Should Uber be banned?

Kermit.de.frog

Should the government ban the taxi app Uber or allow it to continue and bring the full free market to the taxi industry?

Lots of protests about it in various Euro countries. Taxi drivers say it's unfair competition that will put them out of business.

Some are calling on Ireland to ban the app too.

I think the app should most definitely stay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_516ml5ImGU

uch

Yep, No Regulation of it

The Backwards Man

You have to be a licensed SPSV operator in Ireland to sign up with Uber so it isn't a big problem, it's just another third party middleman like hailo, trivago and skyscanner that will eventually go the way of the dodo.
In other countries any Tom Dick or Harriet can be an Uber driver, and that is where the main opposition to it arises. I can't see it lasting though, once insurance companies and taxation authorities catch up with it.

Junkyard Tom

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

full free market

There are so few people who have a grasp of the concept of free markets and so many who cite it as if they do. There is no such thing as 'free' markets, never was, and never will be.

Consider this, if you will. Taxis use tax-payer funded public infrastructure, are subject to a fairly rigorous state enforced test for road worthiness, are required by law to have tax and insurance, drivers are required to pass a test by law, the roads are policed by the cops, the courts issue fines and bans to incompetent drivers and so and so on.

Now do away with all the regulations listed above and you'd have something resembling an unregulated 'free' market. Nobody really believes in free markets and everyone who is any bit rational understands the need for regulations so what we're left with is how much regulation we agree to implement.

Links234

Was using Uber plenty in the states, it was grand. I think taxis are just afraid of the competition.

delop

If the Government does, I think they should look into banning IT outsourcing , its driving down my wages, and from time to time it makes it difficult to find a suitable job.

3 times in the last 15 years Ive been made redundant , the jobs were moved abroad, at the time I just srugged my shoulders and upskilled to find a new job. I didnt know I could lobby the governemnt to impose more restrictions on my industry...

Junkyard Tom

delop wrote: »

If the Government does, I think they should look into banning IT outsourcing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYaZ57Bn4pQ

seamus

Uber as a company continually engage in unethical practices in order to undermine their competitors and bully new and existing entrants from the market.

Things such as sending Uber staff out to book taxis using the likes of Hailo and then cancelling just before the cut-off. Do this all over the place and drivers and customers get pissed off.
They also send large groups of staff out during big events (big sports games etc), and book out all of the other cabs in the area five minutes before the end of the event to ensure that only Uber cabs are available. They often then cancel these bookings.

That's not competing, that's being a dirty scumbag.

That is aside from the fact that their model allows any psychopath driving any old piece of **** to be a "taxi". Thankfully this doesn't work in Ireland, but on principle I won't use Uber because the corporation themselves are downright scumbags.

bren2002

seamus wrote: »

That is aside from the fact that their model allows any psychopath driving any old piece of **** to be a "taxi". Thankfully this doesn't work in Ireland, but on principle I won't use Uber because the corporation themselves are downright scumbags.

I thought they used really high end stuff, brand new s class mercs etc.

Hazys

Uber is fantastic. I live in the US and use it all the time.

Its 100x more convenient and better service than getting a cab and also cheaper.

The Taxi industry has made no effort ever to improve their service and we constantly hear stories of dirty cabs, rude cab drivers, cab drivers taking the long way, cash only, etc. and there was nothing the customer could do.

Its fitting that when they get some competition their reaction is not "How can we improve our service to better service our customers and keep them?" its "fcuk UBER lets try and shut them down and continue to provide the same sh1tty service". They tried to do this in multiple states and cities in the US and have mostly failed.

I'll only use a cab as a last resort. UBER has changed the industry for the better.

seamus

bren2002 wrote: »

I thought they used really high end stuff, brand new s class mercs etc.

There are different Uber "classes" of car that you can book, from the cheapest, where anything could turn up, to the most expensive which could be a €250,000 executive car.

Dial Hard

bren2002 wrote: »

I thought they used really high end stuff, brand new s class mercs etc.

That's Uber Black, their "premium" service.

Hazys

seamus wrote: »

Uber as a company continually engage in unethical practices in order to undermine their competitors and bully new and existing entrants from the market.

Things such as sending Uber staff out to book taxis using the likes of Hailo and then cancelling just before the cut-off. Do this all over the place and drivers and customers get pissed off.
They also send large groups of staff out during big events (big sports games etc), and book out all of the other cabs in the area five minutes before the end of the event to ensure that only Uber cabs are available. They often then cancel these bookings.

That's not competing, that's being a dirty scumbag.

That is aside from the fact that their model allows any psychopath driving any old piece of **** to be a "taxi". Thankfully this doesn't work in Ireland, but on principle I won't use Uber because the corporation themselves are downright scumbags.

Do you have any proof of this?

At least UBER check the background of their drivers, do taxi companies?

Also UBER vehicles have to be or a certain age and type of vehicle.

Hazys

seamus wrote: »

There are different Uber "classes" of car that you can book, from the cheapest, where anything could turn up, to the most expensive which could be a €250,000 executive car.

Thats not true. UBERX cars (the cheapest service) can't be more than 5 years old and a certain model.

Seamus are you a taxi driver?

P_1

seamus wrote: »

Uber as a company continually engage in unethical practices in order to undermine their competitors and bully new and existing entrants from the market.

Things such as sending Uber staff out to book taxis using the likes of Hailo and then cancelling just before the cut-off. Do this all over the place and drivers and customers get pissed off.
They also send large groups of staff out during big events (big sports games etc), and book out all of the other cabs in the area five minutes before the end of the event to ensure that only Uber cabs are available. They often then cancel these bookings.

That's not competing, that's being a dirty scumbag.

That is aside from the fact that their model allows any psychopath driving any old piece of **** to be a "taxi". Thankfully this doesn't work in Ireland, but on principle I won't use Uber because the corporation themselves are downright scumbags.

That's damn scummy alright. Where has this happened out of interest?

Hazys

P_1 wrote: »

That's damn scummy alright. Where has this happened out of interest?

Something tells me this is just lies started by taxi drivers lol

Also on Hailo, don't you have to have an account linked to a credit card? That would seem to be very hard to do on large scale. Seems highly unlikely that the above is true.

Take2Sean

Uber from Gatwick to London Centre. 1 hour & 2 mins. 70km...£50 no cash needed and complementary bottles of water...just shows the taxi regulation is outdated.

The problem I see is that the Taxis aren't being allowed to compete. An analogy I heard on UK radio was that it's like playing a match with one team have 7 players and the other team having 15...problem wasn't the team who have 15 it was the referee allowing that. The answer shouldn't be to ban uber but to allow the taxis to compete with them.

The Backwards Man

Hazys wrote: »

Do you have any proof of this?

At least UBER check the background of their drivers, do taxi companies?

Also UBER vehicles have to be or a certain age and type of vehicle.

Are their drivers Garda vetted?

Are their drivers properly insured for hire or reward?

Are their vehicles inspected by a regulatory authority?

Are their drivers fully tax compliant and not connected to money laundering?

The US is a long way behind Ireland when it comes to background checks.

Hazys

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Are their drivers Garda vetted?

Are there drivers properly insured for hire or reward?

Are their vehicles inspected by a regulatory authority?

Are their drivers fully tax compliant and not connected to money laundering?

The US is a long way behind Ireland when it comes to background checks.

I know in the US they are.

Money laundering? dafuq? Thats as relevant as asking are taxi drivers not connected to arms smuggling?

The Backwards Man

Hazys wrote: »

I know in the US they are.

Money laundering? dafuq? Thats as relevant as asking are taxi drivers not connected to arms smuggling?

They are unlicensed, uninsured and unchecked by federal, state or local authorities in the US.

seamus

P_1 wrote: »

That's damn scummy alright. Where has this happened out of interest?

Initially there was this. http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2014/01/uber-technologies-gett.html

Then a few months later they were at it even worse, though they decided to deny it:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-requests-lyft/

Even though it was proven be an actual internal programme:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/26/6067663/this-is-ubers-playbook-for-sabotaging-lyft

Uber are good at playing the "just a regular joe" marketing game though.

Hazys wrote: »

UBERX cars (the cheapest service) can't be more than 5 years old and a certain model.

Who verifies this? How do Uber stop someone from getting approved as a driver and then using a 1997 Toyota Corolla for ferrying passengers around?

Seamus are you a taxi driver?

Nope. Do you work for Uber?

Dial Hard

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Are their drivers Garda vetted?

Are their drivers properly insured for hire or reward?

Are their vehicles inspected by a regulatory authority?

Are their drivers fully tax compliant and not connected to money laundering?

As has already been stated, all Uber drivers in Ireland have to hold an SPSV licence. In order to get an SPSV licence you must:

- Hold an Irish driving licence or a driving licence from another EU, EEA or other recognised state.

- Show that your tax affairs are up to date by producing a current tax clearance certificate.

- Pass the SPSV Entry Test and obtain the SPSV Skills Development Certificate.

- Be considered by An Garda Síochána to be a suitable person to hold an SPSV driver licence.

And Uber themselves require that all their drivers have the appropriate insurance cover.

So, yes, their drivers tick pretty much all the boxes you listed above.

Egginacup

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Should the government ban the taxi app Uber or allow it to continue and bring the full free market to the taxi industry?

Lots of protests about it in various Euro countries. Taxi drivers say it's unfair competition that will put them out of business.

Some are calling on Ireland to ban the app too.

I think the app should most definitely stay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_516ml5ImGU

More bullsh1t about free markets that you parrot.
So you think regulation should be abolished?

How about there being no regulation of the mechanics and pilots who work on the planes that carry your ass and your family on a trip?

How about zero regulation regarding the food that goes into a can that you put on the kitchen table?


full free market ...gimme a break

The Backwards Man

Dial Hard wrote: »

As has already been stated, all Uber drivers in Ireland have to hold an SPSV licence. In order to get an SPSV licence you must:

- Hold an Irish driving licence or a driving licence from another EU, EEA or other recognised state.

- Show that your tax affairs are up to date by producing a current tax clearance certificate.

- Pass the SPSV Entry Test and obtain the SPSV Skills Development Certificate.

- Be considered by An Garda Síochána to be a suitable person to hold an SPSV driver licence.

And Uber themselves require that all their drivers have the appropriate insurance cover.

So, yes, their drivers tick pretty much all the boxes you listed above.

It was me that stated that. They aren't a problem in Ireland, to get a foothold they've had to play by the rules. It's in other countries where the regs aren't so watertight they are a problem that will have to be dealt with sooner or later

Hazys

seamus wrote: »

Initially there was this. http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2014/01/uber-technologies-gett.html

Then a few months later they were at it even worse, though they decided to deny it:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-requests-lyft/

Even though it was proven be an actual internal programme:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/26/6067663/this-is-ubers-playbook-for-sabotaging-lyft

Fair enough, doesn't seem like a widespread problem tho.

Uber are good at playing the "just a regular joe" marketing game though.

Who verifies this? How do Uber stop someone from getting approved as a driver and then using a 1997 Toyota Corolla for ferrying passengers around?

Nope. Do you work for Uber?

No i don't work for UBER but I get UBER maybe upto half a dozen times a week for the last couple of years. In that time I have never got a sh1tty car so whatever they do to ensure the quality of their vehicles its working.

From any of the drivers I've spoken to they love it also. A lot of people work Monday 9-5 and then some evenings if they feel like work as an UBER driver and make some extra cash. Then there are some who do it full time who would drive into the City from anywhere upto an hour outside and work shifts and make very good money.

For the customer its fantastic, i don't know why anybody would be so opposed to it because the service in the cab industry is just awful in comparison. For the drivers themselves it seems to work too.

Hazys

The Backwards Man wrote: »

They are unlicensed, uninsured and unchecked by federal, state or local authorities in the US.

What? Have you ever got an UBER?

In Boston, they are regulated.

wupucus

as a regular taxi user, I think anything that may force the taxi industry to put it's house in order has to be a good think !!!!! the amount of dirty taxis ant scruffy unhygienic drivers never ceases to amaze me :eek: - have these people so little self respect that they arrive to work expecting people to sit in a confined space with them when they look and smell like this :mad: - there does not seem to be any sort of standards in operation - I have travelled in taxi's/cab's all over Europe and have never come across as many filthy drivers and cars - so bring it on - any and all competition is welcome -

The Backwards Man

Hazys wrote: »

What? Have you ever got an UBER?

In Boston, they are regulated.

By who?

NachoBusiness

It's only a matter of time before a Taxi service is launched based on after-the-fact donations (or similar) which will be exempt from driver's needing to have licenced cars or any kind of taxi insurance. Everyone does it for friends, where they throw you a score for juice or whatever (granted, that's technically illegal) but I can see a loophole being found someday that bypasses the current 'for reward' and 'taxi licence' requirements, which will mean that anyone with an android and a car could be Travis Bickle'ing around at their want, with nowt to stop them.

May not happen but I'm predicting it just in case it does.

jobbridge4life

Banned no. Regulated to an appropriate degree and in a comparable fashion to taxis, yes.

seamus

It's all kind of moot at this stage anyway about who's offering a better service. Anyone who's under 50 and driving a taxi needs to start thinking about their career options. Once fully automated vehicles hit the road, the taximan will be out of business in less than five years.

The likes of Uber and Hailo will be fine, they'll just adapt their model to send automated cars instead. But the taxi driver will be dead and buried.

The Backwards Man

seamus wrote: »

It's all kind of moot at this stage anyway about who's offering a better service. Anyone who's under 50 and driving a taxi needs to start thinking about their career options. Once fully automated vehicles hit the road, the taximan will be out of business in less than five years.

The likes of Uber and Hailo will be fine, they'll just adapt their model to send automated cars instead. But the taxi driver will be dead and buried.

I wouldn't be panicking just yet. There will be pilotless planes, doctorless hospitals and idiotless accountancy firms long before there are driverless taxis.:)

Hazys

The Backwards Man wrote: »

By who?

http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/government/oca-agencies/dos-lp/uber-technologies.html

http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2015/01/03/uber-regulations-massachusetts-department-or-public-utilities-ridesharing-regulations/

Jawgap

Definitely should be kept.

Taxi drivers would be better off embracing the change rather than try to fight it.

Or even better - work on something better than Uber and by better I mean something that offers a comparable service for a lower cost or a better service for about the same price.

The Backwards Man

Hazys wrote: »

http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/government/oca-agencies/dos-lp/uber-technologies.html

http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2015/01/03/uber-regulations-massachusetts-department-or-public-utilities-ridesharing-regulations/

That's not regulation, that's an operating license.

Regulation has been proposed in Mass, including background checks on drivers, insurance for transporting of passengers and proper identification as a For Hire vehicle. Be interesting to see what happens in Boston when this is enacted.

http://www.mass.gov/governor/legislationexecorder/legislation/oversight-of-transportation-network-companies.html

Gandhi

I have no idea who is regulating Uber in Philly, but it is working. Any time I've taken Uber (only a handful of times) both vehicle and driver were orders of magnitude cleaner and better maintained than any taxi I've taken. I don't know how they could launder money. Payment (including tip) goes through the Uber app which is linked to a credit card. Ironically, the taxi companies in Philly are notorious for money-laundering for the mob.

One huge advantage in the US is that Uber is hyper-local. Before Uber all taxis were city-centre based, so getting a cab from one suburban town to another was virtually impossible. To put it in Cork terms, it was fine getting a taxi from Cork to Macroom, or Cork to Mallow, but impossible to get a cab from Mallow to Macroom. Uber have made that trivially easy.

They must be doing well, too. Uber constantly have ads on the radio here. Not convincing people to take Uber, but convincing people to become drivers for Uber.