Immersion controls - what do I need

Ciaran_B · 05-07-2015 12:12pm #1

Hi there,

I’ve been living in my house for almost a year and the Immersion Heater Timer box has been working fine up to last week. Last week all the lights went off in the box, it’s probably the battery but I’m not going to take it apart to check it. I can still heat water by turning the immersion on using the switch on the left.

What I would like is to replace both boxes in the picture below with a single box, one that can turn the immersion on and have it on a timer. Is that possible? And if so, what am I looking for? Also is it possible to get one with built in wireless controls?

Thanks.

beanie10 · 06-07-2015 10:45pm

I dont understand if the time clock has stopped working how the immersion is still working. Maybe it was only controlling the one of the elements?

Im not aware of a single unit that will control a dual immersion unless you use an Economy 7. But this would not be ideal as you cannot alter time settings for bath element and sink element only work as a boost option.

What do you mean by wireless controls?

dazed+confused · 06-07-2015 10:50pm

You can connect this to a Climote, which would give you control of your immersion from anywhere. As beanie10 said though it sounds like there's something not quite right with the way it's wired, you will need to get an electrician to look at it. I can't give you advice that could potentially lead to a fault or worse.

coylemj · 07-07-2015 10:19am

dazed+confused wrote: »

You can connect this to a Climote, which would give you control of your immersion from anywhere.

I'm also interested in being able to remotely control my immersion but that Climote website only talks about central heating - an immersion timer has to handle a far bigger current (amps) than what a CH timer has to manage so I doubt if it's up to the job.

dazed+confused wrote: »

As beanie10 said though it sounds like there's something not quite right with the way it's wired, you will need to get an electrician to look at it. I can't give you advice that could potentially lead to a fault or worse.

There's nothing wrong with the way it's wired, the live feed obviously goes through the timer first and from there to the regular immersion dual switch, that's how my Sangamo immersion timer is wired. It means that you have to leave the manual switch permanently set to 'On', you manually select Sink or Bath and let the timer do the rest. If you go away for a day or so you just flip the switch to off.

dazed+confused · 07-07-2015 1:43pm

coylemj wrote: »

An immersion timer has to handle a far bigger current (amps) than what a CH timer has to manage so I doubt if it's up to the job.

You doubt, I know! There are lots of different devices in this range and I have installed many of them. You are correct in saying that you would not use the same device for controlling an immersion as you would a boiler, horses for courses.

coylemj wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with the way it's wired

You have no way of telling how it's wired. Again, better to err on the side of caution rather than speculate when it comes to electricity.

Bruthal · 07-07-2015 2:00pm

beanie10 wrote: »

I dont understand if the time clock has stopped working how the immersion is still working. Maybe it was only controlling the one of the elements?

The timer would have off, on, timed selections.

Switch it to on and it will supply the immersion switch, without the timer actually working properly.

coylemj · 07-07-2015 2:36pm

dazed+confused wrote: »

You doubt, I know! There are lots of different devices in this range and I have installed many of them. You are correct in saying that you would not use the same device for controlling an immersion as you would a boiler, horses for courses.

But the Climote device you recommend for the OP appears to be designed only for controlling a CH system

As in, on their website they clearly show an old-fashioned CH timer with the 30 minute plastic pegs being replaced with the Climote box, there is no mention of a device for an immersion. http://www.climote.ie/products/#thirty-minute-install

If they do sell a timer device for an immersion I will definitely buy one, I've been waiting for such function (remote control via an app) for ages.

Bruthal · 07-07-2015 2:44pm

A device only capable of handling small loads, can easily be setup to switch larger ones, using contactors.

beanie10 · 07-07-2015 6:49pm

Bruthal wrote: »

The timer would have off, on, timed selections.

Switch it to on and it will supply the immersion switch, without the timer actually working properly.

I dont know. It appears to be a digital time clock. Always thought the circuit board would have to be operational for it to switch contacts. Maybe its just the screen thats faulty.

Ciaran_B · 07-07-2015 7:52pm

beanie10 wrote: »

I dont understand if the time clock has stopped working how the immersion is still working. Maybe it was only controlling the one of the elements?

Im not aware of a single unit that will control a dual immersion unless you use an Economy 7. But this would not be ideal as you cannot alter time settings for bath element and sink element only work as a boost option.

What do you mean by wireless controls?

Something that I could control over the internet. I'm not sure if sure a thing exists.

dazed+confused wrote: »

You can connect this to a Climote, which would give you control of your immersion from anywhere. As beanie10 said though it sounds like there's something not quite right with the way it's wired, you will need to get an electrician to look at it. I can't give you advice that could potentially lead to a fault or worse.

Oh yeah, I'm not touching it myself. I'm going to get a proper qualified person in.

I'm just not sure what the proper name for the Timeguard box is. An immersion heater timer?

coylemj wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with the way it's wired, the live feed obviously goes through the timer first and from there to the regular immersion dual switch, that's how my Sangamo immersion timer is wired. It means that you have to leave the manual switch permanently set to 'On', you manually select Sink or Bath and let the timer do the rest. If you go away for a day or so you just flip the switch to off.

That's pretty much the way I was operating it. Leave the Sink set to On then use the timer when required.

beanie10 wrote: »

I dont know. It appears to be a digital time clock. Always thought the circuit board would have to be operational for it to switch contacts. Maybe its just the screen thats faulty.

From reading a bit about these units, there is a battery inside it. But it's all connected into the wiring in the house, I don't think there's a way to get into the box without turning the power off to the room.

Thanks for the replies.

Bruthal · 07-07-2015 8:00pm

beanie10 wrote: »

I dont know. It appears to be a digital time clock. Always thought the circuit board would have to be operational for it to switch contacts. Maybe its just the screen thats faulty.

The off-timed-on switch is just a manual switch that switches the timeclock controlled contacts out of the circuit for always off, into the circuit for timer control, or bypasses them for always on.

Bruthal · 07-07-2015 8:16pm

Ciaran_B wrote: »

Something that I could control over the internet. I'm not sure if sure a thing exists.
.

It does. I have my gas heating on such a setup, and a few lights and sockets. Can turn it on with phone, or run it with timers setup in the app etc, or for any length of time then turn off etc.

dingding · 07-07-2015 8:37pm

I have my climote conneccted to a two way switch. When it is switched to one position it brings on a contactor which brings on my willis heater (immersion).
When it is connected the otherway, it brings in a contactor which brings on my boiler and opens a motorised valve to bring on the oil fired heating.

dingding · 07-07-2015 8:43pm

http://www.horstmann.co.uk/files/1213/9867/2106/installer_guide_economy_7_quartz_E7Q.pdf

Would one of these timers above suit.

Bath = off-peak
Sink = Boost

Ciaran_B · 07-07-2015 9:02pm

Bruthal wrote: »

It does. I have my gas heating on such a setup, and a few lights and sockets. Can turn it on with phone, or run it with timers setup in the app etc, or for any length of time then turn off etc.

Interesting. What are you using for this?

Cheers.

Bruthal · 07-07-2015 9:25pm

Ciaran_B wrote: »

Interesting. What are you using for this?

Cheers.

Lightwaverf system.

For the gas heating I am using one of their relays(4th in list on the link) which is designed for opening and closing items, as it has 2 way switching, and off. I use 2 of them, one for a radiator zone motorized valve, and the other for the cylinder motorized valve.

The first item in the list is the main link that connects to your router.

Immersion controls - what do I need

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