Personal loans to friend and death

StopWatch

A real conundrum here - An Uncle passed away a while ago, his estate has been settled, but as we have much of his paperwork, back statements etc, something a bit odd has become apparent to me looking through it,
he clearly lent €30,000 to a friend, (we have the cheque stub) about 2 days later we can see from the Statements that this man starts paying €100 a week into his account, for the next year or so up to his death, then, clearly nothing was said after the death.
I've only the proof of what is on the statements, and it's clear to me that this man still owed him €23,000 or so.
Where does this stand legally? There's no paperwork bar what can be seen from statements, but there was no paperwork, it was a loan between "friends"

seamus

The debt still exists without any formal paperwork and it becomes an asset of the deceased's estate.

The solicitor handling the matter can advise the best way forward.

lifeandtimes

seamus wrote: »

The debt still exists without any formal paperwork and it becomes an asset of the deceased's estate.

The solicitor handling the matter can advise the best way forward.

But there is no documentation to confirm this was a loan....For all we know it was a gift and then the person whi recieved the gift then made weekly payments in return as a thank you without the original person knowing ...I'm just saying this all for arguments sake

StopWatch

lifeandtimes wrote: »

But there is no documentation to confirm this was a loan....For all we know it was a gift and then the person whi recieved the gift then made weekly payments in return as a thank you without the original person knowing ...I'm just saying this all for arguments sake

This is, of course, my issue, all signs point towards it being a loan , but I cannot prove this, but it is so large a sum of money, it certainly would never have been a gift.
As we know this person, still, its come as something of a shock to realise. This is an awkward situation, but I can't allow it to go unchecked or unchallenged.
I'll talk to the solicitor who dealt with the estate 1st, but I am wondering if we've any legal standing at all to begin with.

Atlantic Dawn

It could be possible that the person has a standing order in place and assumes that the money is still going in. When someone dies the account is frozen and can no longer accept payments. Have you chatted to the friend to see what they say?

StopWatch

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It could be possible that the person has a standing order in place and assumes that the money is still going in. When someone dies the account is frozen and can no longer accept payments. Have you chatted to the friend to see what they say?

Not as of yet, it's very difficult to imagine how that's going to pan out, no matter what way you look at it, i'm about to tell him i think he owes us €23,000
That's not an easy conversation to have.

professore

How do you know that they didn't agree that on his death the loan was written off? I suspect it's a hard one to prove without documentation.

StopWatch

professore wrote: »

How do you know that they didn't agree that on his death the loan was written off? I suspect it's a hard one to prove without documentation.

I don't, but considering that my uncle didn't have a huge amount to leave, it would seem very, very unlikely that he would forego such a large sum,
but yes, all of this is very hard to prove.

Mr. Incognito

I believe the Staute is two years from the date of death for the estate to call in the debt

Peregrinus

Worth pointing out that the executor has a duty to follow this up. He can't just abandon a claim the estate may have because it would be embarrassing to raise it with the putative debtor.

MrPudding

This is never going to be an easy conversation, why don't you try something like this "You are probably wondering why you loan repayments are being returned. This is normal as they freeze a person's bank account when they die. I can give you the new details so you can continue the payments to the estate."

It is never going to be an easy conversation, but I think doing it that way is about as non-confrontational as you can get, and give the debtor a way to avoid embarrassment. Also, it ,Igbo get an admission of the loan out of him, which would be helpful, I guess.

MrP

mdebets

Just out of curiosity. Who would have the burden of proof in a case like this?
Does the estate has to prove that it was a loan or would the recipient has to prove that it wasn't? And if it wasn't (or the agreement was that the repayments stopped in case of death, would it have implications for tax for the recipient?

CIARAN_BOYLE

mdebets wrote: »

And if it wasn't (or the agreement was that the repayments stopped in case of death, would it have implications for tax for the recipient?

Yes

Victor

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It could be possible that the person has a standing order in place and assumes that the money is still going in. When someone dies the account is frozen and can no longer accept payments. Have you chatted to the friend to see what they say?

As I understand it, a frozen account can still accept money, but money can only be withdrawn in specific circumstances.