Redundancy when dispute over start date?

PetiteandSweet

I'm in a strange situation and not sure if I am entitled to redundancy or not so someone might be able to help.

I began working as a consultant to a new business in February 2013. In July 2013 I became an employee. I have this date in writing from the project manager at the time, cc'd to the company accountant. I was working full time in July 2013 with lots of witnesses and was featured on television in this role I was employed in and in another promo feature for the business. That month I was paid my first salary rate rather than consultancy fees (the hours I worked would have made it huge and my wage was very small).
Now that I've been made redundant I've found out I was only registered as an employee from August 2013 and entitled to nothing (they weren't big into payslips, I had to always try to chase them up from an outside accountant and I trusted my employer so I didn't query this sooner.

There are a whole load of other things I won't go into that makes this all even worse.

Anyway. My boss is saying if I complain or tell anyone that he laid me off instead of pretending I've just quit, that he'll give me a bad reference.

I'm pretty screwed here because I need a new job, I've had a couple of good interviews, and am expecting them to look for references soon but I'm also terrified that I won't get these so feel I should fight for something if I'm entitled to it. I'd rather hold off a few days and see where I stand legally but my boss told me this evening he wants me to confirm that if I get holiday pay that I won't ever look for anything else so it's sort of something I need to decide by tomorrow.

Anyone have any idea where I might stand on the redundancy when I was clearly employed in the role from July 2013 even if he didn't register me as an employee until later?

Stheno

What are you exact start and end dates as an employee?

PetiteandSweet

I was told the 1st July 2013 and the 9th July 2013 and I worked at an employee rate that month (plus a hell of a lot of overtime) and was featured in the media in my role during that month.
but just found out today I wasn't registered as an employee until the 1st August 2013 so as far as revenue are concerned it's the 1st August 2013 and 9th July 2015

Gmaximum

Sounds like you have proof that you were employed but I don't know enough to offer an opinion on where you actually

I'd imagine if you reported the issue to revenue it would result in an audit which would probably turn up this and other issues for your former employers.

I wouldn't be too worried about a reference. If it's for consultancy work the PM can help you. If it's an employment reference use someone else in the business

PetiteandSweet

I was told the 1st July 2013 was my start date and the 9th July 2015 my end date. I worked at an employee rate in July 2013 (plus a hell of a lot of overtime) and was featured in the media in my role during that month.
but just found out today I wasn't registered as an employee until the 1st August 2013 so as far as revenue are concerned it's the 1st August 2013 and 9th July 2015

Stheno

PetiteandSweet wrote: »

I was told the 1st July 2013 and the 9th July 2013 and I worked at an employee rate that month (plus a hell of a lot of overtime) and was featured in the media in my role during that month.
but just found out today I wasn't registered as an employee until the 1st August 2013 so as far as revenue are concerned it's the 1st August 2013 and 9th July 2015

Were you paid on August first for July?

You just about qualify for redundancy based on the July start

Are you still working there for this week?

Did you not get a contract with a start date?

PetiteandSweet

Stheno wrote: »

Were you paid on August first for July?

You just about qualify for redundancy based on the July start

Are you still working there for this week?

Did you not get a contract with a start date?

I wasn't given a contract until the 22nd July with the 1st August as a start date. But I was told this was just because they couldn't get the to the outside person who was looking over the contract to approve it before then and they couldn't back date it but it didn't change the fact that I started on the 1st July. So I'm probably screwed really. I'm too trusting and naive or *was*

I was paid on the 31st July by cheque for July and it was an amount that was equal to my wages for that month (after tax) and some items I'd paid for for the business as the company credit card wasn't ready yet. Had I still been doing a consultancy rate that month, it would have been a couple of thousand more. I worked about 160 hours that month and up to then I had been doing 16-20 hours a month consultancy so it made sense they wanted to pay me a salary wage rather than consultancy fee.

I think I'm probably just an idiot for being trusting and not checking things out properly now that I've put it all down in writing.

Stheno

PetiteandSweet wrote: »

I wasn't given a contract until the 22nd July with the 1st August as a start date. But I was told this was just because they couldn't get the to the outside person who was looking over the contract to approve it before then and they couldn't back date it but it didn't change the fact that I started on the 1st July. So I'm probably screwed really. I'm too trusting and naive or *was*

I was paid on the 31st July by cheque for July and it was an amount that was equal to my wages for that month (after tax) and some items I'd paid for for the business as the company credit card wasn't ready yet. Had I still been doing a consultancy rate that month, it would have been a couple of thousand more. I worked about 160 hours that month and up to then I had been doing 16-20 hours a month consultancy so it made sense they wanted to pay me a salary wage rather than consultancy fee.

I think I'm probably just an idiot for being trusting and not checking things out properly now that I've put it all down in writing.

Yeah, you need to have something that proves you were in employment prior to July 9th 2013 so the entitlement to redundancy after 104 weeks kicks in

IN this case, it seems you don't so I'm not sure that you can make a case for it.

PetiteandSweet

Stheno wrote: »

Yeah, you need to have something that proves you were in employment prior to July 9th 2013 so the entitlement to redundancy after 104 weeks kicks in

IN this case, it seems you don't so I'm not sure that you can make a case for it.

I did a few media interviews in the role prior to the 9th July and the title used was the one I was employed as rather than a consultancy one but I doubt that sort of thing stands up. Thanks for the responses.

Stheno

PetiteandSweet wrote: »

I did a few media interviews in the role prior to the 9th July and the title used was the one I was employed as rather than a consultancy one but I doubt that sort of thing stands up. Thanks for the responses.

I'm wondering if the credit card purchases you made would prove it, but if you did the same as a consultant it may not?

PetiteandSweet

Stheno wrote: »

I'm wondering if the credit card purchases you made would prove it, but if you did the same as a consultant it may not?

I would have made the same sort of purchases when doing consultancy. I'm finished there now anyway since Wednesday evening. Just waiting on my P45 and holiday pay now. Slightly worried I'll have to fight for the latter given the way things are going but glad to be out of there and hoping one of the other places I've interviewed for will come through now.

Thanks for all the responses to my first boards post

Mrs OBumble

PetiteandSweet wrote: »

I did a few media interviews in the role prior to the 9th July and the title used was the one I was employed as rather than a consultancy one but I doubt that sort of thing stands up. Thanks for the responses.

This ain't legal advice, I'm not a lawyer ... but you might just have enough ammunition to get some kind of out-of-court settlement, rather than taking a public dispute about your entitlement to redundancy to the Labour Court.

Of course you would need to pay for a decent-enough lawyer, and also to be willing to have the fight. (Dion't underestimate how stressful that could be.)

But given that it looks like they're trying to screw you with redundancy happening on the last possible day that they avoid a payment, it might even be that a settlement for going without the fight is worth more than the redundancy would be.

If you want to explore that route, it's lawyer time.

PetiteandSweet

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This ain't legal advice, I'm not a lawyer ... but you might just have enough ammunition to get some kind of out-of-court settlement, rather than taking a public dispute about your entitlement to redundancy to the Labour Court.

Of course you would need to pay for a decent-enough lawyer, and also to be willing to have the fight. (Dion't underestimate how stressful that could be.)

But given that it looks like they're trying to screw you with redundancy happening on the last possible day that they avoid a payment, it might even be that a settlement for going without the fight is worth more than the redundancy would be.

If you want to explore that route, it's lawyer time.

Thanks for the advice. I don't think I want to deal with all the stress and I always think that initiating any legal action against employers looks bad to future employers so it makes me nervous.

If I can just get my holiday pay (still waiting, fingers crossed I don't have to fight for that!), I can get by until I have a new job and I'll leave it there.