Whiskeys to buy and keep.

Azza89

Looking for some advice on Whiskeys to buy and keep. I would like to be able to buy 2 or 3 and keep them for a few years and then sell one or two and then be able to enjoy the other bottle for "free" as such.

What Whiskeys would people advise ? (My budget wouldnt be too big either to be honest)

I bought a couple of bottles of Greenore before it went off the shelves and a couple of bottles of Redbreast Mano a Lamh but thats the extent of it really.

Im not looking to make money from it, just be able to buy a couple of nice bottles which I could enjoy in a few years time.

Thanks !

L1011

I'd imagine that nothing you can afford on a normal budget is going to appreciate in value to any significant extent over a few years.

Greenore has just been relabelled - it'll be a very long time before the normal 8 year old bottles become worth more than the current retail price of the 'new' Kilbeggan Grain 8.

Brockagh

That may or may not be the case, who knows? Green Spot, the bottle from just a few years ago, now goes for over 300 euro. The Jameson Caskmates, first edition, sold for 35 euro, but when it ran out, one sold for £200... Then they released another batch and the price went right down again. Maybe the second edition might be worth a punt for the price.

I have no idea what's going to happen to the price of whisky, but closed distilleries have done very well in recent years. I don't know how much you have to spend... you can pick up Imperial and Caperdonich for around 100 euro. Littlemill is getting more and more popular, but you'd have to spend between 150 and 200 for a newly released single cask bottling.

You used to be about to buy Karuizawas for under 100 euro. Now the cheapest would be 500 euro, but some are over 10,000 euro... Hanyu the same. Brora, Port Ellen, Banff, Rosebank, St Magdalene... they've all shot up in price.

But who knows, it could all collapse in the morning. I'm not recommending that any use whiskey as an investment. Best buy stuff you'd like to drink.

Azza89

Cheers Brockagh !

I dont know much about the names you mentioned to be honest but ill have a lot into them, I would only buy something that I would personally like myself just incase I wasnt able to sell it on and then Id enjoy it when I opened it. Not looking to invest as such.

irish_goat

Celtic Whiskey shop have released a few limited edition whiskies, have heard an expert say he bought a couple to store away. No idea what sort of value you're talking about though.




As Brockagh says, as long as you buy nice whiskey then you can at least always drink it if it doesn't appreciate in value.

calnand

The only whiskey I can think of is mideltons Dair Ghaelach. It's the first whiskey in years to be aged in Irish oak. It's a bit expensive at 260 but seeing as there were only 10 barrels made of it. I never knew the caskmates went up that much I bought two bottles, and kept one unopened.

Ageyev

Azza89 wrote: »

just be able to buy a couple of nice bottles which I could enjoy in a few years time.

Thanks !

Whiskey changes flavor as it ages in the cask not the bottle so a bottle of Redbreast today will not taste "better" in ten years. If opened if may taste a bit worse.

I would suggest buying whatever whiskey you enjoy. It's all really subjective.

Azza89

Yeah I did get one of the celtic cask before and it seems to have gone up in price but is now sold out (i think) so not sure what price it last sold at.

The midleton is a bit pricey for myself to be honest. Although from what I can see, all midletons seems to appreciate no matter what they are. Even the normal VR seems to appreciate quite well.

Ageyev, its more so that I could open them having sold another one for more than I payed for it and it wouldnt cost me a thing. I know they dont age in the bottle (which is unfortunate)

Brockagh

The first edition is available here https://www.whiskyauctioneer.com/lot/013807/jameson-caskmates-1st-edition

Not a bad price, but don't know what it will be by the time the auction ends. Shouldn't be much more than the release price, I'd say.

Azza89

Yeah that was 38 when it was first released. Just looking at that website and there is a bottle of Mano a Lamh on sale at £115 sterling. Seems to have appreciated already !

Faith+1

Reminds me a little of my friend who bought 3 bottles of Jameson 20 year old whiskey a few years back.

He seems to think that if he keeps them for 10 or 20 years that they'll be a 40 year old bottle which he can sell for nice profit. He's stored them in his attic under towels and rotates them once a week to keep them in good drinkable condition.....as he tells me.

Trying to explain to him that if he has the bottles over 100 years they will still be 20 year old bottles just falls on deaf ears. God my friend is an idiot.

Brockagh

Faith+1 wrote: »

Reminds me a little of my friend who bought 3 bottles of Jameson 20 year old whiskey a few years back.

He seems to think that if he keeps them for 10 or 20 years that they'll be a 40 year old bottle which he can sell for nice profit. He's stored them in his attic under towels and rotates them once a week to keep them in good drinkable condition.....as he tells me.

Trying to explain to him that if he has the bottles over 100 years they will still be 20 year old bottles just falls on deaf ears. God my friend is an idiot.

It would be worth a lot of money if it was a 20 year old. Not sure I have ever seen one.

Saruwatari

Good thing I hung onto my original Caskmates bottle it seems!

Only thing I have sitting aside for some time is a bottle of the commemorative Tullamore D.E.W Phoenix they released only 2014 bottles of.

Ageyev

Faith+1 wrote: »

Reminds me a little of my friend who bought 3 bottles of Jameson 20 year old whiskey a few years back.

He seems to think that if he keeps them for 10 or 20 years that they'll be a 40 year old bottle which he can sell for nice profit. He's stored them in his attic under towels and rotates them once a week to keep them in good drinkable condition.....as he tells me.

Trying to explain to him that if he has the bottles over 100 years they will still be 20 year old bottles just falls on deaf ears. God my friend is an idiot.

Yeah it's not wine.

"Inferior whiskey kills Pope!" :pac:

Niall_daaS

I think the stuff from the independent distilleries like Glendalough or West Cork might go up. Those companies are pretty new to the market and a) will maybe not make it through the next 10 years or b) are bought by a big player and change their style and assortment and c) are maybe more open to experiments and bringing out new things and letting the older ones go. And in general their output isn't that big at all so bottles might become sold out quicker than a special edition from Jameson or the likes.

L1011

Niall_daaS wrote: »

I think the stuff from the independent distilleries like Glendalough or West Cork might go up. Those companies are pretty new to the market and a) will maybe not make it through the next 10 years or b) are bought by a big player and change their style and assortment and c) are maybe more open to experiments and bringing out new things and letting the older ones go. And in general their output isn't that big at all so bottles might become sold out quicker than a special edition from Jameson or the likes.

West Cork's young-aged products (Drombeg / Lough Hyne) are utter muck that I ended up drinking with Irn Bru to mask the taste so I'd be very wary of assuming anything they have that is >3 is going to be drinkable enough to have a residual value. Would like, for the sake of the independent sector, to be proven wrong though.

calnand

I think Dingle are launching their whiskey this year. That might be a good one.

Niall_daaS

L1011 wrote: »

West Cork's young-aged products (Drombeg / Lough Hyne) are utter muck that I ended up drinking with Irn Bru to mask the taste so I'd be very wary of assuming anything they have that is >3 is going to be drinkable enough to have a residual value. Would like, for the sake of the independent sector, to be proven wrong though.

I must say I never had one of them so far and my opinion was only based on an potential market behaviour, not on the actual worth measured by taste But I share your point that hopefully those little spots will be fine in future.

yknaa

The only bottle I've kept is Locks Grand Crew. Interesting story about the cask and the bottling http://grandcrew.iwai.ie/ No clue to its monetary value.

Greg81

Interesting thread.

3 years ago I bought Johnnie Walker 15yo green label. It is discontinued so maybe it will be worth something in few years.

Niall_daaS

Greg81 wrote: »

Interesting thread.

3 years ago I bought Johnnie Walker 15yo green label. It is discontinued so maybe it will be worth something in few years.

Don't know how much you paid. Goes now for like 60- 70 EUR.

the beer revolu

L1011 wrote: »

West Cork's young-aged products (Drombeg / Lough Hyne) are utter muck that I ended up drinking with Irn Bru to mask the taste so I'd be very wary of assuming anything they have that is >3 is going to be drinkable enough to have a residual value. Would like, for the sake of the independent sector, to be proven wrong though.

Neither Drombeg or Lough Hyne are whiskey.

Brockagh

Frank McHardy is now helping West Cork Distillers so hopefully their stuff will get better (I have not tasted any of their stuff, so I'm not talking from experience). Let's hope they get it right.

They have relaunched the JW Green in limited quantities now. Not sure if the bottle is different.

Greg81

Niall_daaS wrote: »

Don't know how much you paid. Goes now for like 60- 70 EUR.

Paid similar price.

Greg81

Brockagh wrote: »

They have relaunched the JW Green in limited quantities now. Not sure if the bottle is different.

Yes it is. There is a steel cap, no cork.

L1011

the beer revolu wrote: »

Neither Drombeg or Lough Hyne are whiskey.

Marketing claims (on the bottle/display packaging, on the distillery website, etc) is that its the product that will eventually be sold as whiskey, when old enough (and not watered down to 20-32%).

Regardless, they're disgusting cloying messes.

the beer revolu

L1011 wrote: »

Marketing claims (on the bottle/display packaging, on the distillery website, etc) is that its the product that will eventually be sold as whiskey, when old enough (and not watered down to 20-32%).

Regardless, they're disgusting cloying messes.

I've just been through the website and can find no such claims.

L1011

the beer revolu wrote: »

I've just been through the website and can find no such claims.

I'll take a look later.

No matter what, it suggests they're willing to put their name to terrible product

rubadub

Faith+1 wrote: »

He's stored them in his attic under towels and rotates them once a week to keep them in good drinkable condition.....as he tells me.

That's bizarre, not that he thinks it will continue to age, thats very common. It's crazy that he has gone to all this bother but not bothered to look it up on google. Like how did he even come up with this rotation idea?

I have added toasted oak to bottle of rum, which does continue to age. I am surprised there are not more spirits sold with wood in the bottles.

the beer revolu

rubadub wrote: »

That's bizarre, not that he thinks it will continue to age, thats very common. It's crazy that he has gone to all this bother but not bothered to look it up on google. Like how did he even come up with this rotation idea?

I have added toasted oak to bottle of rum, which does continue to age. I am surprised there are not more spirits sold with wood in the bottles.

I read an article recently by a distiller which suggested that unfiltered spirits do continue to change in the bottle.
I'll look for it tomorrow.

rubadub

the beer revolu wrote: »

I read an article recently by a distiller which suggested that unfiltered spirits do continue to change in the bottle.

I have read about light having some effect. If you look up hobby distillation sites you will see they get up to all sorts of techniques, and most will report definite changes in the first few months of leaving it. Some will leave it open to breathe or forcibly aerate with airstones.

Many will treat in various ways before redistillation too. Some by products can be turned back into ethanol too.

the beer revolu

rubadub wrote: »

I have read about light having some effect. If you look up hobby distillation sites you will see they get up to all sorts of techniques, and most will report definite changes in the first few months of leaving it. Some will leave it open to breathe or forcibly aerate with airstones.

Many will treat in various ways before redistillation too. Some by products can be turned back into ethanol too.

Here's the article.
https://istillblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/02/scottish-single-malt-whisky/

rubadub

the beer revolu wrote: »

Here's the article.
https://istillblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/02/scottish-single-malt-whisky/

Interesting. Even if no aging took place I expect some might pay a premium for an old bottle as they might believe it was simply better made back then.

Another development is to release whiskies at 40%. That’s too low an ABV for tailsy alcohols to stay in solution. And since distillers do not want a film of oil on top of their whisky … more filtering is applied to get rid of these oils.

this reminds me of another technique I read of recently, they called it hydro-separation. They would distil and dilute down to about 25% or maybe it was 30% which supposedly gets all these oils out of solution. They would let a large vat of spirit settle for weeks. Then they would siphon or otherwise drain the centre section of the alcohol. It supposedly settled out into different layers and they were taking out the section they favoured most. Sort of similar in a way to the usual "cutting" of spirits, taking a heads, main run and tails cut while distilling. Most doing this were trying to make a flavourless vodka.

Keeping the spirit in a warm place probably speeds it up too, I was reading about speed aging of whiskeys too.

I still expect the lad with the whiskey in the attic thinks it is going to turn into a normal jameson into a 18 year old one, and is likely unaware of these types of "aging".

L1011

Referring to whiskey bottled at 40% - the standard for pretty much all normal priced products since the first world war - as a "development" as if it was new is a bit strange. Rest of the article makes sense, though.

I would imagine all Jameson-branded products (Except possibly the new Select Reserve Cask Strength) are chill filtered due to the usual problems of <46% spirits and the oil separation etc.

Brockagh

The Jameson RVR and the Black Barrel from Bow St and Midleton Distillery aren't chill filtered, I think.

I have tasted many old Jamesons and other whiskies from the early to mid 1900s and the are all kind of 'dusty'. I wonder if this is the style of the time or do they develop this over very long periods of time.

I think whisky dies change in an open bottle, particularly if there's a bit taken out of it.

Ageyev

Brockagh wrote: »

The Jameson RVR and the Black Barrel from Bow St and Midleton Distillery aren't chill filtered, I think.

I have tasted many old Jamesons and other whiskies from the early to mid 1900s and the are all kind of 'dusty'. I wonder if this is the style of the time or do they develop this over very long periods of time.

I think whisky dies change in an open bottle, particularly if there's a bit taken out of it.

My grandmother always kept one bottle of Hennessy for Christmas. After she died there was about a third left in the bottle which could have been open and sitting in a press for up to ten years. I tasted a bit of it before dumping it, there was very little flavour in it.

L1011

Brandy / cognac suffer a lot from being left open.

pink_polkadot

L1011 wrote: »

Brandy / cognac suffer a lot from being left open.

To define "Being left open", this doesnt mean being left without a cork/lid/stopper?
It means that the seal was broken, is that correct?

L1011

pink_polkadot wrote: »

To define "Being left open", this doesnt mean being left without a cork/lid/stopper?
It means that the seal was broken, is that correct?

Yeah, seal broken - being opened to the air and not fully drunk, whether restopped or not.

Cognac is relatively high abv% and doesn't suffer as badly as, say, vermouth but anything made from wine will go a little bit dodgy over time if open. Ten years would have done it in fairly badly

fret_wimp2

L1011 wrote: »

Yeah, seal broken - being opened to the air and not fully drunk, whether restopped or not.

Cognac is relatively high abv% and doesn't suffer as badly as, say, vermouth but anything made from wine will go a little bit dodgy over time if open. Ten years would have done it in fairly badly

does that mean that when they are sealed theres nitrogen or some unreactive gas pumped in to fill the remaining empty space in the bottle?

L1011

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

does that mean that when they are sealed theres nitrogen or some unreactive gas pumped in to fill the remaining empty space in the bottle?

There's a finite amount of air in that space. Far more gets in when its opened.

This is why wine doesn't oxidise with the amount of air in the top, but goes to crap if left open or recorked without pressurising.

Azza89

Just wondering does anyone have any experience with selling a bottle or two ? Where would be a good place to look at?

Brockagh

Azza89 wrote: »

Just wondering does anyone have any experience with selling a bottle or two ? Where would be a good place to look at?

whiskyauctioneer.com is very good. Another good one is scotchwhiskyauctions.com. There are lots more too.

Edit: also www.whisky.auction/ and just-whisky.co.uk.

Ostrom

Might be worth picking up some Teeling 21/30 before the Dublin make spirit is ready - I assume supplies of the former are finite.

Azza89

Anyone know anything about the new Powers Aviation releasea that is in the airport ?

lord lucan

Azza89 wrote: »

Anyone know anything about the new Powers Aviation releasea that is in the airport ?

It's a 14 and a half year old single cask. Haven't tried it but I'd expect that it's like John's Lane with an extra couple of years maturation. Definitely one for the collectors imo, €200 is a pretty hefty price tag when the John's Lane retails for €55 in the airport and represents much better value.

If I get a chance I'll post up the official blurb about it from IDL.

lord lucan

Ostrom wrote: »

Might be worth picking up some Teeling 21/30 before the Dublin make spirit is ready - I assume supplies of the former are finite.

The 21 is due to be replaced by a 23 and the 26 by a 28 afaik.

lord lucan