Moderator who is not moderating fairly.

Seve OB

I created this post to seek some help from experts as I am new to this area. As you can see, it quickly derailed and it got nasty when I was told to let the fish die quicker (by another moderator of all people). I can accept that I made mistakes, but I feel that the moderator DBB has based his moderation on personal feelings of the matters raised rather than acting impartially.

Firstly I had requested that as I had been banned, could DBB re-open the thread so I could clarify points I had made, which were misinterpreted by some, as I had not previously been given the opportunity. I even went so far as to write out exactly what I wanted to post, so that he could see I was not intending to cause any further argument. He said he was willing to until he read my request for him to review his own post (which I have reported separately for being factually incorrect). I had discussed it with DBB and asked him to review it, but was told that I was being argumentative and inflammatory and therefore he would not review it or re-open the thread. You can review the pm’s which have gone back and forward between us or I can forward them on.

I have therefore posted a separate thread to clarify my misunderstood points. DBB has just deleted that thread straight away. I really didn’t want it on another thread, but I do feel strongly that I must be allowed to clarify to other people the full facts of the position I am in and what I really meant by comments they misinterpreted. This has all stemmed from a simple request to allow me to clarify to other people what I actually meant and so that they don’t think I am someone who is some kind of animal hater/killer.

I cracked a joke a few months ago on a thread, and I admit that it may have been in bad taste. But it was a joke. It was taken as one by most people, but I got warned, which was fair enough. But I overstepped the mark with DBB when I told him to get his funny bone checked. Ever since then, I feel he has it in for me. He pretty much admits that in his pm's to me, where he calls me a troublemaker and argumentative along with warning me about my behaviour all across boards and letting me know that I am under scrutiny. I think that being a moderator has let his ego get to him.

Boards is a place for discussions and sometimes those discussions can become heated arguments. But sometimes there is a right and a wrong. Sometimes, there is best practice, but no actual right and wrong. I may not have followed best practice in relation to the fish tank my kids got, but I have done nothing wrong, yet DBB and others have let their clouded judgement decide that I have done wrong. If DBB is allowed to continue to be a moderator (which incidentally I have no problem with), well then he must realise that with that power comes responsibility and it should not be abused because of personal feelings or opinions.

So I would appreciate if you guys could review the situation and allow me to make my post.

The Hill Billy

Hi there. Unfortunately, neither humanji nor I are available to deal with this matter immediately. Hopefully, one of us will get to look into this over the weekend.

tHB

Seve OB

Hi there,

I know you guys are busy, but was wondering if any of you had a chance to review this yet? I would also like to add to my above post a few more specific reasons why I feel I have been treated unfairly by DBB.

The thread in question was locked long after I was banned and therefore implies that my banning was not the reason it was locked. I see no reason therefore why I should not be allowed to post to it. Only after the post made by Ranchu which really backs up my argument did the thread get locked.

Ranchu wrote:

If you pull out the black plastic frame there is an impeller in the base. There is most likely something caught in it. Give it a clean and stick it back in.

While the people here are right about the ethics of keeping goldfish in a tank that size long term they should have a look at themselves for not offering any helpful advice whatsoever.

and DBB's final comment really proves the point that his beliefs on the fish tank size were more important to him than my original post about the filter not working.

DBB wrote:

It seems to me that helping the op with this enquiry was profoundly difficult given the completely inappropriate set-up they have, albeit with the blessing of the shop the fish came from.
Kinda like asking how many miles could one jog with their elderly, arthritic dog... How do you give good advice when the only answer is "don't"?
Anyway, this thread is done.
Thanks,
DBB

Furthermore the I believe forum charter rules (below) were broken by others in the thread and specifically DBB.

- Soapboxing will not be tolerated **
- Dragging threads off-topic, ....... will not be tolerated.
**Soapboxing : pushing an agenda that is not the sole concern/query of the OP. It also refers to any poster pushing the same agenda consistently/ spouting their beliefs over others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but no one wants it in their face all the time.
- Advocating cruelty to animals or humans will be harshly dealt with*
-Suggesting any method of killing any pet will result in a permanent ban from the forum. The ban will be issued without any warning given.

It is quite obvious from DBB's posts on the thread and lack of warnings to those who dragged the thread off topic, that he is happy with soapboxing on this matter, as the soapboxing in this instance falls under his beliefs. In fact, his last post on the thread is a quite clear cut case of Soapboxing.

I was cautioned for breaking the forum charter, and the joke I referred to above also earned me a caution in the past. However it appears DBB can cherry pick who he gives caution to.

Silverfish wrote:

Leave it unplugged then, they'll die quicker and be out of their misery sooner.

Now I know Silverfish didn't literally mean what he says here and nor do I feel he deserved to be cautioned for this post. But technically and according to the charter, he should have received a permanent ban. There is no difference to his comment here and the ones which have earned me cautions by DBB, but yet Silverfish doesn't even get his knuckles wrapped! Perhaps it is because there is some kind of friendship between Silverfish and DBB or because Silverfish is a moderator. Eitherway, if my posts were deemed necessary for caution, so should his be, so this is clearly another reason why I see DBB has singled me out.

Seve OB

Any update at all guys?

The Hill Billy

Looking at it this evening. Will get back to you tomorrow morning. Apologies for the delay.

Seve OB

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Looking at it this evening. Will get back to you tomorrow morning. Apologies for the delay.

Thank you

Seve OB

Anything yet?

The Hill Billy

Firstly, my sincerest apologies for the lengthy delay in responding to this. You have made some serious allegation about one of the moderators & matters like that aren’t taken lightly. Real life took over, & while I managed to pop in & out, I wanted to give this the time & attention that it deserved.

So, after reviewing the interactions between you & DBB – on-thread & via PM – I can say that I find no issue with DBB’s handling of this matter. DBB has been polite & courteous in their dealings with you. Also, I fail to see any evidence of their personal feelings (whatever they may be) influencing their moderation.

In relation to your request to clarify matters on-thread about the fish tank filter issue – I can understand why DBB refused this option given the name-calling, back-seat moderator & ignoring of mod instruction that took place. However, in an effort to put this matter to rest I will post the text as per your PM to DBB. However, I will not re-open the thread.

In future – please leave the modding to the mods & if you seek the advice of experts – be prepared to take it.

If the above is acceptable to you – let me know.

Seve OB

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Firstly, my sincerest apologies for the lengthy delay in responding to this. You have made some serious allegation about one of the moderators & matters like that aren’t taken lightly. Real life took over, & while I managed to pop in & out, I wanted to give this the time & attention that it deserved.

So, after reviewing the interactions between you & DBB – on-thread & via PM – I can say that I find no issue with DBB’s handling of this matter. DBB has been polite & courteous in their dealings with you. Also, I fail to see any evidence of their personal feelings (whatever they may be) influencing their moderation.

In relation to your request to clarify matters on-thread about the fish tank filter issue – I can understand why DBB refused this option given the name-calling, back-seat moderator & ignoring of mod instruction that took place. However, in an effort to put this matter to rest I will post the text as per your PM to DBB. However, I will not re-open the thread.

In future – please leave the modding to the mods & if you seek the advice of experts – be prepared to take it.

If the above is acceptable to you – let me know.

Thanks for the reply, and thanks for looking into the matter for me. I have no issues with the manner which DBB dealt with me. I do feel I was singled out and others posters on the thread should have been disciplined in line with my previous posts here, but I can get over that. I have no reason to disagree that DBB was polite and courteous, mind you, I was equally polite and courteous. In regard to DBB not re-opening the thread, I realised I had done wrong and PM'd DBB, who agreed I was remorseful and was going to open the thread, and this was after my bad behaviour on thread, so my behaviour on thread was actually not the reason why he wouldn't re-open it.

DBB wrote:

Hi Seve,
As I read your first paragraph, I thought that yes, given that you had seemed remorseful for your behaviour thus far, I would re-open the thread to give you the right of reply, on condition that you remain respectful and don't start any more arguments, as these seem to be areas where you're running into trouble on the forum and on boards.

However I do feel he has personal feelings in relation to me having a fish tank that is to small. And these feelings are quite obvious from his last post. I don't understand why he closed the thread as it went on for 2 pages after I was banned, discussing the size of fish tanks as opposed to the original questions regarding my broken filter, but that seemed ok in DBB's mind. He only closed it when someone offered advice in relation to my original question and who questioned others for not helping with my filter problem.

DBB wrote:

It seems to me that helping the op with this enquiry was profoundly difficult given the completely inappropriate set-up they have, albeit with the blessing of the shop the fish came from.
Kinda like asking how many miles could one jog with their elderly, arthritic dog... How do you give good advice when the only answer is "don't"?
Anyway, this thread is done.
Thanks,
DBB

I have learned on this thread that if I have an issue with a post, I should not back seat mod, and instead take it up via PM. This is exactly what I did with DBB. It is quite clear from his comment that DBB was more concerned with my fish tank size rather than my broken filter. The fact is, my set up was purchased legally and if DBB feels the set up is inappropriate, then that can only be his opinion. He has then closed the thread making his "opinion" the final say on the matter, thus abusing his moderator status. I simply asked DBB to review this post and edit it according to the facts of the matter.

Seve OB wrote:

Regarding your own post
I would like to point out that helping with me with my enquiry was not actually difficult at all as the enquiry was specifically about a filter and nothing at all to do with the set-up I have. The shop never gave me any blessing.

You comparison to jogging with an arthritic dog is nonsensical. Good advice relevant to the question I asked was actually given on thread and by pm, so it was very easy to do and I never answered "don't"

I would appreciate if you could review and edit your post.

Many thanks

Seve

I honestly don't understand his analogy to the arthritic dog, but a fairer analysis of the situation might have been along the lines if I asked someone why the engine didn't work in my car and the answer was along the lines of because I had to many passengers. Of course having to many passengers doesn't bode well, but it would be the reason for the engine not working.

I was not engaging in another argument. It was a simple request, away from public eyes via pm. A request which DBB didn't like, and this was the reason why he has refused to re-open the thread.

DBB wrote:

But then I continued reading, and saw that you're right back with your argumentative, inflammatory posting in a PM where you're asking me a favour?
This has not reassured me in any way that you're going to post with the civility and respect for other users that is demanded in this forum, and I am not going to re-open that thread as a result.

I take your point about leaving the modding to the mods, that is absolutely fair enough and I have learned my lesson here. If I seek advice, I will listen to what experts tell me, I always do and despite everything, I have learned a lot from what they have said on this thread. My only problem here, was they were not actually helping with my original question!

In summary, I still feel hard done by here. While I very much appreciate your offer to post on my behalf, I would much rather be able to post my own comment, rather than have you do it for me. After that, I don't mind if you close or leave the thread open, but I can tell you it will most definately be the last post I will make on it.

The Hill Billy

Hi Seve OB:

As mentioned, to satisfy your wish to clarify the situation - I will post the text as per your PM to DBB. The thread will not be reopened.

If you do not wish to take me up on this I will consider the matter closed.

All the best,

tHB

Seve OB

I don't really get how having you make a post on the bottom of the thread will clear things up for me.

the post should come from me, especially as they are my words and not yours.

The Hill Billy

And they would have been clearly marked as your words. Again, the thread will not be reopened.

Seve OB

What is the reason why the thread cannot be opened?

I really don't want you posting on my behalf. I understand you are going to say they are my words, but that is not the same.

Can the thread be deleted altogether? Or can my posts and any references to them on the thread be deleted?

Can I request an Admin review?

What happens to DBB? He has clearly allowed the forum charter to be broken by other posters as I have specified in my post above. You cannot disagree with that. Why is he still allowed to have the last word?

The Hill Billy

The thread will not be reopened as the mod team (not just DBB) discussed it & decided that it was best closed. It had run its course & there was no value in keeping it open. This is in line with the site guidelines...

Discretion of the Moderator

If you think these rules bind the moderators hands, think again. The moderators have discretion to react and moderate as they see fit, in the best interests of the forum they take care of. You can challenge a decision using the Dispute Resolution Process, but don’t think for a moment you can use the guidelines above to find some semantic loophole to excuse your behaviour (people who do this are known as “rules lawyers” and are seen as a small step above trolls). It’s not going to work. The spirit of the law is more important than the wording of the law on boards.ie and our guidelines can and will change if and when there’s need.

Nothing happens to DBB. As I stated above - "I find no issue with DBB’s handling of this matter."

I have requested an Admin review for you.

Seve OB

Thanks Hill Billy. I appreciate your input.

For what it's worth, as I was the one who started the thread, I don't feel that it has run its course. In the 3 weeks since I have started this thread to get this far there have been numerous developments with my tank, fish and filter, all which I would most likely have posted about.

You have noticed I have stayed well away from that forum till this has been resolved as I felt if I was to post anything about those developments, (which really do belong on the original thread) on a new thread I might face the wrath of DBB again. I am not in it to cause trouble, so have stayed away till this gets resolved.

I await Admin response thanks

Seve OB

Any update?

Spear

I've given the admins a nudge to get a response.

Seve OB

Spear wrote: »

I've given the admins a nudge to get a response.

Thank you

BuffyBot

I'm finding it hard to find a flaw in the decision that's been made.


Your dislike of the outcome itself is not enough for me to over-rule it. You may not feel something is fair, but when you're looking at it from the POV of someone involved, that viewpoint is already skewed by it's nature.

As such, I'm closing this off.