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Staff giving away free food

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  • 19-07-2015 10:12pm
    #1
    paska
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭


    I have a staff member giving free coffee to his friend and not putting it through the til. i also have the same man on video making food for himself and taking it into the back kitchen to eat it.

    I need to fire this person because it's not just once it's almost every shift. What is my next step? does anyone have a link to help me with the disciplinary procedure for how to tell the person about the first step to the potential outcome


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    #2
    Into The Blue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Into The Blue


    paska wrote: »
    I have a staff member giving free coffee to his friend and not putting it through the til. i also have the same man on video making food for himself and taking it into the back kitchen to eat it.

    I need to fire this person because it's not just once it's almost every shift. What is my next step? does anyone have a link to help me with the disciplinary procedure for how to tell the person about the first step to the potential outcome

    Just a warning will do


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    #3
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    paska wrote: »
    I have a staff member giving free coffee to his friend and not putting it through the til. i also have the same man on video making food for himself and taking it into the back kitchen to eat it.

    I need to fire this person because it's not just once it's almost every shift. What is my next step? does anyone have a link to help me with the disciplinary procedure for how to tell the person about the first step to the potential outcome

    issue an invoice for the food/coffee


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    #4
    NicoleW85
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭NicoleW85


    You need to give 2 verbal warnings and 1 written warning AFAIK. 4th grievance = show him the door!


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    #5
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    OP, you have to be clear to the employee that the CCTV is for purposes of security and not for monitoring staff. In reviewing the footage you came across this situation and you want it to stop, or else the employee can make it difficult for you under the Data Protection Act.


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    #6
    Laoislion8383
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Laoislion8383


    You can't tell him u were using the CCTV to watch staff like somebody has already said, but what he has being doing is stealing and therefore you can sack him on the spot without the two verbal and written warning because stealing is classed as gross misconduct.


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    #7
    NicoleW85
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭NicoleW85


    Sorry to hijack this post, but it jogged my memory on an issue a friend had recently with his employee. This guy is a delivery driver and handles money from customers (obviously at one stage he proved he could be trusted), then returns money to the office for banking. Last week he took €100 from the money he collected as an advance on his wages and when he got to the office he informed my friend he had done this and that he would pay it back. What disciplinary procedures would that behaviour require? Thanks and sorry again!


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    #8
    paska
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭paska


    This employee was reported by another member of staff. the video was used to back up the allegations which proved to be true


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    #9
    paska
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭paska


    Into The Blue wrote: »
    Just a warning will do

    Why?


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    #10
    paska
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭paska


    NicoleW85 wrote: »
    You need to give 2 verbal warnings and 1 written warning AFAIK. 4th grievance = show him the door!
    Maybe I should call the guards and dispense with this nonsense


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    #11
    NicoleW85
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭NicoleW85


    paska wrote:
    This employee was reported by another member of staff. the video was used to back up the allegations which proved to be true

    In that context it's fair game. I'm assuming now that's grounds for instant dismissal?


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    #12
    monkeysnapper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭monkeysnapper


    Did you have a contract for this employee to sign . Nearly every job I've ever worked there was a handbook of rules and conditions and the outcome should any of these rules be broken .


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    #13
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Jesus threads like these are a great example of why advice of this nature should not be sought on the internet.

    Firstly you need to have a fair investigatory hearing with the employee, ask them what the story is, show them the CCTV. CCTV can be used to detect staff theft - that's by definition a security issue.

    Once you've done that you will need to prepare a disciplinary hearing proper. You'll need to prepare a file for the employee - give them time to study it and prepare a defence. The employee will be allowed someone to accompany them to the hearing and will be allowed to cross examine witnesses.

    Ideally you need to hand it off at this stage - do you work for a chain? If so another store manager should be brought in to run the hearing and make the decision on what action needs to be taken. You need to keep the employee informed of what the possible outcomes are. If a possible outcome is dismissal you may need to consider allowing the employee solicitor to be present - it would be wise to have yours there too or a HR rep if you're in a chain.

    If you're asking what to do here you are ill prepared to carry out the process. If you're a chain what the hell are they doing letting managers in without training - if you're running your own business you need to get on to a solicitor or contract a HR consultant.

    It's very easy to end up at EAT and very, very easy to breach fair procedures. If you're going to take the risk simply dismiss them out of hand and bear the consequences. You're on firmer ground if the employee has been there less than a year.


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    #14
    NicoleW85
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭NicoleW85


    Pardon me, your honour.
    I'll return to my corner.
    Night everyone and all the best with your 'proceedings'.


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    #15
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    paska wrote: »
    I have a staff member giving free coffee to his friend and not putting it through the til. i also have the same man on video making food for himself and taking it into the back kitchen to eat it.

    I need to fire this person because it's not just once it's almost every shift. What is my next step? does anyone have a link to help me with the disciplinary procedure for how to tell the person about the first step to the potential outcome

    Have you ever warned him / her about this? How long has it being going on?


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    #16
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Thats theft, gross misconduct, fire his ass straight away. He's probably robbing more than you can see. At the very least suspend him straight away without pay while your conducting an investigation.
    Talk to your solicitor, he may suggest you call the Garda and have him done for theft.
    If he's there a long time sit him down if he's still under 9mts just tell him he's been let go you don't even need to tell him why.


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    #17
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Thats theft, gross misconduct, fire his ass straight away. He's probably robbing more than you can see. At the very least suspend him straight away without pay while your conducting an investigation.
    Talk to your solicitor, he may suggest you call the Garda and have him done for theft.
    If he's there a long time sit him down if he's still under 9mts just tell him he's been let go you don't even need to tell him why.

    Gross misconduct still requires a hearing otherwise everything you're doing is a breach of fair procedures and that alone will land you at EAT.

    If you're going to suspend a staff member, which is probably best, it will have to be with pay while the matter is resolved.

    OP the one piece of advice I would be taking from the above and the thread is seek proper advice from a professional. There's nothing that will attract more barrack room lawyers than employment law.


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    #18
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Thats theft, gross misconduct, fire his ass straight away. He's probably robbing more than you can see. At the very least suspend him straight away without pay while your conducting an investigation.
    Talk to your solicitor, he may suggest you call the Garda and have him done for theft.
    If he's there a long time sit him down if he's still under 9mts just tell him he's been let go you don't even need to tell him why.

    Nice idea but legally it doesn't work like that. There are legal procedures to be followed and one of this persons first defences will be "but no one told me not to do it". Solicitors make their living over such niceties.


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    #19
    daRobot
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    This is a nothing problem to be honest.

    The coffee is costing you almost nothing, and his friend may not even come in for it had it not been given for free, so don't assume a lost sale.

    As for making himself some food for his lunch, which again is not a big cost to you in any way. Well strike the man down dead....

    These are small little absuses that many workers will carry out, and if that's as bad as it gets, then you're doing well.

    Just have a simple word with him if it's bothering you so much.


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    #20
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    No time for playing soft with theft. He's well within his rights to call the Gardaí on him. I've had legal advice on this before. No need for verbal or written warnings in this case, contract or no contract your man is stealing from his employer end of story.


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    #21
    duffman13
    Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Have you got a disciplinary procedure in place? Has the employee signed security rules?

    If no, I'd have a formal conversation with a note taker. Give 24 notice of investigation and the option of a witness. Perform an investigation, and issue a final written warning. Anything else less you would be open for a claim.

    Edit: MarkAnthony nailed it above. Better to be safe than sorry


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    #22
    Triangla
    Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Triangla


    daRobot wrote: »
    This is a nothing problem to be honest.

    The coffee is costing you almost nothing, and his friend may not even come in for it had it not been given for free, so don't assume a lost sale.

    As for making himself some food for his lunch, which again is not a big cost to you in any way. Well strike the man down dead....

    These are small little absuses that many workers will carry out, and if that's as bad as it gets, then you're doing well.

    Just have a simple word with him if it's bothering you so much.

    I worked in shops during college and would have assumed I'd be shown the door for any of the things listed by the op.

    The above comment astounds me.


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    #23
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    daRobot wrote: »
    This is a nothing problem to be honest.

    What is the limit on staff theft before it becomes a problem? €2.50 for coffee, €7 for lunch, €15 for dinner, €25 cab fare for the trip home, a weekend away because it's been a tough week?


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    #24
    Tony Beetroot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Tony Beetroot


    I would consult with a solicitor at this stage.


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    #25
    duffman13
    Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭duffman13


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    No time for playing soft with theft. He's well within his rights to call the Gardaí on him. I've had legal advice on this before. No need for verbal or written warnings in this case, contract or no contract your man is stealing from his employer end of story.

    This is horrendous advice, have you ever been to a tribunal? That kind of advice could quickly lead to a 5 figure settlement for the staff member


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    #26
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    No time for playing soft with theft. He's well within his rights to call the Gardaí on him. I've had legal advice on this before. No need for verbal or written warnings in this case, contract or no contract your man is stealing from his employer end of story.

    Defacto contracts exist so that's not an issue.

    You're quite correct in stating that warning 'levels' can be skipped, what can't be skipped is the investigation which leads me on too...
    duffman13 wrote: »
    Have you got a disciplinary procedure in place? Has the employee signed security rules?

    If no I'd have a formal conversation with a note taker. Give 24 notice of investigation and the option of a witness. Perform an investigation, and issue a final written warning. Anything else less you would be open for a claim.

    ... you can't prejudge the outcome of a hearing. That leaves you open to a claim also. Very unlikely in the event of a final warning as opposed to being fired of course but best practice and all that.


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    #27
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    Gross misconduct still requires a hearing otherwise everything you're doing is a breach of fair procedures and that alone will land you at EAT.

    If you're going to suspend a staff member, which is probably best, it will have to be with pay while the matter is resolved.

    OP the one piece of advice I would be taking from the above and the thread is seek proper advice from a professional. There's nothing that will attract more barrack room lawyers than employment law.

    If I could give a thousand thanks to this I would, it is the best advice given on this thread. Speak to a professional please.


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    #28
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    obplayer wrote: »
    If I could give a thousand thanks to this I would, it is the best advice given on this thread. Speak to a professional please.

    Quite the BRL myself tbh! I know enough to know I know very little though - thankfully!


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    #29
    duffman13
    Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭duffman13


    MarkAnthony wrote: »


    ... you can't prejudge the outcome of a hearing. That leaves you open to a claim also. Very unlikely in the event of a final warning as opposed to being fired of course but best practice and all that.

    Spot on, I'm aware of that but if he or hopefully another manager is presented with the evidence as listed by the OP it would warrant a warning. Usually when I do these I'm not judge and jury ie other manager passes the disciplinary stage to me or vice versa


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    #30
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    Quite the BRL myself tbh! I know enough to know I know very little though - thankfully!

    Me too, I have run a small team in a supermarket so I have an idea what is involved.

    But what is a BRL?

    Got it!


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    #31
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Suspend this guy in the morning first thing regardless of what other people are advising. I'm speaking as an employer that's been down this road a few times.
    Don't wait for him to turn up just call him at 9am and do it.
    This guy has been hadling cash he's not to walk into your business again.


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