Calves with brown coat

sucklerlover

About 3 weeks ago I injected my calves with copper as they had that notable brown tinge coat. I didn't do 10 as I taught I had more copper than I actually had.thing is there still the same and you can't tell the difference between those that got the copper and those that didn't. My pub vet was on about moyledium in the soil and not copper. Can anyone expand on this or share your expierence.
They are thriving but the coat just make them look unhealthy.

Count Mondego

sucklerlover wrote: »

About 3 weeks ago I injected my calves with copper as they had that notable brown tinge coat. I didn't do 10 as I taught I had more copper than I actually had.thing is there still the same and you can't tell the difference between those that got the copper and those that didn't. My pub vet was on about moyledium in the soil and not copper. Can anyone expand on this or share your expierence.
They are thriving but the coat just make them look unhealthy.

It's a metal in the soil that locks up the copper and renders it unavailable for the plant, so the grass or silage is not providing adequate levels of copper to the animal. I think the cold spring/early summer has caused a few cattle to delay coating, which can give them the redish look. Do them all with copper but there's also a chance that they are lacking another mineral such as selenium. Blood test will show up the deficiency.

eddiek

is it good practice to provide mineral licks in buckets in this case?

_Brian

Down the years here we would have had problems with stock(particularly noticeable on black stock) retaining hair. We would have injected copper with some success.
Also lost a heifer here three years ago with white muscle disease due to selenium diffeciency.

Spoke with vet about the problem. She said most irish soils are selenium diffecient. Also some areas are high in Iron which blocks copper absorption. We can see iron on some field drains running rusty.

She recommended bolus. Started using all trace from mayo healthcare, bolus which has selenium, molibium, copper, iodine. Have seen a noticeable change in animal condition and thrive.
We've been aiming to bolus animals six monthly for €6 a pop. Due again next month.

sucklerlover

_Brian wrote: »

Down the years here we would have had problems with stock(particularly noticeable on black stock) retaining hair. We would have injected copper with some success.
Also lost a heifer here three years ago with white muscle disease due to selenium diffeciency.

Spoke with vet about the problem. She said most irish soils are selenium diffecient. Also some areas are high in Iron which blocks copper absorption. We can see iron on some field drains running rusty.

She recommended bolus. Started using all trace from mayo healthcare, bolus which has selenium, molibium, copper, iodine. Have seen a noticeable change in animal condition and thrive.
We've been aiming to bolus animals six monthly for €6 a pop. Due again next month.

Thanks. That something I might try.just wondering did you ever do them and leave a control group not done to see the difference. It's just all these boluses and stuff are they really necessary when animals r on nice pasture.
I might do a little trial myself.

jimini0

_Brian wrote: »

Down the years here we would have had problems with stock(particularly noticeable on black stock) retaining hair. We would have injected copper with some success.
Also lost a heifer here three years ago with white muscle disease due to selenium diffeciency.

Spoke with vet about the problem. She said most irish soils are selenium diffecient. Also some areas are high in Iron which blocks copper absorption. We can see iron on some field drains running rusty.

She recommended bolus. Started using all trace from mayo healthcare, bolus which has selenium, molibium, copper, iodine. Have seen a noticeable change in animal condition and thrive.
We've been aiming to bolus animals six monthly for €6 a pop. Due again next month.

Have the same problem here. One cow still has winter coat. Was just goin to give copper supplement but once you mentioned the rust in drains the penny dropped. I'm useless as doseing cattle ie.more ends up on the ground than in the cows mouth. will have to get help. Is that bolus available in store? Or do the vets just supply it?.

mahoney_j

sucklerlover wrote: »

Thanks. That something I might try.just wondering did you ever do them and leave a control group not done to see the difference. It's just all these boluses and stuff are they really necessary when animals r on nice pasture.
I might do a little trial myself.

Nice pasture can only do so much for any animal and its quality varies from day to day and paddock to paddock ..all cows in calf heifers and calves are bloused here and there is a serious shine on them.there also on excellent grass for the most part.my are would be copper,selenium and iodine deficient

Cow Porter

our calves were foxy so had a drench here called elite bovine and gave them recommended dose 2 - 3 weeks ago, still foxy though. also are on calf nuts.

what bolus are you using mahoney?

ganmo

_Brian wrote: »

Down the years here we would have had problems with stock(particularly noticeable on black stock) retaining hair. We would have injected copper with some success.
Also lost a heifer here three years ago with white muscle disease due to selenium diffeciency.

Spoke with vet about the problem. She said most irish soils are selenium diffecient. Also some areas are high in Iron which blocks copper absorption. We can see iron on some field drains running rusty.

She recommended bolus. Started using all trace from mayo healthcare, bolus which has selenium, molibium, copper, iodine. Have seen a noticeable change in animal condition and thrive.
We've been aiming to bolus animals six monthly for €6 a pop. Due again next month.

selenium toxicity can be an issue too, but it is localised.
happens most often in fields beside rivers

blue5000

I use a small sheep copper bolus on calves. I think they are 6g. High molybdenum here too.

mahoney_j

Cow Porter wrote: »

our calves were foxy so had a drench here called elite bovine and gave them recommended dose 2 - 3 weeks ago, still foxy though. also are on calf nuts.

what bolus are you using mahoney?

Mayo healthcare calf bolus

Markcheese

Would there be much difference price wise between bolus - mineral lick buckets ,sea weed meal or just putting minerals in calf nuts...

mahoney_j

Markcheese wrote: »

Would there be much difference price wise between bolus - mineral lick buckets ,sea weed meal or just putting minerals in calf nuts...

Yes but haven't clue how much,with bolus every calf gets a bolus with x amount of vitimans and minerals in it ,with lick buckets etc it's more of a lottery

Grueller

Markcheese wrote: »

Would there be much difference price wise between bolus - mineral lick buckets ,sea weed meal or just putting minerals in calf nuts...

Bolus all the way here as you know that every animal is getting the bolus.m

_Brian

jimini0 wrote: »

Have the same problem here. One cow still has winter coat. Was just goin to give copper supplement but once you mentioned the rust in drains the penny dropped. I'm useless as doseing cattle ie.more ends up on the ground than in the cows mouth. will have to get help. Is that bolus available in store? Or do the vets just supply it?.

We have a local rep.
He gives the use if the applicator with the bolus and just drop it back when done. He'll also split a box rather than buying extra stuff to lie round and get damp or lost or go off.
If you ring them they will sort you out.

_Brian

ganmo wrote: »

selenium toxicity can be an issue too, but it is localised.
happens most often in fields beside rivers

I suppose. But the bolus is long acting over six months so I wouldn't worry about OD with it.

I did find a map online where you could check and see which areas are low/high in trace elements. But like so many other useful pages I forgot to bookmark the damn thing. Must google and see. Think it was a Teagasc site but not sure.

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

I suppose. But the bolus is long acting over six months so I wouldn't worry about OD with it.

I did find a map online where you could check and see which areas are low/high in trace elements. But like so many other useful pages I forgot to bookmark the damn thing. Must google and see. Think it was a Teagasc site but not sure.

Well we know our land is full of iron

ganmo

_Brian wrote: »

I suppose. But the bolus is long acting over six months so I wouldn't worry about OD with it.

I did find a map online where you could check and see which areas are low/high in trace elements. But like so many other useful pages I forgot to bookmark the damn thing. Must google and see. Think it was a Teagasc site but not sure.

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2011/822/Soil_Geochemical_AtlasofIreland.pdf

there is a newer soil survey, but i can't download it from the epa site

valtra2

I have been wondering about this for last few years and this year I gave started to do some research on this. My calf's have had same here with coats not shining and browis tint on them and even ears tips going grey. Took grass samples and had them analysed for minerals. They came back high in mn so it was locking up copper. Also low in few others. Sent on results to company that makes mineral lick buckets and they made up buckets to suit my needs. Have only started to use them so do not know any difference so far. Will get my pre calfer made up this way too. Will not know anything really till next year with fertility and thrive. Not weighting calf's at moment but hopefully get scales next year to start that.

Reggie.

valtra2 wrote: »

I have been wondering about this for last few years and this year I gave started to do some research on this. My calf's have had same here with coats not shining and browis tint on them and even ears tips going grey. Took grass samples and had them analysed for minerals. They came back high in mn so it was locking up copper. Also low in few others. Sent on results to company that makes mineral lick buckets and they made up buckets to suit my needs. Have only started to use them so do not know any difference so far. Will get my pre calfer made up this way too. Will not know anything really till next year with fertility and thrive. Not weighting calf's at moment but hopefully get scales next year to start that.

I just inject mine with copper every 6 weeks when I'm doing them

Base price

We use smalltrace boluses for the calves and alltrace for older animals.
We buy in bulk to keep the costs down.

Reggie.

Base price wrote: »

We use smalltrace boluses for the calves and alltrace for older animals.
We buy in bulk to keep the costs down.

What price are they per animal

Base price

Reggie. wrote: »

What price are they per animal

Smalltrace were €5/head. Alltrace were €5.75/head.

Reggie.

Base price wrote: »

Smalltrace were €5/head. Alltrace were €5.75/head.

Cheaper than a lick bucket. My 6 are going through a bucket a week at €15 a pop

_Brian

Reggie. wrote: »

Cheaper than a lick bucket. My 6 are going through a bucket a week at €15 a pop

its the old problem with buckets.. most are molasses based and they go mad through it, and then you wonder if they are all getting a fair share..


Also, and maybe it was said here but I saw someone mention that badgers love the molasses too and would it increase the risk of TB spread ??

mikeoh

any benefit to putting a sprinkle of bluestone in water troughs couple times a week

tomieen jones

mikeoh wrote: »

any benefit to putting a sprinkle of bluestone in water troughs couple times a week

I have done this last year as we are low in copper! No noticeable changes but I was using very small amounts

farawaygrass

Same story here with Brien costs. Rang two different vets tofay, one days go with all sure dose, the other said go with a good mineral dose that he has and if still not happy then go with blouses. Tbh I'm thinking of going straight with the bolus. What ye think of them for calves?

jimini0

There must be alot of cattle with in need of bolus. When I'm.driving to and from.work I'm always checking out other peoples stock. All I can see these days is animals with a bit of winter coat. Just now I seen 6 aax yearlings for sale on donedeal with same thing

Farrell

Base price wrote: »

We use smalltrace boluses for the calves and alltrace for older animals.
We buy in bulk to keep the costs down.

Where do you get small trace?
When you say older, as in 6m+ or 1yr+?

CloughCasey1

mikeoh wrote: »

any benefit to putting a sprinkle of bluestone in water troughs couple times a week

How much for standard size trough?

Cow Porter

mahoney_j wrote: »

Nice pasture can only do so much for any animal and its quality varies from day to day and paddock to paddock ..all cows in calf heifers and calves are bloused here and there is a serious shine on them.there also on excellent grass for the most part.my are would be copper,selenium and iodine deficient

Forgot to ask, what time did you do the bulling heifers?

Checked diary and they were done end of June with the drench and getting 1kg meal all the time, maybe need more time to get the coat through, waiting on vet to call to see his advice

mahoney_j

Cow Porter wrote: »

Forgot to ask, what time did you do the bulling heifers?

Checked diary and they were done end of June with the drench and getting 1kg meal all the time, maybe need more time to get the coat through, waiting on vet to call to see his advice

Do bulling heifers and cows first week of April ,a month before breeding and calves from 10 weeks old

patsy_mccabe

The other way to give minerals is through feeding meal. I start to feed the weanlings from 1st of September. I start to notice a change in colour soon after. All animals (not in calf) get a copper injection after turnout in the spring or just after calving, whichever is latest.
We have been injecting CU here for over 20 years. I'm not a fan of giving it to in-calf cows though. I try to avoid that.

restive

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The other way to give minerals is through feeding meal. I start to feed the weanlings from 1st of September. I start to notice a change in colour soon after. All animals (not in calf) get a copper injection after turnout in the spring or just after calving, whichever is latest.
We have been injecting CU here for over 20 years. I'm not a fan of giving it to in-calf cows though. I try to avoid that.

Is their a withdrawal period after injecting copper? When mixing through meal, does the copper come in sachets or do you break open the boluses?

patsy_mccabe

restive wrote: »

Is their a withdrawal period after injecting copper? When mixing through meal, does the copper come in sachets or do you break open the boluses?

Withdrawal period is 30 days from what I remember. I don't mix copper through meal.
It comes added as standard from local COOP.

Tyson Lannister

I had a very good PT weanling last year with a brown coat so I gave him a copper injection into the muscle. My vet later told me I should not have given it in back quarter as copper injections can easily turn septic.

patsy_mccabe

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

I had a very good PT weanling last year with a brown coat so I gave him a copper injection into the muscle. My vet later told me I should not have given it in back quarter as copper injections can easily turn septic.

I always pull the skin to one side, as per instructions, when injecting. Never had a reaction when this was done. Always into the neck too. Not easy to do in an ordinary crush, with heads moving about.

mikeoh

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

How much for standard size trough?

I put a tablespoon per trough once every 10 days ..if nothing else it keeps the trough crystal clean!!!.....................is there too much being made of black cattle with rusty coats........every black animal's coat turns brown before shedding , ask anyone who ever owned a greyhound!!.....I be more concerned about cattle that don't loose their yearly coat, not thriving and infertile........remember this is the time of year for coating with the warmer temp. do the lads with charlois think they have no problems with copper def.............vet said to only inject copper in the neak as it can form a big lump and the neak is the cheapest cut of meat to sacrifice

_Brian

mikeoh wrote: »

I put a tablespoon per trough once every 10 days ..if nothing else it keeps the trough crystal clean!!!.....................is there too much being made of black cattle with rusty coats........every black animal's coat turns brown before shedding , ask anyone who ever owned a greyhound!!.....I be more concerned about cattle that don't loose their yearly coat, not thriving and infertile........remember this is the time of year for coating with the warmer temp. do the lads with charlois think they have no problems with copper def.............vet said to only inject copper in the neak as it can form a big lump and the neak is the cheapest cut of meat to sacrifice

The retained coat is a sign of copper deficiency, its not the only impact.
I suppose we all aim for the best possible thrive, there is no point in making top silage and bursting yourself managing grass, and paying for meals if the animal can't utilise it 100%

White Clover

mikeoh wrote: »

I put a tablespoon per trough once every 10 days ..if nothing else it keeps the trough crystal clean!!!.....................is there too much being made of black cattle with rusty coats........every black animal's coat turns brown before shedding , ask anyone who ever owned a greyhound!!.....I be more concerned about cattle that don't loose their yearly coat, not thriving and infertile........remember this is the time of year for coating with the warmer temp. do the lads with charlois think they have no problems with copper def.............vet said to only inject copper in the neak as it can form a big lump and the neak is the cheapest cut of meat to sacrifice

My vet said the same. Use a long needle and inject down from the top iykwim