Recording incidents of harassment

bellissima

After much deliberation I decided to record an incident of harassment. The latter has been going on for a very long time. The recording is very clear, involving my own voice and those of a few others. It gives a very clear picture of what is going on. Naturally, I have let nobody hear it. I would only use it in self defence. Does anybody have any experience of a similar situation?

glued

You can't record people without their permission and use it against them. You need to establish all of the facts surrounding the incident and present your case to HR. I would seek advice before submitting such a claim to see if you have a case. Have any colleagues witnessed the alleged harassment?

Harassment can be a hard case to prove especially in an environment where the alleged harasser is a manger or works closely with HR. In smaller companies this happens more so as senior management and HR would tend to know each other very well.

Harassment grievances can often be very messy and drawn out as in the absence of a witness or written evidence it will just be your word against the harassers word.

I would sit down tonight and write everything down including the background story to each individual claim of harassment and present that information to a solicitor. They should then be able to guide you on how to proceed and even assist you on presenting your case to HR.

duploelabs

glued wrote: »

You can't record people without their permission and use it against them.

not to get too legal, but I did and it was allowed in court

TheDoc

duploelabs wrote: »

not to get too legal, but I did and it was allowed in court

In a case of harassment, or something else? There are a world of mitigating circumstances where recordings are not permissible in a labor dispute.

Best steps are always to make record whats going on from your side and go through designated procedures in accordance with your HR department, or management(assuming management arnt the issue).

duploelabs

TheDoc wrote: »

In a case of harassment, or something else? There are a world of mitigating circumstances where recordings are not permissible in a labor dispute.

Best steps are always to make record whats going on from your side and go through designated procedures in accordance with your HR department, or management(assuming management arnt the issue).

It was harassment and bullying

TheDoc

duploelabs wrote: »

It was harassment and bullying

Unusual

duploelabs

TheDoc wrote: »

Unusual

What makes you say that?

TheDoc

duploelabs wrote: »

What makes you say that?

It's just odd. I don't know the specifics of your case, but a lot of times you can find recordings made can have mitigating circumstances due to permission of recording, context of recoding, scenario, witness' etc.

Probably best for the OP to keep that to one side and go through the proper procedures, and maybe enquire hypothetically "What if I get a recording of what is happening" then OP will have have it clear how that recording can be used.

bellissima

I had serious doubts about engaging in any form of covert behaviour but when I listen to that recording I know that I did the right thing. The ugliest elements of bullying are all there-mobbing, humiliation, cynicism. If ever I had doubted my own perception I don't now. There is also a long meticulously documented written report. That could possibly be denied, but not this. Sound quality is clear as a bell. However, I don't want to go down the grievance path. Just wondering will my recording, covertly executed, be valid as a defence when the next onslaught comes, which, sadly, I know it will.

BabySlam

bellissima wrote: »

I had serious doubts about engaging in any form of covert behaviour but when I listen to that recording I know that I did the right thing. The ugliest elements of bullying are all there-mobbing, humiliation, cynicism. If ever I had doubted my own perception I don't now. There is also a long meticulously documented written report. That could possibly be denied, but not this. Sound quality is clear as a bell. However, I don't want to go down the grievance path. Just wondering will my recording, covertly executed, be valid as a defence when the next onslaught comes, which, sadly, I know it will.

A record of a single instance is probably not enough to evidence harassment or bullying, either of which is shown by multiple instances. You should diary every interaction that troubles you and let a trusted friend advise you if your perceptions are correct. If you want to proceed with a complaint against the offender, ask HR for a meeting and ask to bring somebody along (who will support you). Be professional about this. Sad to say, HR departments sometimes relocate the victim and not the offender!

bellissima

Because this is the public service, relocation is not what happens. This is something that has been going on for a very long time. Documentation is with the union. There are a number of options open to me. These procedures can be very unpleasant and stressful whether one is right or wrong. I have settled for keeping the bright side out and giving no cause for complaint. However, the nit-picking has worsened. This latest incident concerned the dress code. Our occupation is not one which is not prescriptive about dress. The normal common-sense rules apply.The incident which occurred was insulting and intimidating with no justification whatsoever. I have a photograph of what I was wearing at the particular moment, in addition to the recording. I should add that I did not have the recorder there for the purpose in question but for a language test. I saw the attack coming and I switched it on. The playback actually shocked me although I had been there. I do not regret the recording but have certain misgivings about its covert nature.

Eugene Norman

You can record in Ireland. It's "single person consent", although there are some restrictions on business etc.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/q-a-what-are-the-legal-implications-1.1740070

BabySlam

Eugene Norman wrote: »

You can record in Ireland. It's "single person consent", although there are some restrictions on business etc.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/q-a-what-are-the-legal-implications-1.1740070

With respect, I think the article relates to phone calls only. Even if a general right to record without consent was established, this would not necessarily translate to a right to broadcast the recording. As OP has engaged their union on the issue, it may be best for OP to be guided by the union who are probably up to date on the best way to pursue a complaint.

duploelabs

BabySlam wrote: »

With respect, I think the article relates to phone calls only. Even if a general right to record without consent was established, this would not necessarily translate to a right to broadcast the recording. As OP has engaged their union on the issue, it may be best for OP to be guided by the union who are probably up to date on the best way to pursue a complaint.

No it applies to recorded conversations also

Eugene Norman

duploelabs wrote: »

No it applies to recorded conversations also

Of course it does. Phone calls aren't automatically recorded so you need a recording device. Which records a conversation in any format and that's what's legal.

MarkAnthony

There is a difference between being allowed to do something and something having been done, being admissible.

There are fairly frequent examples at EAT of recordings (single consent) being allowed. You've very little to lose by recording something tbh.