Initial reactions to Bertie Aherns interrogation

KingBrian2

Did it go the way you liked or should they have got stuck into him? Personally he came across as being able to hold his own throughout. No real harsh questions about Anglo, seems to be aware of how bad he screwed the people in the mortgage department. Contrition over this fact was self evident.

Mr.Micro

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Did it go the way you liked or should they have got stuck into him? Personally he came across as being able to hold his own throughout. No real harsh questions about Anglo, seems to be aware of how bad he screwed the people in the mortgage department. Contrition over this fact was self evident.

What difference does it make? None, IMO. So far all I have seen, is nobody saw it coming, nobody is to blame, and the inquiry is just giving the likes of Ahern et al a platform to say how right they were. The crisis never happened.

shedweller

"Nobody saw it coming"
Haha!

Floppybits

All Bertie did was come in and read from his book.

Seth Brundle

Floppybits wrote: »

All Bertie did was come in and read from his book.

So finally somebody has read his book!

uck51js9zml2yt

No one told me. It was der fault.
He really shouldn't have come out of his cupboard.

Berserker

Lots of people throwing verbal digs but he dodged them like an old pro, from the bits I saw. That whole process is pointless, imo. It must be costing the tax payer a fortune.

joe swanson

Mr.Micro wrote: »

What difference does it make? None, IMO. So far all I have seen, is nobody saw it coming, nobody is to blame, and the inquiry is just giving the likes of Ahern et al a platform to say how right they were. The crisis never happened.

Nota fan of his but to me it's looking like a platform for people like Pearse Doherty, (yes the man with a certificate in engineering) and other political parties or none to have a go and engage in oneupmanship.

Bertie handled it well I think.

He handled it very well. I think evidence of how well Ahern handled the Inquiry's investigation into his tenure as Taoiseach is demonstrated by the disappointed noiselessness of the media on his testimony. We've waited 6-7 years to hear these men, Ahern and Cowen, speak frankly of their thought-processes in cabinet and in crisis, and now they've spoken, the media are strangely laconic about the whole thing.

The only exception was Miriam Lord's unusually bitter obloquy in the IT last weekend. It was sarcastic tirade instead of her usually blistering, swift and dispassionate takedown of Irish political figures. I think she came out of the bruiser looking worse than Ahern.

I think many people find the rationale offered by Ahern & Cowen annoyingly, well, rational.

In their opening statements, Ahern and Cowen laid all of the ESRI, OECD and (ironically) IMF projections before the Inquiry, to utterly discredit the lie that there were warning signs of an Irish banking or economic crisis. Brian Cowen did what almost none of his detractors have done, and actually read Morgan Kelly's infamous paper on the housing bubble, which was actually way off the mark, and would have led anybody reading that paper to believe that Ireland was a fundamentally sound ship; unsinkable.

I suspect it's still perhaps a decade too soon for any of this to be acknowledged.

Mr.Micro

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

He handled it very well. I think evidence of how well Ahern handled the Inquiry's investigation into his tenure as Taoiseach is demonstrated by the disappointed noiselessness of the media on his testimony. We've waited 6-7 years to hear these men, Ahern and Cowen, speak frankly of their thought-processes in cabinet and in crisis, and now they've spoken, the media are strangely laconic about the whole thing.

The only exception was Miriam Lord's unusually bitter obloquy in the IT last weekend. It was sarcastic tirade instead of her usually blistering, swift and dispassionate takedown of Irish political figures. I think she came out of the bruiser looking worse than Ahern.

I think many people find the rationale offered by Ahern & Cowen annoyingly, well, rational.



In their opening statements, Ahern and Cowen laid all of the ESRI, OECD and (ironically) IMF projections before the Inquiry, to utterly discredit the lie that there were warning signs of an Irish banking or economic crisis. Brian Cowen did what almost none of his detractors have done, and actually read Morgan Kelly's infamous paper on the housing bubble, which was actually way off the mark, and would have led anybody reading that paper to believe that Ireland was a fundamentally sound ship; unsinkable.

I suspect it's still perhaps a decade too soon for any of this to be acknowledged.

When it comes to saving face and 7 years to come up with answers, slick Ahern and Cowen, do just that. It's a pity neither was so sharp when in office and a job to do. Common sense and logic were in short supply. Another Government had to save the country and thus allowing the likes of the above two the luxury to wallow in their glowing memoirs and their fat pensions.

LuckyLloyd

Mr.Micro wrote: »

When it comes to saving face and 7 years to come up with answers, slick Ahern and Cowen, do just that. It's a pity neither was so sharp when in office and a job to do. Common sense and logic were in short supply. Another Government had to save the country and thus allowing the likes of the above two the luxury to wallow in their glowing memoirs and their fat pensions.

The problem is that the enquiry has offered no compelling proof (thus far) that the government were acting absent of common sense or logic or that the opposition at the time would have averted the crisis were they at the reins of power.

We assume the unhealthily close relationship between FF and Developers / Bankers / etc contributed to the lax regulation, loose government spending and disastrous guarantee. But the enquiry has failed to demonstrate that. On the contrary it is serving to disabuse one of holding such assumptions.

The_Captain

Did Fine Gael really think the man was going to come in sweating and out-debated by a bunch of nobodies?

Bertie has years of experience at dodging questions at the top level of politics. He knew this was coming and has had a long time to prepare and rehearse answers.
He waffled through, kept hammering his key points and went home bored.


I'm actually amazed at how badly this has gone for Enda. The was supposed to be a chance to knock in a few goals against Fianna Fail before the next election.
He looked awful in front of the Inquiry himself. He's not a great off-the-cuff speaker and he was almost torn to shreds.

End of the day, I think the Inquiry will result in more votes for FF in the next election.

Mr.Micro

The_Captain wrote: »

Did Fine Gael really think the man was going to come in sweating and out-debated by a bunch of nobodies?

Bertie has years of experience at dodging questions at the top level of politics. He knew this was coming and has had a long time to prepare and rehearse answers.
He waffled through, kept hammering his key points and went home bored.


I'm actually amazed at how badly this has gone for Enda. The was supposed to be a chance to knock in a few goals against Fianna Fail before the next election.
He looked awful in front of the Inquiry himself. He's not a great off-the-cuff speaker and he was almost torn to shreds.

End of the day, I think the Inquiry will result in more votes for FF in the next election.

So true. It has indeed backfired, if the intention was to gain political points. On the other hand one could choose to believe the whole inquiry was for transparency and openness. The winners in all this is the developers and the bankers.

Mr.Micro

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The winners in all this is the developers and the bankers.

How?

This Inquiry has no bearing on them or their lives at all. A few developers will be called before the Inquiry but, just like the senior executive officers of the banks, there will be no personal or professional ramifications for them.

I am going to invoke Coleridge and suspend my disbelief that this Inquiry is merely a political artifice, a show trial. Anyway, who cares if it is?

The real victors are the historians, and anyone interested in Irish history. Ignore the findings of the Banking Inquiry. We can put our own intelligence to good service by reading the testimony ourselves and reaching our own views.

If the Banking Inquiry has given us nothing else, it has given us the ability to make up our own minds, and isn't that a good thing?

KingBrian2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How?

This Inquiry has no bearing on them or their lives at all. A few developers will be called before the Inquiry but, just like the senior executive officers of the banks, there will be no personal or professional ramifications for them.

I am going to invoke Coleridge and suspend my disbelief that this Inquiry is merely a political artifice, a show trial. Anyway, who cares if it is?

The real victors are the historians, and anyone interested in Irish history. Ignore the findings of the Banking Inquiry. We can put our own intelligence to good service by reading the testimony ourselves and reaching our own views.

If the Banking Inquiry has given us nothing else, it has given us the ability to make up our own minds, and isn't that a good thing?

Depends on how seriously future Dáil's will interpret the conclusions of the inquiry. Any politician can come on tell a story of greed and power that will make no difference if no changes are made to how gvt should operate. We'll see if these guys have the temerity to listen to banker that fled to America to escape from his misdeeds and wreckless behaviour.

Berserker

KingBrian2 wrote: »

We'll see if these guys have the temerity to listen to banker that fled to America to escape from his misdeeds and wreckless behaviour.

That will be nothing more than a showpiece for the likes of Mary-Lou, Pearse, their lefty cronies and a gaggle of young pups from the rest of the political masses. Whilst the banker in question was inept when it came to his job, he should have more than enough in his locker to handle that bunch. Another nothing event.

Mr.Micro

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How?

This Inquiry has no bearing on them or their lives at all. A few developers will be called before the Inquiry but, just like the senior executive officers of the banks, there will be no personal or professional ramifications for them.

That is my point.

Mr.Micro

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Depends on how seriously future Dáil's will interpret the conclusions of the inquiry. Any politician can come on tell a story of greed and power that will make no difference if no changes are made to how gvt should operate. We'll see if these guys have the temerity to listen to banker that fled to America to escape from his misdeeds and wreckless behaviour.

He should not have left at all, sure there is no such thing as fraud in Ireland, he has nothing to worry about. Nama would probably have sorted him out with a bit of a pension as well, lol.

KingBrian2

Mr.Micro wrote: »

He should not have left at all, sure there is no such thing as fraud in Ireland, he has nothing to worry about. Nama would probably have sorted him out with a bit of a pension as well, lol.

Who came up with the idea that fraud does not exist in Ireland. People seem to have come to that conclusion. Fraud is a misdemeanour, nobody is prosecuted for it as it does not endanger the public only wrecking the finances of companies and households. Going after fraud would mean having internal controls that follow the flow of cash. A bank would have every interest to ensure that its accounts are not being used as slush funds.

joe swanson

Mick Wallace seems to be very quiet on this particular subject.........

Dob74

KingBrian2 wrote:

Did it go the way you liked or should they have got stuck into him? Personally he came across as being able to hold his own throughout. No real harsh questions about Anglo, seems to be aware of how bad he screwed the people in the mortgage department. Contrition over this fact was self evident.

Bertie is in complete denial and can't face up to the mess he made. When asked about speech he made to US bankers where he said ireland had soft regulation, he quickly said he meant good regulation. yeah right. He knows he made the mess and knows the indo with all his true believers will buy his bull.
Cowan at least stated the reasons for his decisions. I wouldn't agree in what he did but at least you could see what he was trying to do.

Berserker

Dob74 wrote: »

Bertie is in complete denial and can't face up to the mess he made.

A common issue in Irish politics. Take a look around Dail Eireann today and there are more than a few examples of people who are in denial and haven't the guts to tell the public about their past. Don't see why Bertie has to be any different. He has retired now and these "interrogations" are a waste of our, the taxpayers, money and the time of our political representatives, who should be thinking of ways to move our country forward. Granted most of the chief mouthpieces in there, seem to be lacking when it comes to that skill.

Dob74

Berserker wrote:

A common issue in Irish politics. Take a look around Dail Eireann today and there are more than a few examples of people who are in denial and haven't the guts to tell the public about their past. Don't see why Bertie has to be any different. He has retired now and these "interrogations" are a waste of our, the taxpayers, money and the time of our political representatives, who should be thinking of ways to move our country forward. Granted most of the chief mouthpieces in there, seem to be lacking when it comes to that skill.

I can't see how people say it is a waste of taxpayers money. The banking mess has cost 100 billion and if interest rates increase we are goosed.
In fairness to most people in politics they have a political point of view. Bertie just says what he thinks people want to hear. That's why he increased spending and decreased taxes every year he was in power. A disaster waiting to happen. Sadly 20% of people are still willing to vote for FF.