Plane crash near Blackbushe Airport, Hampshire

h3000

Seems to have been some sort of plane crash in Hampshire.
https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/627130182508216320

jimbis

Video of the Aftermath here

https://mobile.twitter.com/tubman89/status/627136372122497026

Doesn't seem to be apart large aircraft if that's any consolation...

h3000

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/plane-crashes-at-hampshires-blackbushe-airport-10431181.html

rrpc

Looks like it was a small aircraft.

h3000

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/627160945882738688

4 people on board.

pepe the prawn

Apparently it landed long and fast and couldn't stop in time, overshot the threshold, over a ditch and into a car park area.. Doesn't look good for the souls on board

smurfjed

Feck.... I was on this aircraft last year chatting to the pilot.

smurfjed

Newspapers are going to have a field day when they learn the passengers names.

A Dub in Glasgo

RIP to those onboard

BZ

smurfjed wrote: »

Newspapers are going to have a field day when they learn the passengers names.

I can see the headlines already. The likes of The Sun will run with this for a few days.

Happyman42

smurfjed wrote: »

Newspapers are going to have a field day when they learn the passengers names.

Well known passengers?

CONM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Well known passengers?

Certainly owned by an infamous family, it is not yet clear if any of them were on-board at the time of the accident.

FREDNISMO

Bin Laden family

fr336

Now that is quite the irony

beer enigma

fr336 wrote: »

Now that is quite the irony

O

Could be long distant relatives, doesn't matter who they are, this is four fatalities at a British Airport, very sad

CONM

fr336 wrote: »

Now that is quite the irony

Osama's father and half brother were both killed in plane crashes, so not even the first time. There's certainly an irony there. Still no real confirmation that any of them were on-board though. Personally I'd be surprised if they'd be on such a small jet, they are an incredibly wealthy family.

fr336

CONM wrote: »

Osama's father and half brother were both killed in plane crashes, so not even the first time. There's certainly an irony there. Still no real confirmation that any of them were on-board though. Personally I'd be surprised if they'd be on such a small jet, they are an incredibly wealthy family.

Who knew the Bushes But that's another thread :pac:

Danbo!

CONM wrote: »

Osama's father and half brother were both killed in plane crashes, so not even the first time....

According to a post on Twitter, Osamas father was killed in a plane crash in the 60s, in a plane bearing the same reg HZ-IBN.

CONM

Danbo! wrote: »

According to a post on Twitter, Osamas father was killed in a plane crash in the 60s, in a plane bearing the same reg HZ-IBN.

Yeah, that seems to be the case. Highly unusual move to reuse a registration number that was in a fatal accident.

efb

Jon Williams ‏@WilliamsJon 1h1 hour ago Brooklyn, NY
Jon Williams retweeted Saudi Embassy UK
#Saudi ambassador in London confirms #BinLadens killed in #Blackbushe plane crash - offers condolences to family.

https://twitter.com/WilliamsJon/status/627302228974542849

efb

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/osama-bin-laden-relatives-killed-uk-plane-crash-150801014920230.html

Osama bin Laden's relatives killed in UK plane crash

smurfjed

Flight data captured by AvGen Limited showed that as the aircraft approached the airfield it was flying at 1,250 feet, but as it turned around the circuit before landing, it increased altitude to 1,750 feet - at a critical time in the flight when it should have been losing height.
As the pilot, Mazen Al Doaja, steered the aircraft around towards the runway, he pushed the jet into a steep dive of 3,000 feet per minute.
Aviation experts are baffled as to why an experienced pilot would have continued the approach when the aircraft was not properly lined up on the runway on a stable approach.

.

rrpc

smurfjed wrote: »

Flight data captured by AvGen Limited showed that as the aircraft approached the airfield it was flying at 1,250 feet, but as it turned around the circuit before landing, it increased altitude to 1,750 feet - at a critical time in the flight when it should have been losing height.
As the pilot, Mazen Al Doaja, steered the aircraft around towards the runway, he pushed the jet into a steep dive of 3,000 feet per minute.
Aviation experts are baffled as to why an experienced pilot would have continued the approach when the aircraft was not properly lined up on the runway on a stable approach.

Seems highly unusual alright. Is it possible the pilot was taken suddenly ill?

smurfjed

Is it possible the pilot was taken suddenly ill?

I doubt it a Farnborough is very close with a longer runway.

The 300 has awesome avionics, but only if you use them.

smurfjed

https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/55c367e0ed915d5346000010/S2-2015_HZ-IBN.pdf Sad.

pepe the prawn

smurfjed wrote: »

https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/55c367e0ed915d5346000010/S2-2015_HZ-IBN.pdf Sad.

Preliminary report is fairly clear, pilot should have initiated a go around, approach speed was far too high and landed far too deep along 25, didn't stand a chance of stopping it before he ran out out of runway.

rrpc

smurfjed wrote: »

https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/55c367e0ed915d5346000010/S2-2015_HZ-IBN.pdf Sad.

What seems surprising to me is that he was 50 feet above the runway at the entrance but didn't touch down for another 700 metres. A rough calculation tells me that it took ten seconds from there which seems like a long time (unless my calculations are wrong of course).

pepe the prawn

rrpc wrote: »

What seems surprising to me is that he was 50 feet above the runway at the entrance but didn't touch down for another 700 metres. A rough calculation tells me that it took ten seconds from there which seems like a long time (unless my calculations are wrong of course).

If he was following the PAPI's it would be standard to be crossing the threshold at 50ft. I would imagine that at the speed he was doing he ate up 700m trying to put it down.

I would be interested to know if he had much short field experience in that particular aircraft, whilst the aircraft may have been well capable of operating there, the pilot may not have been. Pure speculation on my part I'll add.

smurfjed

I would be interested to know if he had much short field experience in that particular aircraft, whilst the aircraft may have been well capable of operating there, the pilot may not have been.

From other sites, 11000 hours, 1100 on type, extremely familiar with the airport.

This aircraft should never have gotten below 1000 feet!

fr336

So what the hell happened then?

smurfjed

As per the report, Unstable approach, high speed, landed deep, overran runway at high speed, exploded on impact.

keith16

smurfjed wrote: »

As per the report, Unstable approach, high speed, landed deep, overran runway at high speed, exploded on impact.

What does landed deep mean? Approach too steep?

smurfjed

Sorry, landing deep or landing long, basically he landed a long way down the runway.

pepe the prawn

smurfjed wrote: »

From other sites, 11000 hours, 1100 on type, extremely familiar with the airport.

Jesus.. We may never find out the reasoning behind it, Any CVR in the phenom I wonder?

it's also possible that the traffic alerts while he was joining the circuit and setting up the approach may have led to loss of situational awareness and the required speeds..

de biz

CVR is standard equipment on the 300.

Negative_G

smurfjed wrote: »

From other sites, 11000 hours, 1100 on type, extremely familiar with the airport.

This aircraft should never have gotten below 1000 feet!

I understand you've done your share of corporate flying in your career.

Do you think there may have been an element of 'corporate pressure' to get the aircraft on the ground? I can't seem to think of any other reason.

Safety is always the number one priority but I think its fair to say the corporate world is more 'cut throat' than commercial. Hence the added pressure.

Dolphie

To the best of my knowledge these jets are known as VLJs (very light jets) and are allowed to operate comerically with only one pilot. Would that be a factor? Would a second pair of ears/eyes etc. have helped? Has corporate pressure added to this and possibly future incidents?

smurfjed

To the best of my knowledge these jets are known as VLJs (very light jets)

The Phenom 100 is a VLJ, but the 300 has a max weight of 18000 lbs so is above that category.

Corporate flying is extremely different to airline flying as you must interact directly with the owner/passengers and they may be the ones calling the shots. The ideal flight department will have standards similar to an airline and if the PIC sticks to these standards, then the management will support them. Unfortunately with small flight departments this may not exist, so the PIC gets to fight all his own battles.

We may never know what pressure this PIC was under, but he obviously felt that he HAD to land and he pushed it way too far. With the technology in the -300, it would be easy to have defined approach gates to ensure that a stabilised approach was performed.

As for single pilot operations, even with the wonderful technology in the -300, it would be nice to have a 2nd set of eyes / hands.

rrpc

smurfjed wrote: »

We may never know what pressure this PIC was under, but he obviously felt that he HAD to land and he pushed it way too far. With the technology in the -300, it would be easy to have defined approach gates to ensure that a stabilised approach was performed.

From the report, it says that 1nm out the aircraft was travelling at 150kts and pretty much the same speed when it crossed the runway threshold. Would you be able to tell me why he wouldn't (or couldn't) reduce speed in that time? Was it a function of the height he had to lose after changing altitude to avoid the microlight?

smurfjed

Would you be able to tell me why he wouldn't (or couldn't) reduce speed in that time?

Sorry but I don't have a clue. I don't know the flap limiting speeds for the aircraft nor if the aircraft has spoilers, flap relief systems or auto throttle, so without knowing what he should have done, I can't guess about what he didn't do.

smurfjed

Another VLJ off a runway, this time in Danbury USA.

pepe the prawn

Accident report into the Blackbushe crash.

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-investigation-to-embraer-emb-505-phenom-300-hz-ibn