filter query, newby here!

Seve OB

Hope someone can please give me some advice.

Got the little ones a couple of gold fish today. The tank is a marina sea horse aquarium set. There is a filter included. When I set it all up, the filter was sucking water up through it and it was coming back out the top. After I while I noticed no noise out if it and it wasn't filtering the water. I thought maybe it just kicks in every so often.

Sure enough a short time later it started to filter again. Then I went out for a while but have noticed all evening that it is not filtering at all. Is this normal? Should the filter be constantly turning over or does it only operate intermittently? Hope someone can help please

Mech1

Filter should run constantly, check connections

Mech1

put up a picture of filter

Seve OB

Not much connections, just a plug!

Will get a pic up

Seve OB

IMAG1199 by stevieob, on Flickr

Mech1

lower it in the tank a bit more, or if thats not possible, raise tank water level.

Berserker

It should run constantly but you need a much, much bigger tank for those goldfish anyway. What size is that tank in terms of litres?

Seve OB

It won't lower, clipped onto the side. Topped up the water but could only get another half litre or so in or we'd have a wet sitting room!

Tank is plenty big. 14 litre

Berserker

Seve OB wrote: »

Tank is plenty big. 14 litre

One goldfish on it's own requires a tank of well over 100L.

penev10

Seve OB wrote: »

It won't lower, clipped onto the side. Topped up the water but could only get another half litre or so in or we'd have a wet sitting room!

Tank is plenty big. 14 litre

The fishkeeping community get very aggro about goldfish being kept in tanks of that size so I'll reply before someone tears your head off.

Goldfish can grow to over a foot long and live for 20-30 years if looked after properly. Goldfish in tanks <200L (and I'm being conservative there) suffer from stunted growth, ill health and significantly shorter life spans.

You'll probably have one of the 3 fish die after a while, and then another and the last hardy soul might last for a year or two. Forewarned is forearmed.

Silverfish

Seve OB wrote: »

It won't lower, clipped onto the side. Topped up the water but could only get another half litre or so in or we'd have a wet sitting room!

Tank is plenty big. 14 litre

Goldfish grow to about 10 inches in length, they need about 100l for one fish, about 40-60L for each additional fish, at the very barest minimum.

If they're single tail, they should be in a pond, as these will grow to about a foot in length. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Seve OB

Can we please get back on topic.

I dint care about the fish, just looking for advice on the filter please

Silverfish

Seve OB wrote: »

Can we please get back on topic.

I dint care about the fish, just looking for advice on the filter please

Leave it unplugged then, they'll die quicker and be out of their misery sooner.

Seve OB

Silverfish wrote: »

Leave it unplugged then, they'll die quicker and be out of their misery sooner.

No need to be a merchant banker about it.

DBB

Seve OB,
You categorically may not post in this forum if you're going to (a) call people names, and (b) ignore/reject the advice of far more experienced people when your behaviour threatens the welfare of the animal(s) in your care.
Post with respect for both humans and animals, or don't post in this forum.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Seve OB

So I come on and ask for some genuine advice about a filter.

It's ok for people to go off topic and ballyrag me about the fish, which were bought with the tank in a reputable shop for my 6 and 4 year olds.

But when I request to go back on topic and get slagged off for it, I cannot retaliate and yet it is me who gets the mod warning!

Where is the justness in that?

DBB

Asking people to get back on-topic is back seat modding. Nevertheless, that was not as big a problem as you personally abusing another user, which got you carded. Added to that was your raucous, inflammatory derision about the welfare of your pets.
And now, because you've argued with mods on thread, despite my specifically asking you not to ("Do not reply to this post on thread"), you can take a break from the forum.
Thanks,
DBB

Sleepy

Bring the fish back to the "reputable shop" and don't believe another word they tell you about fishkeeping as they're obviously utterly clueless. You could have the best filter in the world running on that tank and it wouldn't be suitable for a single guppy nevermind multiple goldfish.

Tiny tanks and goldfish bowls are banned in many countries as they're simply torture devices for fish. The ammonia buildup and lack of space lead to the fish being burned to death in their own excrement. Add the cruelty of that fate to the fact that most fishkeepers own guilt for the early goldfish we subjected to the same before learning not to trust pet shops and you can see where the sensitivity to the subject comes from.

When looking at fish, dedicated aquatics stores are the only way to go, pet shops simply don't have the expert knowledge, and any selling small tanks / bowls are either (a) managed by muppets or (b) owned by muppets who won't listen to their staff on the subject as the profit margins are great on killing goldfish in small bowls (as owners buy treatments for their sick goldfish and replace the fish on a regular basis).

A 14l tank is all but worthless in reality. Maybe you could keep a few shrimp in it but that really would be the height of it. A Betta (fighting fish) might survive in it (and many petshops will tell you they'd be suitable for such a small tank) but it'd be a miserable enough existence for the fish tbh.

Bring the stuff you've been mis-sold back to the store, get a refund for it (use the faulty filter as a reason if you have to). Do some reading up on fish-keeping (start with the cycling sticky at the top of the forum) and then take a look at adverts.ie or similar for second-hand tanks. You can typically get a 60 litre beginner tank with everything you'd need to keep small tropical fish for about €50. It's counter-intuitive but most tropical fish are actually easier to keep than coldwaters.

penev10

FYI Seahorse sell 10L "Goldfish tanks"

http://www.seahorseaquariums.com/Plastic-Goldfish-Tanks/Plastic-Aquariums/256

Reputable shop is a hard one to define.

Sleepy

penev10 wrote: »

FYI Seahorse sell 10L "Goldfish tanks"

http://www.seahorseaquariums.com/Plastic-Goldfish-Tanks/Plastic-Aquariums/256

Reputable shop is a hard one to define.

Really disappointing to hear that. I know Gavin wouldn't stock them in Artane Aquatics but is made sell them by the owners out in Newlands.

Silverfish

Sleepy wrote: »

Really disappointing to hear that. I know Gavin wouldn't stock them in Artane Aquatics but is made sell them by the owners out in Newlands.

I took it up with them two years ago or so, they told me once it had a filter it was fine for goldfish.
I'm part of an organisation to raise awareness of fishkeeping standards - its been a bit of a success in the UK with many retailers now detailing the correct stocking levels and full growth sizes of fish on their tanks.
Irish retailers not so interested - one shop told me they were not in the animal welfare business, they're in the retail business. I think that's the prevailing opinion.

Anyway the OP stated he doesn't care about the fish, so I don't think he cares if it's been mis-sold, he just wants a toy for the kids, which lets me honest, is the myth around goldfish for a lot of people.

Sleepy

Will you PM me the details of that organisation if you don't want to publish it here? I don't have a lot of free time as I've two small kids but if there's anything I can do to help out, I'd love to do so. It does my head in watching people kill so many fish out of innocent ignorance that the shops really should be taking more responsibility to deal with.

él statutorio

Sleepy wrote: »

Really disappointing to hear that. I know Gavin wouldn't stock them in Artane Aquatics but is made sell them by the owners out in Newlands.

Maybe they're planning on upselling? Get the customer to buy a bigger tank possibly?

While you obviously couldn't keep a goldfish in that tank, it would be fine for something like a betta or a few white clouds.

Sleepy

It's common enough practice by pet-stores tbh, fish in unsuitable tanks leads to more fish being sold (to replace the ones that die) and higher sales of medications which ultimately do little to counteract the root cause: too small a tank.

In terms of those tanks, they could be used for keeping fry or maybe for shrimp but nothing else tbh.

Bettas, like their cousins, are nearly always kept in tanks that are too small. My 9 year old kept a Betta in a 54l tank that he had to himself for almost 3 years. Most put in small tanks like that die within 6-12 months. As anabantoids they happen to be very good at surviving **** water conditions and so often appear to be doing ok when in fact they're far from healthy.

A white clouds are schoaling fish, you'd want to buy 6 at a minimum which would over-stock the tank.

Silverfish

él statutorio wrote: »

Maybe they're planning on upselling? Get the customer to buy a bigger tank possibly?

While you obviously couldn't keep a goldfish in that tank, it would be fine for something like a betta or a few white clouds.

The trouble with upselling on goldfish is that they're different to tropical fish, as while a tropical fish will keep growing until it outgrows the tank, goldfish usually won't and instead will be small and stunted.
Since they do most of their growing in the first year of life, they really need the max size tank from the start.
So if you start with a tiny tank, its likely your fish will never look to need a bigger tank, as its going to stay small and most likely, sick, and possibly dead before a quarter of it's lifespan has passed.

él statutorio

Sleepy wrote: »

It's common enough practice by pet-stores tbh, fish in unsuitable tanks leads to more fish being sold (to replace the ones that die) and higher sales of medications which ultimately do little to counteract the root cause: too small a tank.

In terms of those tanks, they could be used for keeping fry or maybe for shrimp but nothing else tbh.

Bettas, like their cousins, are nearly always kept in tanks that are too small. My 9 year old kept a Betta in a 54l tank that he had to himself for almost 3 years. Most put in small tanks like that die within 6-12 months. As anabantoids they happen to be very good at surviving **** water conditions and so often appear to be doing ok when in fact they're far from healthy.

A white clouds are schoaling fish, you'd want to buy 6 at a minimum which would over-stock the tank.

I'm just saying that you could keep a betta or a few white clouds in one of those. I'd be confident in keeping them in there myself with good filtration and water changes. I think they'd do ok. I kept a betta in what was probably a 10 liter tank for 3 years beside my bed when I was a teenager. Lots of water changes and good filtration and he lived for a long time (for a betta).
The other side of that is I wouldn't bother as it'd be a hassle and it'd take a lot more effort than just getting a bigger tank.

Silverfish wrote: »

The trouble with upselling on goldfish is that they're different to tropical fish, as while a tropical fish will keep growing until it outgrows the tank, goldfish usually won't and instead will be small and stunted.
Since they do most of their growing in the first year of life, they really need the max size tank from the start.
So if you start with a tiny tank, its likely your fish will never look to need a bigger tank, as its going to stay small and most likely, sick, and possibly dead before a quarter of it's lifespan has passed.

Maybe the plan is to up-sell to trops or something else once they're in the door?

I had a lot of time for Kealan when I lived in Dublin and I'd be surprised if he was pushing little tanks for goldfish.

Silverfish

él statutorio wrote: »

Maybe the plan is to up-sell to trops or something else once they're in the door?

I had a lot of time for Kealan when I lived in Dublin and I'd be surprised if he was pushing little tanks for goldfish.

Just to be clear, I never specifically said or mentioned Kealan, or pushing little tanks. All that was stated that little tanks are sold in Seahorse, and that was not by me.

él statutorio

Silverfish wrote: »

Just to be clear, I never specifically said or mentioned Kealan, or pushing little tanks. All that was stated that little tanks are sold in Seahorse, and that was not by me.

Oh I know, and I'm not accusing anyone of same.

Apologies if it came across that way.

Mech1

5ltr min, max fish size quoted as 12cm, from Seahorse website.
http://www.seahorseaquariums.com/Common-Goldfish/3875

read the pdf, small is fine meantime. Seahorse do a 50% price returns policy if it gets too big. then get new baby ones easy!

Mech1

Sleepy wrote: »

Will you PM me the details of that organisation if you don't want to publish it here? I don't have a lot of free time as I've two small kids but if there's anything I can do to help out, I'd love to do so. It does my head in watching people kill so many fish out of innocent ignorance that the shops really should be taking more responsibility to deal with.

Did we ever hear the name of that organisation? Im interested too.

penev10

Mech1 wrote: »

5ltr min, max fish size quoted as 12cm, from Seahorse website.
http://www.seahorseaquariums.com/Common-Goldfish/3875

read the pdf, small is fine meantime. Seahorse do a 50% price returns policy if it gets too big. then get new baby ones easy!

Says 50L no?

Mech1

penev10 wrote: »

Says 50L no?

500 is as good a guess, but considering that they sell 10l goldfish tanks I recon its the lower volume.

Possibly deliberately vague, so different people can think (or be told) different things?

Sleepy

Page says "050 Lt" which is 50 litres.

The pdf refers to Fancy Goldfish while the product code is for common.

Surprised at, and disappointed by such poor behaviour from Seahorse.

Sleepy

Mech1 wrote: »

Did we ever hear the name of that organisation? Im interested too.

https://www.facebook.com/INJAF

Ranchu

If you pull out the black plastic frame there is an impeller in the base. There is most likely something caught in it. Give it a clean and stick it back in.

While the people here are right about the ethics of keeping goldfish in a tank that size long term they should have a look at themselves for not offering any helpful advice whatsoever.

DBB

It seems to me that helping the op with this enquiry was profoundly difficult given the completely inappropriate set-up they have, albeit with the blessing of the shop the fish came from.
Kinda like asking how many miles could one jog with their elderly, arthritic dog... How do you give good advice when the only answer is "don't"?
Anyway, this thread is done.
Thanks,
DBB