Builder said he priced the job for cash.

iamtony

Just having some work done and it's just finished and I asked what name will I put on the bank draft and he said...eh I priced this job for cash! I don't want to give away too much as he might be on here but it's a big enough amount like extension money.
I have it on an email that I sent that I will pay by bank draft when the job is finished and not once did anyone mention cash to me but nobody mentioned VAT either the price was just quoted as is. Now they say I'll have to pay vat if I want to pay with a draft.
Personally I don't mind giving cash but what's the story with getting large amounts of cash from banks these days? Do they ask questions? Can I get into trouble for this?
Also what is the rate of vat on this kind of job.

Thanks.

DOCARCH

iamtony wrote: »

[the Bulder]...eh I priced this job for cash!

That's illegal.

iamtony wrote: »

Personally I don't mind giving cash...

...and...That's illegal.

You will have to make up your own mind on this one as to what to do, but, we cannot discuss the 'pros' of paying cash on this forum.

iamtony

Ok understood but I'm really trying to see where I stand? Can he legally charge what he has quoted plus vat now as he never mentioned it and I have the price in writing with no mention of plus vat?

And when I say I don't mind paying cash I wasn't referring to a cash job(no vat) I meant physical money.

cnoc

iamtony wrote: »

Ok understood but I'm really trying to see where I stand? Can he legally charge what he has quoted plus vat now as he never mentioned it and I have the price in writing with no mention of plus vat?

And when I say I don't mind paying cash I wasn't referring to a cash job(no vat) I meant physical money.

Did you get a quotation in writing?

thecommander

DOCARCH wrote: »

That's illegal.
...and...That's illegal.

Paying or receiving cash is not illegal.

aaakev

There is no problem paying cash but if a business accepts over €15,000 in cash for a service or product (can be multiple payments for the same job/products) it must be reported to revenue. Id give him his draft and be done, sounds like he is chancing his arm to me. If you are a private customer and not a business he should have been quoting the gross figure as the vat element is irrelevant to you

cnoc

iamtony wrote: »

Just having some work done and it's just finished and I asked what name will I put on the bank draft and he said...eh I priced this job for cash! I don't want to give away too much as he might be on here but it's a big enough amount like extension money.
I have it on an email that I sent that I will pay by bank draft when the job is finished and not once did anyone mention cash to me but nobody mentioned VAT either the price was just quoted as is. Now they say I'll have to pay vat if I want to pay with a draft.
Personally I don't mind giving cash but what's the story with getting large amounts of cash from banks these days? Do they ask questions? Can I get into trouble for this?
Also what is the rate of vat on this kind of job.

Thanks.

Do banks inform Revenue Commissioners if a large sum is withdrawn in cash?

Idbatterim

if it is in email, maybe try get the price down by paying cash win / win. Cash is far more valuable to him... Better in your pockets than being pissed up against the wall by the state...

kirving

thecommander wrote: »

Paying or receiving cash is not illegal.

Paying in cash is fine, it's up to the builder to sort out his tax affairs, may sure you get a proper reciept in case of future issues though.

Bear in mind too, you pay tax on your earnings, and so should he. Revenue are no fools either, there's a very real chance he could be audited.

iamtony

cnoc wrote: »

Did you get a quotation in writing?

I have a price in writing not so much a quotation more a case of, I've priced up that job and I can do it for x amount, then a bit of haggling, then an agreed amount and in writing I stated payment on completion of x amount by draft and there was no mention of plus vat and no argument about the draft at the time.

runawaybishop

iamtony wrote: »

Ok understood but I'm really trying to see where I stand? Can he legally charge what he has quoted plus vat now as he never mentioned it and I have the price in writing with no mention of plus vat?

And when I say I don't mind paying cash I wasn't referring to a cash job(no vat) I meant physical money.

His quote is required to be vat inclusive. He's dodging tax, tell him you'll be paying via bank draft or not at all.

yabadabado

Write out the cheque or get a bankdraft for whatever the agreed amount was and hand it over.**** him,if he doesn't like it.

iamtony

aaakev wrote: »

There is no problem paying cash but if a business accepts over €15,000 in cash for a service or product (can be multiple payments for the same job/products) it must be reported to revenue. Id give him his draft and be done, sounds like he is chancing his arm to me. If you are a private customer and not a business he should have been quoting the gross figure as the vat element is irrelevant to you

That's the answer I'm looking for thanks!

tastyt

Just give him the cash if it saves you money. It's up to him to sort his tax affairs. You were given a quote of how much it would cost you to get the job done. You weren't to know if your builder is paying tax or not. It's not your responsibility

iamtony

tastyt wrote: »

Just give him the cash if it saves you money. It's up to him to sort his tax affairs. You were given a quote of how much it would cost you to get the job done. You weren't to know if your builder is paying tax or not. It's not your responsibility

How much cash can you get from a bank before they ask questions?

yabadabado

tastyt wrote: »

Just give him the cash if it saves you money. It's up to him to sort his tax affairs. You were given a quote of how much it would cost you to get the job done. You weren't to know if your builder is paying tax or not. It's not your responsibility

Its not saving the OP money.

iamtony

tastyt wrote: »

Just give him the cash if it saves you money. It's up to him to sort his tax affairs. You were given a quote of how much it would cost you to get the job done. You weren't to know if your builder is paying tax or not. It's not your responsibility

And it's not really saving me money I payed over the odds to get a proper job done.

runawaybishop

tastyt wrote: »

Just give him the cash if it saves you money. It's up to him to sort his tax affairs. You were given a quote of how much it would cost you to get the job done. You weren't to know if your builder is paying tax or not. It's not your responsibility

It's kinda up to every citizen to not facilitate fraud.

él statutorio

iamtony wrote: »

How much cash can you get from a bank before they ask questions?

I think for deposits the limit is €5k before the bank has to report it due to money laundering legislation. Not sure if it's still €5k or if it has gone up or down.

No idea if there's a ceiling on withdrawals though.

daveville30

Any amount its your money they can't question you about ur money.pay him cash and let him worry about tax.ur not doing anything wrong.

runawaybishop

iamtony wrote: »

And it's not really saving me money I payed over the odds to get a proper job done.

Found the legislation for you by the way.


Where, for the purposes of or in connection with the rendering of a service by a person, the charge for the service is stated orally by the person or by a servant or agent of the person or is stated in any catalogue or advertisement or in a notice or other document (other than an invoice), the charge so stated shall be stated as a single amount inclusive of any charge made by the person for any tax payable in respect of the service.

runawaybishop

daveville30 wrote: »

Any amount its your money they can't question you about ur money.pay him cash and let him worry about tax.ur not doing anything wrong.

They certainly can question you about it. Op is aware that something is wrong, hence the thread.

Victor

iamtony wrote: »

How much cash can you get from a bank before they ask questions?

We're not here to facilitate money laundering or tax evasion.

Any unusual transaction or anything over X thousand will be reported.

iamtony

So let's say I get more than 5k and they report it and revenue ask me about it am I obliged to provide them with receipts or anything like that or tell them what I did with it?

TCP/IP

Ok you can pay cash no problem most banks need cash over 5k ordered with 24 hour notice. The bank will not question what it is for. The only other aspect you need to do is get a receipt for the payment and work done. What he does with it is his problem.

ted1

DOCARCH wrote: »

That's illegal.



...and...That's illegal.

You will have to make up your own mind on this one as to what to do, but, we cannot discuss the 'pros' of paying cash on this forum.

Paying with cash is not illegal.

Don't forget about claiming your tax credits .
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/hri/

elastico

aaakev wrote: »

There is no problem paying cash but if a business accepts over €15,000 in cash for a service or product (can be multiple payments for the same job/products) it must be reported to revenue.

Have you a source for that, never heard of it before?

iamtony

Victor wrote: »

We're not here to facilitate money laundering or tax evasion.

Any unusual transaction or anything over X thousand will be reported.

I'm not here for that either I'm only asking the question and to cover my own ass.

Rackstar

Victor wrote: »

We're not here to facilitate money laundering or tax evasion.

Any unusual transaction or anything over X thousand will be reported.

X thousand? 10k?

DOCARCH

ted1 wrote: »

Paying with cash is not illegal.

O.k. Fair enough, it is not illegal. But, when I go into a shop or petrol station and pay cash, I get a (VAT) receipt.

In the OP's case, clearly the purpose of the builder wanting to be paid in cash is to avoid paying tax/VAT.

That is illegal!

And now the OP is aware of it, s/he is party to it.

ted1

Out of interest did he also say that he has insurance ?

Victor

Oh, if you 'pay cash', realise that down the line, if there is a Capital Gains Tax issue, you may end up with a bill for what is, in effect, the builder's tax.

daveville30 wrote: »

its your money they can't question you about ur money.

They can and do. Turning blind eyes is a thing of the past.

salmocab

If you want to avoid hassle with him and can do it pay him cash if your ever questioned by any authorities tell the truth about how much you paid and to who. The tax is his problem just make sure the job is finished fully snagged and if you have arrangements over retention that they are clear. Also get a receipt.

aaakev

elastico wrote: »

Have you a source for that, never heard of it before?

A big anti money laundering document we got from revenue in 2013. I work in a business where cash payments are common and the rules are payments over 15k must be reported and the source of the payments must be reported.

iamtony

ted1 wrote: »

Out of interest did he also say that he has insurance ?

Yes he has and I was wondering if I'm covered if it doesn't go through his books?

dr.fuzzenstein

runawaybishop wrote: »

It's kinda up to every citizen to not facilitate fraud.

And yet we vote them in anyway.

desertcircus

The answer to "how much can I take out in cash without it being noticed?" is not simple. Broadly speaking, probably a lot less than you think. The person on the other side of the counter has a legal responsibility to report transactions they suspect may be dodgy (see here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/financial_institutions/money_laundering_in_ireland.html).

DOCARCH

thecommander wrote: »

Paying or receiving cash is not illegal.

It is when it's (purposely) in connection with tax/VAT evasion.

Dardania

ted1 wrote: »

Paying with cash is not illegal.

Don't forget about claiming your tax credits .
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/hri/

Came here to say this...

Victor

iamtony wrote: »

Yes he has and I was wondering if I'm covered if it doesn't go through his books?

Insurance-wise, there would be lots of denial.

Gumbo

ted1 wrote: »

Paying with cash is not illegal.

Don't forget about claiming your tax credits .
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/hri/

Dardania wrote: »

Came here to say this...

I don't think you can claim the HRI relief without the work been done by a registered contractor and been provided with a VAT invoice for the works done?

the_syco

iamtony wrote: »

Yes he has and I was wondering if I'm covered if it doesn't go through his books?

If it didn't go through his books, what evidence do you have that he did it, should something go wrong, and if you did have to bring him to court to rectify something, I wonder how the judge will view you helping the builder to avoid tax?

aaakev

kceire wrote: »

I don't think you can claim the HRI relief without the work been done by a registered contractor and been provided with a VAT invoice for the works done?

I wouldn't imagine so, you have to keep documents relating to a tax claim for 6 years iirc

RobAMerc

the_syco wrote: »

I wonder how the judge will view you helping the builder to avoid tax?

the judge couldnt give a flying f*** - it has nothing to do with him or the case and he is NOT supposed to let outside matters such as this influence his decision.
seriously, stop scare mongering here.

by the way I was chastised here th other day for saying I presumed the price I was quoted was for cash. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

iamtony

I'm going to tell him tomorrow that I will try to get your cash but I want a vat receipt for the work. I won't be claiming vat back or anything against it so it will stay in my drawer for safekeeping incase there is any comeback.
I'll tell him he can do whatever he likes with his copy of the invoice and the cash as that's none of my business.
I didn't agree to any cash job or anything like that so it's his problem.

BryanF

Thread closed - please PM if you want it moved to the revenue.ie forum