Bulk milk tank: Tams 2 grant or second hand?

WexTK

Hi all,

getting tight on space this year with existing milk tank (3k litres) and was looking to replace it with maybe 4.5k litre tank.

Obviously there's the TAMs 2 open at the moment but am I correct in saying they'll only pay the grant if the tank is purchased new.....? I've heard there could be a good deal found in a tradein for a second hand tank - therefore forgoing the grant (which would be 60% in my case).... Any advice from others that have or are thinking of changing their tank?

Regards WexTK

Timmaay

WexTK wrote: »

Hi all,

getting tight on space this year with existing milk tank (3k litres) and was looking to replace it with maybe 4.5k litre tank.

Obviously there's the TAMs 2 open at the moment but am I correct in saying they'll only pay the grant if the tank is purchased new.....? I've heard there could be a good deal found in a tradein for a second hand tank - therefore forgoing the grant (which would be 60% in my case).... Any advice from others that have or are thinking of changing their tank?

Regards WexTK

That's actually the size tank that quite a few lads in around the 100+ herd size would be replacing at the second with a much larger tank, so I'd say you'd have a decent change of picking up sometime clean 2nd hand for reasonable money. That's not to say new doesn't make better sense. In my case, I wanted a tank at the very least 7kl, I looked around 2nd hand and new, did out plenty of back of the envelope figures, and in the end it was a no brainer for me to go with a new 11k tank and get the 40% tams1 grant back on it. After the grant I'll have only paid about 2k more than any sort of 2nd hand 7kl tank, for a small few quid extra I've a lot more storage space, so totally future proof, and got a brand new tank with a decent guarantee etc. The major downside is the cash tied up till the grant is back.

blackdog1

WexTK wrote: »

Hi all,

getting tight on space this year with existing milk tank (3k litres) and was looking to replace it with maybe 4.5k litre tank.

Obviously there's the TAMs 2 open at the moment but am I correct in saying they'll only pay the grant if the tank is purchased new.....? I've heard there could be a good deal found in a tradein for a second hand tank - therefore forgoing the grant (which would be 60% in my case).... Any advice from others that have or are thinking of changing their tank?

Regards WexTK

Depends if your getting a 60 or 40% grant. For bigger tanks I'd say tams but for a 4.5k you will pick one up for 3.5 to 4.5 k easy I'd say

Sam Kade

I bought a secondhand 3.5k tank cost €2300 for tank and installation.

whelan2

just be careful if going second hand i think its hard to get gas for some of the older tanks now

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

just be careful if going second hand i think its hard to get gas for some of the older tanks now

I'd be very slow to get a 2nd hand tank without a new or fully reconditioned compressor. If it fails just once with 4500l of milk that's 1350euro down the drain, further to this the majority of older compressors will have air cooling fins in poor enough condition, resulting in a much lower efficency, longer cooling times, and much more electricity used. It's a real false economy trying to skimp on the compressor 2bh. I've worked out my new tank will pay for itself after about 5 or 6years on reduced electricity use, not to mind counting any possible dumped milk, or fines for poor milk if I'd cheaped out and got a tank that gave trouble.

mf240

Theyll give you a price for the second hand one installed with a new compressor.

Get a few prices and crunch the numbers.

Be prepared to haggle hard for the second hand ones. They wont be too busy this year.

I bought mine in 09 and it was fair easy talk to them.

Greengrass1

mf240 wrote: »

Theyll give you a price for the second hand one installed with a new compressor.

Get a few prices and crunch the numbers.

Be prepared to haggle hard for the second hand ones. They wont be too busy this year.

I bought mine in 09 and it was fair easy talk to them.

I know where there is a 7kl tank bought in 09 perfect tank farmer out grew it if OP is interested
Should be easy enough pick up likes of a 5kl tank

Sam Kade

Timmaay wrote: »

I'd be very slow to get a 2nd hand tank without a new or fully reconditioned compressor. If it fails just once with 4500l of milk that's 1350euro down the drain, further to this the majority of older compressors will have air cooling fins in poor enough condition, resulting in a much lower efficency, longer cooling times, and much more electricity used. It's a real false economy trying to skimp on the compressor 2bh. I've worked out my new tank will pay for itself after about 5 or 6years on reduced electricity use, not to mind counting any possible dumped milk, or fines for poor milk if I'd cheaped out and got a tank that gave trouble.

The tank I bought is 25 years old and compressor is 15 years old, no problems so far It cools milk almost instantly, cooled when milking is finished or shortly after. It's also light on electricity.

Freejin

WexTK wrote: »

Hi all,

getting tight on space this year with existing milk tank (3k litres) and was looking to replace it with maybe 4.5k litre tank.

Obviously there's the TAMs 2 open at the moment but am I correct in saying they'll only pay the grant if the tank is purchased new.....? I've heard there could be a good deal found in a tradein for a second hand tank - therefore forgoing the grant (which would be 60% in my case).... Any advice from others that have or are thinking of changing their tank?

Regards WexTK

In a similar boat here probably looking to upgrade to 6500 to 7000l litre. One salesman was trying to persuade us that the grants were making second hand tanks expensive....couldn't really follow his logic on that.

Just on the grant, supposing you get your application in for the first closing date (18th September), how long before you get approval. We really need a new tank next year, ideally we would put it in during the dry period in January ( we could get away with the old tank until early April if needs be), however if we don't get grant approval until after that, we may consider the second hand route.

Timmaay

Freejin wrote: »

In a similar boat here probably looking to upgrade to 6500 to 7000l litre. One salesman was trying to persuade us that the grants were making second hand tanks expensive....couldn't really follow his logic on that.

Just on the grant, supposing you get your application in for the first closing date (18th September), how long before you get approval. We really need a new tank next year, ideally we would put it in during the dry period in January ( we could get away with the old tank until early April if needs be), however if we don't get grant approval until after that, we may consider the second hand route.

I'd fire in the application, and maybe a week or 2 later once they have the application start plaguing them with phonecalls telling them you need the grand approved ASAP, they are able to fasttrack your application but need a bit of pressure ha. I was under pressure with the TAMS 1, managed to get my application fast tracked by a month or so.

simx

Sam Kade wrote: »

I bought a secondhand 3.5k tank cost €2300 for tank and installation.

Bought a secondhand 3.5k tank myself recently, gave €3500 for it including installation and a new compressor, could of got another one a cheaper but this one was a tidy size and suited the dairy without building on

Sam Kade

simx wrote: »

Bought a secondhand 3.5k tank myself recently, gave €3500 for it including installation and a new compressor, could of got another one a cheaper but this one was a tidy size and suited the dairy without building on

Is it a dx tank?

howdee

Got a new tank the start of this year, priced up the Grant and priced up a second-hand tank. Ended up getting a 5500 litre Alfa Laval tank (07) with a new compressor and washer for 9500 plus vat.
the same size tank new was over 20000 as far as I remember and would have a 9 to 12 month wait and would have had to get planning permission because half it was going outside.

simx

Sam Kade wrote: »

Is it a dx tank?

Yes

PN14

Wondering same think WexTx

Looking at upgrading to a 4.5 / 5k tank & compressor. Existing old gas compressor is on the way out and has to be replaced either way and may as well upgrade the tank while we're at it. The existing is at full capacity on a 2 day collection.

I don't see the value some of the lads have quoted here for second hand tanks. Haven't done much legwork yet but only quote so far would make a new tank cheaper with the grant than a 2nd hand tank.

What are the recognised best tanks out there.

Sam Kade

PN14 wrote: »

Wondering same think WexTx

Looking at upgrading to a 4.5 / 5k tank & compressor. Existing old gas compressor is on the way out and has to be replaced either way and may as well upgrade the tank while we're at it. The existing is at full capacity on a 2 day collection.

I don't see the value some of the lads have quoted here for second hand tanks. Haven't done much legwork yet but only quote so far would make a new tank cheaper with the grant than a 2nd hand tank.

What are the recognised best tanks out there.

I bought my secondhand tank private but I know the man that was servicing it and he recommended it. If I were to buy the same tank off a dealer it would have cost 7k I got it for €2300 all in.

WexTK

Freejin wrote: »

Just on the grant, supposing you get your application in for the first closing date (18th September), how long before you get approval. We really need a new tank next year, ideally we would put it in during the dry period in January ( we could get away with the old tank until early April if needs be), however if we don't get grant approval until after that, we may consider the second hand route.

Well I too was looking to get the new tank in during the dry period in late Dec/Jan (what other time to be honest?!)
I'll qualify for the young farmers grant (60%). These three month grant "tranches" they call them ... For a young farmer the first tranche closes the end of August. If I am looking for the grant but don't expect to install the tank until January is there any benefit in rushing to get an application in before the first tranche closes for me at end of August or would it make little difference waiting until later in the Autumn?

First time applying for such grants so any advice welcomed.

Timmaay

WexTK wrote: »

Well I too was looking to get the new tank in during the dry period in late Dec/Jan (what other time to be honest?!)
I'll qualify for the young farmers grant (60%). These three month grant "tranches" they call them ... For a young farmer the first tranche closes the end of August. If I am looking for the grant but don't expect to install the tank until January is there any benefit in rushing to get an application in before the first tranche closes for me at end of August or would it make little difference waiting until later in the Autumn?

First time applying for such grants so any advice welcomed.

A bulk tank can be swapped over no problem during milkings. We are in winter milk so it didn't actually matter when we did it. Didn't get to milk till 8pm that evening, but that's a minor inconvenience in the grand scale of things ha.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

A bulk tank can be swapped over no problem during milkings. We are in winter milk so it didn't actually matter when we did it. Didn't get to milk till 8pm that evening, but that's a minor inconvenience in the grand scale of things ha.

ye same here , got milkman to come after morning milking. Lads arrived around 9 and disconnected old tanks, everything was in place and ready to go around half 4.

Milked out

whelan2 wrote: »

ye same here , got milkman to come after morning milking. Lads arrived around 9 and disconnected old tanks, everything was in place and ready to go around half 4.

Ours going in in the next month but will be taking off the roof to swop over, they'll have the compressor in place first so hope to have tank goino that day. Only Issue is floot of dairy was hoping to re do it.

stanflt

I'll be going for a 20k litre vertical tank and selling my two smaller 5k and 3,5k privately

The joys of a treble partnership

whelan2

Milked out wrote: »

Ours going in in the next month but will be taking off the roof to swop over, they'll have the compressor in place first so hope to have tank goino that day. Only Issue is floot of dairy was hoping to re do it.

the floor in mine wouldnt be great either. They did comment on it when inspecting for grant but said it would do

Milked out

stanflt wrote: »

I'll be going for a 20k litre vertical tank and selling my two smaller 5k and 3,5k privately

The joys of a treble partnership

Outdoor tank Stan? Putting in 14.5k here bit was told id need planning for an outdoor tank. Grant works well with partnerships ahrite id say

Milked out

whelan2 wrote: »

the floor in mine wouldnt be great either. They did comment on it when inspecting for grant but said it would do

Was thinking of putting legs of tank on small concrete stands and could do floor around it then. Or else get temp tank outside and do floor but time is tight with grant

Sam Kade

Milked out wrote: »

Was thinking of putting legs of tank on small concrete stands and could do floor around it then. Or else get temp tank outside and do floor but time is tight with grant

How would you screed it? The only way is to do it with the tank out.

RightTurnClyde

Milked out wrote: »

Outdoor tank Stan? Putting in 14.5k here bit was told id need planning for an outdoor tank. Grant works well with partnerships ahrite id say

It was 5 yrs ago but i got the grant on an outdoor tank, no PP needed that time. Can't see why you'd need PP on an outdoor tank, it's only standing on a slab of concrete.

Timmaay

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

It was 5 yrs ago but i got the grant on an outdoor tank, no PP needed that time. Can't see why you'd need PP on an outdoor tank, it's only standing on a slab of concrete.

Required of the grant.

cute geoge

simx wrote: »

Bought a secondhand 3.5k tank myself recently, gave €3500 for it including installation and a new compressor, could of got another one a cheaper but this one was a tidy size and suited the dairy without building on

That seem good value ,what size compressor and what type of tank is that
I got quoted €3000+ vat for a new 5 hp copeland compressor

Greengrass1

Milked out wrote: »

Was thinking of putting legs of tank on small concrete stands and could do floor around it then. Or else get temp tank outside and do floor but time is tight with grant

Friend put his old tank up on blocks to redo floor. Did a right job. Just fill in where the blocks were the day the new one arrives

simx

cute geoge wrote: »

That seem good value ,what size compressor and what type of tank is that
I got quoted €3000+ vat for a new 5 hp copeland compressor

Nearly sure it's a 5hp compressor also, mueller, 6 months warranty

WexTK

Thanks for all your comments here lads.

Okay so you intend on going ahead and getting a new tank under the grant - the next steps?

Get a price from tank salespeople and make a Tams application straightaway? Secure the grant before pressing ahead with the tank?
Will they only pay the grant once you've actually acquired the tank with your own cash?

Thanks all.

whelan2

WexTK wrote: »

Thanks for all your comments here lads.

Okay so you intend on going ahead and getting a new tank under the grant - the next steps?

Get a price from tank salespeople and make a Tams application straightaway? Secure the grant before pressing ahead with the tank?
Will they only pay the grant once you've actually acquired the tank with your own cash?

Thanks all.

yes you have to pay full price then you can get vat back and the grant. If you have to look for finance to help towards the cost this can take a while too

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

yes you have to pay full price then you can get vat back and the grant. If you have to look for finance to help towards the cost this can take a while too

And one mistake I made, I put in the one application for the tank and milking parlour. The tank went in last year and I'm only getting the grant for the whole lot sorted now, it's resulted in the full price of the tank locked up for over a year now. Any future grants I'll be doing step by step to help cash flow, and individual grants for each.

Henwin

Timmaay wrote: »

And one mistake I made, I put in the one application for the tank and milking parlour. The tank went in last year and I'm only getting the grant for the whole lot sorted now, it's resulted in the full price of the tank locked up for over a year now. Any future grants I'll be doing step by step to help cash flow, and individual grants for each.

Just a few questions on ur grant. I was going to apply online for my husband for a new milk tank but it looks more complicated than I thought. Do you need to do a farm safety course with teagasc, do you need a detailed farm map?
He has his own herd number but the farm is still in his dad's name and I think they need proof of ownership.
Maybe we be better off getting teagasc to submit the grant application