraced my atheism I never felt a void. For me it has been a more or less positive experience. I say more or less because there are two areas where I have a problem. First, speaking to bereaved people. I have no worthless platitudes with which to try to sooth their pain. That can be tricky. Secondly, when I look at my kids I wish I could watch them forever, but I know I can't. As side from that, it is all good.

With respect to your 'what's the point if there is no higher meaning' I just don't get this. First of all, why does their have to be a higher meaning? Why is that necessary? Can the reason for being not simply be that, being...?

If you must have a higher meaning then why not make up your own? I don't feel the need for a higher meaning, or finding a point, but at the same time my life does have meaning and it does have a point. This meaning, the point of my being are something that has developed over my life, not something I felt I needed to have, or something I struggled to find. It is simply something that developed over time, and now if someone asked me what the point of my life is, or what the meaning is, I can give them an answer.

For me I want to leave things a little better than they were when I found them. I have four wonderful children, and I want to raise them to want to leave things a little better than they found them. I want to give them the tools they need to have a full and enjoyable life where they get the things they want and need, whilst understanding the needs of others.

Would that not do you for a point or higher meaning?

MrP

SpaceTime

HIB wrote: »

How did you cope as a child when people died? Grandparents for example.
I remember having the image of them living in a house just like ours, somewhere 'up there', and it was the most wonderfully comforting fairytale. Not sure how I would have managed without it, when I was that young.

My parents and family didn't ever deal with death like that.

My grandad died when I was young and I was definitely very upset, but I think I'd have been even more upset thinking he was floating around somewhere.

You remember the person, all the good things about the person, talk about them, look at photos of them, celebrate them but you also let go, mourn them and say goodbye.

I always had the sense that they live on in my memory, in stuff they did, in things they made, in their kids (if they have any) and so on.

Understanding that life's finite tends to make you want to make the most of what you've got.

My granny had a non religious funeral (Irish atheist grannies exist) and we just celebrated her. She was hugely into music so, a lot of her favourite pieces were played and photos were put up and people actually got up and just talked about her and their memories of her.

I don't feel she's "up there". I do feel she's a big part of me though and not just the fact that we share some genes but, she partially raised me so, that influence lives on.

I honestly do think you have to deal with death and mark someone's passing very seriously. It's something we need to do psychologically.

The biggest grief issues I've seen have been where very emotionally oppressed people have had someone die and have sort of brushed it aside without really dealing with the loss.
I've see a few English "stiff upper lip" types do this and it usually ends up causing problems.

Atheism In my case anyway, is very much about embracing being human and the big messy, hug needing aspects of that too.

looksee

MrPudding wrote: »

speaking to bereaved people. I have no worthless platitudes with which to try to sooth their pain. That can be tricky.

If there is one thing I hate it is the pre-packed platitudes. When one of our children died aged 14 months, someone, with the best intentions I suppose, said to me 'now you have a little angel in heaven to intercede for you' or some such claptrap.

It wasn't about what might have comforted me, it was all about the rote expression of what she believed. Even in my state of exhausted apathy it made me mad, fortunately I couldn't be bothered to respond.

HIB

SpaceTime wrote: »

My parents and family didn't ever deal with death like that.

My grandad died when I was young and I was definitely very upset, but I think I'd have been even more upset thinking he was floating around somewhere.

You remember the person, all the good things about the person, talk about them, look at photos of them, celebrate them but you also let go, mourn them and say goodbye.

I always had the sense that they live on in my memory, in stuff they did, in things they made, in their kids (if they have any) and so on.

Understanding that life's finite tends to make you want to make the most of what you've got.

My granny had a non religious funeral (Irish atheist grannies exist) and we just celebrated her. She was hugely into music so, a lot of her favourite pieces were played and photos were put up and people actually got up and just talked about her and their memories of her.

I don't feel she's "up there". I do feel she's a big part of me though and not just the fact that we share some genes but, she partially raised me so, that influence lives on.

I honestly do think you have to deal with death and mark someone's passing very seriously. It's something we need to do psychologically.

The biggest grief issues I've seen have been where very emotionally oppressed people have had someone die and have sort of brushed it aside without really dealing with the loss.
I've see a few English "stiff upper lip" types do this and it usually ends up causing problems.

Atheism In my case anyway, is very much about embracing being human and the big messy, hug needing aspects of that too.

Accepting my atheism has meant I have had to begin the grieving process all over again, in ways. I like the idea of the person 'living on' through what they leave behind. It does help in dealing with it. But, for me anyway, that's still too little when I think of one particular friend that passed awaywhen she was quite young. The loss of my religious outlook on this has hurt me quite badly. What's hardest really is that she really has not and will not share in any of my life experiences. I used always sort of 'talk' to her, and felt she was there to witness the big moments in my life. Knowing that I was never really talking to anything but thin air, and that I really never will get the chance to talk to her ever again - its hard. I really do envy people with faith sometimes... But I can never go back to that.

Hotblack Desiato

HIB wrote: »

How did you cope as a child when people died? Grandparents for example.
I remember having the image of them living in a house just like ours, somewhere 'up there', and it was the most wonderfully comforting fairytale. Not sure how I would have managed without it, when I was that young.

My grandmother died when I was 8, I never imagined her being anywhere else or that I might see her again, it didn't bother me, I just accepted it. Religion always felt like a badly written fairytale to me.

magicbastarder

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

My grandmother died when I was 8, I never imagined her being anywhere else or that I might see her again, it didn't bother me, I just accepted it.

i remember as a young teenager getting annoyed at the idea that 'your grandparents are in heaven, looking down on you', as it kinda ruined masturbation for me.

Stealthfins

The only thing you can do with that void is find new interests and maybe try fly fishing or take up photography,or something you never got the chance to do.

As long as you don't end up like one of those people who are obsessed with their new found atheism,that's just as extreme as the obsession for metaphysics and religion.

Believe me I've gone from being religious to interested in metaphysics to atheism.

Now I'd consider myself agnostic.

Hotblack Desiato

Oh no, not this again.

Almost every atheist is also an agnostic. Theism/atheism is a question of belief, gnosticism/agnosticism is a question of knowledge.

Stealthfins

Oh no I've opened up pandoras box.

Is it a biscuit or a bar ?

branie2

Is it a black-hole shaped void? :P

legspin

Stealthfins wrote: »

Oh no I've opened up pandoras box.

Is it a biscuit or a bar ?

It's a Jaffa Cake....

SpaceTime

Chocolate covered Kimberleys or Tunnocks Tea Cakes!!

DublinWriter

Stealthfins wrote: »

Oh no I've opened up pandoras box.

Is it a biscuit or a bar ?

A selection box hopefully (only 17 more Fridays to Christmas folks!).

The process was a bit of a cliff-jump for me also, a bit like waking up in the house as a child to find your parents had gone.

I wouldn't say that Buddhism filled my particular hole (steady), but nearly everything it thought confirmed my choice and it brought a particular type of solace in that not everything requires a reason and that it was more important to live in the moment and be aware of your actions and their consequences.

branie2

DVD or Blu-ray box?

Stealthfins

A fishing tackle box ðŸ˜
Full of the best rapala saltwater lures lol

nozzferrahhtoo

Dick phelan wrote: »

My question is do any of you feel a void without faith or any advice on how to overcome that feeling?

Not me, I never believed so I never opened up that void to begin with. If you have time on you tube though you might enjoy Julia Sweeney who made a one person play called "Letting go of god" and she covers a lot of the emotions she went through which might map on to your own. Or if you are a reading man you might enjoy Dan Barker who wrote about his transition from preacher to atheist.

But as with anything if you scalpel a large hole in your life then there will be a void and it needs to be filled with something. What that something is, is yours to control now. There is no one on a pulpit telling you how or what, but there are plenty of us here with ideas and advice if you have any direct questions.

Definitely start with biscuits though

Dick phelan wrote: »

it's the latter i find myself wondering what's the point to life if it doesn't have a higher meaning.

I must say my own personal feelings are the opposite of yours. I find the idea of an after life, especially an eternal one, takes the value out of this life.

Christopher Hitchens said it well when he was told he was dying. He described being told this as being like attending the best party ever, being tapped on the shoulder, and being told to leave.... even though the party will go on without you.

He described then the after life idea as being tapped on the shoulder, told you can NEVER leave.... and what's more the host _insists_ you have a good time while you are there.

Take for example the Jesus narrative that the Christians subscribe to. They talk about a man who gave his life for humanity and we are supposed to be grateful. But they tell us this man now lives an eternal life of bliss and dominion. Where is the sacrifice?

It is an insult to anyone who has given their life to a person, place, or ideal. It erodes the very value of this life. Much of the meaning in life is derived from its transience, fragility and delicacies. The after life concept does not give me a void... it prevents one.

HIB wrote: »

How did you cope as a child when people died? Grandparents for example.

I lost my first girlfriend (of 4 years) when I was around 16. I did not cope well at first. At all. I did the exact wrong thing and tried to scalpel her out of my life by burning or destroying everything that connected me to her. Something I regret now and always will. All before getting pretty terminal on myself.

What got me through when THAT failed was reconnecting with her memory. Washing myself in everything that connected me to her (hard to do given everything I had destroyed) and in fact the strongest thing that connected me to her was the music we used to steal off my sister and dance in my room to. Van Morrison, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen and.... the rest of that crowd

And this is how I and a lot of "atheists" (though I do not personally identify with, or myself by, that term) get through grief. We realize it is not a wound to ignore or put sticky plasters on, but one to treat and confront and nurse better. The quick fix of religion... the denial that the person is really dead at all... is like ignoring an infected wound that will only get worse in time. Yes it hurts a lot more to face the grief and work through it, but over all it is the better solution to my mind and in my own life. Mileage may vary

HIB wrote: »

Not sure how I would have managed without it, when I was that young.

You might have surprised yourself. Kids are extremely resourceful and heal well. You found a path to healing at the time and it worked for you, so you might find it hard to imagine how you would have coped otherwise. But in all likelihood, as hard as it might be to imagine, you likely would have been just fine.

eviltwin wrote: »

This is something I don't understand about religion. Why is there only a purpose to life if there is the possibility of something after?

I think Terry Pratchett hit on this one well. He pointed out that Homo Sapien *wise man" or "knowledgeable man" was not the best name for our species to pick. He suggests "Pan Narrans" would have been better or "the storytelling chimpanzee".

And he has it exactly right. We are a meme machine.... or put more plainly we have a brain that loves to live by a narrative. We crave narrative to our lives. And the ultimate machine, like it or not, for providing a narrative that is congruent to much of our desires and ideas.... is the religious machine.

Stealthfins wrote: »

The only thing you can do with that void is find new interests and maybe try fly fishing or take up photography,or something you never got the chance to do.

If you have not already, this sentence moves me to recommend the very short book "I have never met an idiot on the river".

pauldla

TBH the only void I feel is when reading the thoughts and comments of certain religious types; which I thus try to a-void.

smacl

HIB wrote: »

How did you cope as a child when people died? Grandparents for example.
I remember having the image of them living in a house just like ours, somewhere 'up there', and it was the most wonderfully comforting fairytale. Not sure how I would have managed without it, when I was that young.

My father died recently and his departure most definitely left a void of sorts. Death of a family member will usually do this and is a clear reminder of our own mortality. I consider the deception introduced by religion that we are somehow immortal and can escape death to be a particularly unpleasant form of preying on weak.

While I'm a 2nd generation atheist, I can fully understand how someone who abandons religion can feel a void as a result, as I could imagine someone who once considered themselves immortal to now be mortal a rather crushing blow. Glad to never have been there. As for the rest of it, I manage to have a strong sense of wonder, imagination and soulfulness without any deity or supernatural belief.