What will happen when the sheriff comes to my home?

Bumbler

Hi all,

I am repaying a Revenue Commissioners liability that was passed onto the Sheriffs office for collection. My business, not limited, has ceased trading. Revenue forwarded my file to the Sheriff because I could not offer them a down payment.

In fairness, the Sheriffs office have been as accommodating as possible but they still require a lump sum which is due for payment. I honestly do not have the lump repayment and can produce bank statements to prove so.

I am paying my debt which is approximately 15k. I am no tax dodger but I simply cannot pay each month plus regular lump sum repayments

I have no car or any unencumbered assets. I have a wide screen TV that is approximately 6 years old, decent fridge freezer but nothing else with value.

I repay the sheriff approx. €600 per month but they require more as the debt needs to be repaid in 10 months? Is this correct?

I should also mention that I rent a room - is my tenants property safe?

Simon2015

You should get your self a good guard dog.

Pataman

They are just trying to bully you. You are paying to the best of your ability. DONT be intimidated by them. You are paying and will continue to do so until the debt is paid in full. There is absolutely no time limit on the debt.
Your tenants property is safe.

screamer

They come to your house and seize assets, to recoup the amount outstanding. I find it strange though, that you are making payments yet the sheriff's office is called in. I'd seek legal advise if I were you.

Fred Swanson

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Bumbler

Thanks very much for your responses.

Just to clarify I made a formal complaint to the Revenue Commissioners about my case being passed to the Sheriff. I never received a response.

When I received the warrant from the Sheriffs Office I contacted them immediately. The person I spoke with informed me they had 10 months to collect the debt and if the debt could not be cleared within that time frame they were to send it back to the Revenue. My instinct told me something wasn't right so I done some searches online and came up with very little hence my thread on here.

The Sheriffs Office had a no nonsense approach from day one. I offered them €600.00 per month but was turned down as they wanted €800.00. I foolishly agreed (fear of the sheriff). Not long into the repayments and I realized it was impossible to repay €800.00 per month. I called them up again and said €600.00 was all I could pay; they agreed; of course they were in agreement on one condition I could repay lump sums along with the few hundred euro per month - again to meet the 10 month time frame.

I asked for this to be put in writing but got no response.

Bumbler

Pataman wrote: »

They are just trying to bully you. You are paying to the best of your ability. DONT be intimidated by them. You are paying and will continue to do so until the debt is paid in full. There is absolutely no time limit on the debt.
Your tenants property is safe.

Hi Pataman,

Let's say for example it takes me 3 years to clear the debt. Will the Sheriffs Office be the ones to collect this debt over the 3 year duration?

Pataman

Bumbler wrote: »

Hi Pataman,

Let's say for example it takes me 3 years to clear the debt. Will the Sheriffs Office be the ones to collect this debt over the 3 year duration?

Yes. Once its passed to the sheriff and you are making regular payments, it will stay with them.

Bumbler

Thank you.

I'm not acting the idiot or looking for a sympathy vote but I'm genuinely shocked by the approach taken by the sheriffs office i.e. the fabrication regarding a time-frame on the repayment of the debt. I've gone into mortgage arrears because I've being servicing the Revenue liability well above my means.

As I have nothing to hide should I contact the sheriffs office again and inform them I simply do not have the money over the time-frame they are looking for and if they have to do their worst then so be it? Let's put the ball back in their corner.

I've never dealt with these people before so I've been very green around the ears. The information on this thread has been an eye opener.

As a by the way I do not have any formal income save for the rent a room. Since business folded I have not managed to find employment. I am simply surviving on handouts from a friend (who is unaware I am giving the money they give me for necessities to the sheriff).

Fred Swanson

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screamer

Here this info might help: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/enforcement_of_judgments.html

Fred Swanson

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Bumbler

Excellent advise on this thread and certainly a weight off my mind; thank you.

Out of interest; in my case where a demand (verbal) was made to clear the debt within 10 months - is such a demand dictated to by the Revenue to the Sheriff i.e. civil servant says to Sheriff office push for this debt to be repaid in x amount of months or is it simply the Sheriffs office putting their own time scale on the repayment of the debt?

Also if I am not at home and they call will forceful entry be used?

I will be informing them on Tuesday that their lump sum demands plus monthly repayments cannot be met but I will continue to repay €600.00 per month until the debt is cleared in full. Will also be mentioning that they need to come out to my home and see for themselves that I have nothing.

Fred Swanson

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Bumbler

Hi Fred,

All payments are sent to the sheriff.

I am to have no more dealings with Revenue - Sheriff only.

Fred Swanson

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Bumbler

Thanks Fred.

The pressure I have been under has been immense to the point of becoming physically ill. The only relief I have received of late is the answers on this thread.

I made a formal complaint to the Revenue Commissioners over the treatment but my complaint went unanswered.

The accountant I was dealing with at that time did not want to know either. Ironic considering they made it clear, off the record, that they did not agree with the treatment I was receiving and believed the Revenue were incorrect in the handling of my case at the beginning.

I have already paid a small fortune on sheriff fees and interest on the liability.

It is also interesting to note that I have made contact with a recognized insolvency body who agree that I have nothing of value. They wrote a letter which was forwarded to the sheriff and revenue but this was also ignored save for a one line response from Revenue saying something on the lines of - - we will deal with this letter when you decide to go insolvent.

sabat

If they do come and touch your tenant's belongings call the gardaí and tell them your house is being burgled.

Bumbler

Haha that's a good one Sabat. Could you imagine their faces

Oh yes, another interesting fact - when the warrant was initially issued by the sheriff it was sent to the wrong address. I informed them I was not trading at that address. I was obliged to inform them because they would have began pestering the the business that currently resides there.

The address the warrant was sent to was an address I was previously affiliated too business wise. Funnily enough a new warrant was not issued with the correct address.

This simply caused huge embarrassment as the warrant was mistakenly opened by the new tenants.

Bumbler

The sheriffs office is playing hardball. My case has been handed to their seizures department. They obviously believe I have something worth seizing. I'm very disheartened considering what I am repaying them each month.

Being Irish and concerned what the neighbors think - do they arrive in a signed/marked van?

Fred Swanson

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endacl

Word of warning, op. Just in case. If anybody comes along and starts with the freeman ballcocks, either here or in real life, send them packing. You're digging yourself out of a hole. They'll only help you dig in the wrong direction.

Best of luck with it.

Bumbler

Hi Fred, you've been very helpful and knowledgeable thank you. Another desk, eh. I was convinced they would be out to me within the next 24hrs. I am going to continue to repay the debt via their office. What should I expect via their seizures department?

Hi Endaci, I hear you on that one. I've seen (from a distance) similar organisations causing a fracas during a home repossession. It's not something I'd like to see again. The less hype the better!

Fred Swanson

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faceman

Not sure how the Revenue's sheriff works but with regular sheriff seizures generally they are only looking for things of value that can be resold. Where there is a grey area on ownership or indeed joint ownership they won't touch it. Stuff like TV's, sofas etc, they won't touch unless it's worth significant value.

Its going to be tough for you but keep the chin up. Hope you pull through.

Bumbler

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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No indication whatsoever. I previously informed them I am no longer in business, have no income etc. They are aware of all of this but continue to pursue a perceived objective to have debt cleared in 10 months.

Thanks Faceman. Definitely not for the faint hearted!

Bumbler

Thanks Faceman.

The latest on this long running saga - my liability is firmly in the hands of their seizure/bailiff team. I grew a backbone and asked them to put in writing that there is a ten month deadline on the repayment of the debt; I got no response. I also asked for receipts for the regular repayments that I am making but was informed they did not issue receipts for payments received! I do believe the money is being offset but surely proof would be nice.

As time goes on I am getting more annoyed. Yes, I owe money but I am paying and will continue to do so.

Am I wasting time making a formal complaint?

I previously complained to the revenue commissioners about their heavy handed approach but never received a reply. Surely in a democracy they are answerable to somebody?

Fred Swanson

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Bumbler

Thanks Fred. I'll go about that today and will update as soon as I hear back.

Regarding sheriff not issuing receipts - what are your thoughts on that?

Fred Swanson

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Bumbler

Since my last post I have been informed by the sheriff's office that my case was not sent to the seizures department at that time and could I send them a few thousand euro off the debt or they will be definitely sending out their seizures team! You couldn't make this up . . .

I've told them to send their seizures team out as this will be evidence I have nothing.

I continue to pay €600 per month put it ain't good enough.

No receipts from them seem to be forthcoming.

Fred Swanson

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Bumbler

Hi Fred,

Yes correspondence was forwarded to the revenue and I was directed directly to my case manager who blatantly did not answer my correspondence. I also asked for them to take my liability back from the sheriff to allow me pay them directly as the sheriffs costs were creating further financial hardship for me.

I am weary at this stage dealing with it but I wish the sheriff would hurry up and send the goons out as sitting on edge is not doing my health any favors. Every time the door bell rings I'm on edge:o

Mr. Incognito

1. Prepare an Affidavit of Means. There are online forms for this. Include a cover letter that sets out items in your home and who owns them. I would suggest that they belong to your partner or a relative on loan.

2. Make a freedom of information request from the Revenue and the Sheriffs office

3. Make a formal complaint. Outline the person who informed you that you had a ten month deadline. Include a doctors letter outlining the stress and strain. Send it by registered post. Scan it and Email it and CC all the local councellors and TDs in your constituency.

4. Consider paying nothing. If you have no assets, there is nothing to seize. There is no much they can do if you refuse to pay.

El Tarangu

I don't have any useful information to add to this thread, I'm afraid, but just wanted to wish you the best of luck, Bumbler. You're going through tough times at the moment, but in 12 months, six months things will surely be better. Just try to get through this sticky patch and look forward to better times ahead.

antoinolachtnai

Have you spoken to an insolvency practitioner?

All the advice above is perfectly fine but it won't get you anywhere. Mo matter what the result of your enquiries or complaint he revenue are still owed the money and are duty bound to collect it. No amount of legal wrangling will change that fundamental fact.

The sheriff and the Revenue are just following the procedure. Your debt is just going to keep getting bigger (with fees and interest) until you sort it out.

It sounds like you are insolvent as a result of the business's failure and that this is the core problem you need to deal with. The insolvency process provides a way to do this and should give you some protection to let you do a deal with creditors.

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. I hope you can get good advice that will get you back on the road.

SEPT 23 1989

Take a step back here you are no criminal you did not murder anyone

15k is shag all in the big scheme of things

All payments to the sheriff are issued with receipts

No goons will arrive,he will arrive and see how you are living and what stuff you have be civil and you will get the same in return,if you have nothing of value nothing will be taken

Keep paying the 600.00 if you can(dont starve yourself and have no life) if it goes to court the judge will see you made a big effort to clear the debt

best of luck

Fred Swanson

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SEPT 23 1989

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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if the sheriff has nothing to seize is the next step not court?

Fred Swanson

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SEPT 23 1989

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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so no goods can be seized then what?

carman2011

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

so no goods can be seized then what?

nothing basically, they will just keep trying, and interest will keep building up, but if you dont get any means and cant pay, basically nothing will happen

Squatter

Bumbler wrote: »

Hi Fred,

Yes correspondence was forwarded to the revenue and I was directed directly to my case manager who blatantly did not answer my correspondence. I also asked for them to take my liability back from the sheriff to allow me pay them directly as the sheriffs costs were creating further financial hardship for me.

Hi - are you sure that you followed the procedures set out in Revenue's Complaints Leaflet CS4? If so, then it looks as though it's time to request an External Review.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/custservice/cs4.pdf

Bumbler

As mentioned by Fred - a law onto themselves and I can most certainly vouch for this. No receipts, bully boy tactics by office staff, lengthy time-frame to respond to my questions, fabricated time frames as to when the debt should be cleared and no receipts issued.

If this was some run of the mill debt collection company it would be all over the media.

Hi squatter, yes a local complaint was made but no answer was received. On foot of this I followed on with an email as they could not say they didn't receive that. I got a simple response saying deal directly with the sheriff.

They are obviously under the illusion I am hiding something.

martinr5232

Put all corispondance in writing and send it by registered post.

SEPT 23 1989

Bumbler wrote: »

As mentioned by Fred - a law onto themselves and I can most certainly vouch for this. No receipts, bully boy tactics by office staff, lengthy time-frame to respond to my questions, fabricated time frames as to when the debt should be cleared and no receipts issued.

If this was some run of the mill debt collection company it would be all over the media.

Hi squatter, yes a local complaint was made but no answer was received. On foot of this I followed on with an email as they could not say they didn't receive that. I got a simple response saying deal directly with the sheriff.

They are obviously under the illusion I am hiding something.

is this in Dublin?

Bumbler

Yes, Sept.

Squatter

Bumbler wrote: »

Hi squatter, yes a local complaint was made but no answer was received. On foot of this I followed on with an email as they could not say they didn't receive that. I got a simple response saying deal directly with the sheriff.

They are obviously under the illusion I am hiding something.

Reply and tell them that you're not satisfied with that response and that you're going to seek an external review of your case as you believe that you have been treated appallingly.

Be sure to send a cc of your email to the Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners [Niall{dot}Cody{at}revenue{dot}ie] and ask him if he is happy to stand over the way that his staff have treated you.

Teaandcoffee

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Have you spoken to an insolvency practitioner?

All the advice above is perfectly fine but it won't get you anywhere. Mo matter what the result of your enquiries or complaint he revenue are still owed the money and are duty bound to collect it. No amount of legal wrangling will change that fundamental fact.

The sheriff and the Revenue are just following the procedure. Your debt is just going to keep getting bigger (with fees and interest) until you sort it out.

It sounds like you are insolvent as a result of the business's failure and that this is the core problem you need to deal with. The insolvency process provides a way to do this and should give you some protection to let you do a deal with creditors.

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. I hope you can get good advice that will get you back on the road.

You are correct the liability is still owed and sheriff and Revenue are following procedure but whilst following procedure they must be reminded they are not beyond the laws of the land. I've had dealings with the Revenue and sheriff and it is by know means an easy feat.

antoinolachtnai

Unfortunately it is the OP that is beyond the laws of the land. When the OP breaks the law (by operating a business and not paying tax in full) the Sheriff and the Revenue have wide discretion.

The OP can complain about his treatment at the hands of the Revenue all he likes but he will still owe the same amount of money. In fact, the amount of money may even increase every month as sheriff's charges and interest charges accrue.

If the OP really believes that something significantly unlawful is being done in their case, i,e that the Sheriff should not have been instructed, they need to go to Court. He is not going to get any satisfaction from the Revenue complaints procedure or anybody else. The complaints procedure specifically excludes a situation where enforcement action has begun. No amount of registered letters or photocopying is going to change this.

The OP is, or appears to be, insolvent. The OP needs to move forward on that basis and get the advice of an insolvency practitioner. The practitioner will consider the matter and if appropriate get a protective certificate and send this to the Sheriff, the Revenue and to the bank holding the mortgage. The Sheriff will then go away.

Bumbler

Hi Guys,

Since my last post I've continued to make huge inroads on my debt. I imagine there are others out there who are in a similar situation so just to update you on the latest happenings since my last post:

I invited the sheriff out to my home to prove I had nothing. I informed them if they came or not I would still continue to pay down my debt. He/she so far has not arrived.

I made numerous complaints to the tax office - all went ignored apart from one which was responded to by a very helpful civil servant who made sure it got into the hands of the right department - finally a result!

Disappointingly, sometime after I still hadn't heard anything so I contacted the civil servant to ask for an update and guess what they had landed the complaint right into the hands of the civil servant who initially transferred my case to the sheriff!

As mentioned - still no word from the sheriff or as a matter of fact no statements or receipts. From my regular visits to ROS i notice long delays in my repayments being offset against the debt. This is frustrating when you are regularly making payments and don't see instant results.

I'm not the same person who started this thread - what I mean by that is I know longer feel like a criminal; I'm simply an individual who failed in business. I presume I wont be the last.