After a third runway is operational at Heathrow BA won’t need DUB

Impetus

The “Airports Commission” has just come out with a report stating that a third runway at Heathrow is a “no brainer” and a far better solution than one at Gatwick. This proposed northwest runway will run parallel to the E30 (Brits refer to it as the “M4”) to the south of the motorway. Its route is designed to avoid Conservative consultancies (eg Maidenhead, Uxbridge, and others to the south).

Whenever this project is completed, BA will no longer need a transit base at Dublin airport. BA will have succeeded in wrecking the airport in terms of overloading for about ten years, and then any facilities built for BA’s artificial traffic will be redundant. I arrived in Dublin airport T1 the other day and during the long walk along the corridor (expensively glazed to prevent incoming and outgoing passengers mixing – something they avoided doing in Schiphol and the new T1 in Barcelona, and T2 in Munich, and FRA to allow on/off connections). I visited several toilets to inspect. They were filthy, with deep dirt – not something for a rub of a mop. None of the hand dryers (poor, ugly copies of the Mitsubishi Jet Towel dryer) worked. The toilets on the airside that I inspected were even filthier.

Compare and contrast with the toilets in any large European airport – eg CDG, Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, and Amsterdam – all of which have clean toilets. If the airport management company can’t keep the toilets clean with current PAX volumes, what hope have they for the decade or so BA might be pushing tens of thousands of the great unwashed through the place?

Crumbs868

Is your rant at Dublin airport, T2 or BA? Once you got up and running I lost track.

I agree about the crappy hand driers but I've never had any issues with unhygienic toilets in T2.

Really don't see what your issue is with segregating incoming and outgoing passengers. How does this affect you?

Cookiemunster

What a completely bizarre rant. BA are neither building a new runway at LHR nor building new facilities at DUB. That would be down to the airport operators not the airline (and why would the DAA build temporary facilites for BA?) Also just because a new runway at LHR was recommended doesn't mean it'll actually get built. There is massive opposition to it in the UK.

As for the bit on toilets..........

coylemj

Impetus wrote: »

This proposed northwest runway will run parallel to the E30 (Brits refer to it as the “M4”) to the south of the motorway.

To answer one of your crazy prejudices - the road from Wexford to Dublin is the E01, the stupid Irish Micks refer to it as the "N11".

Impetus

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Is your rant at Dublin airport, T2 or BA? Once you got up and running I lost track.

I agree about the crappy hand driers but I've never had any issues with unhygienic toilets in T2.

Really don't see what your issue is with segregating incoming and outgoing passengers. How does this affect you?

I made no mention of T2, where the toilets are adequate, aside from the odd design defect - again hand dryer related.

In a hub airport it is often convenient to get off one aircraft and on another, especially if the connection is tight and one only has hand baggage. Eg travelling Lufthansa from Malta to anywhere, you typically get all your boarding passes at first check in at Malta to the ultimate destination. At Munich Airport T2 shopping mall you can view the latest Audi specked out with all the options or have lunch or a beer. If one was to use Dublin as a hub, you would spend this time in passport queues, and following endless corridors in one of Europe's worst designed airports.

I don't want to see it get any worse by adding a non-organic growth factor comprising thousands of extra passengers to the mix, thanks to forced inter-lining by BA or whatever. Also T2 is working to near full capacity at peak times, and you have abridge problems during windy days. In Munich, if you have checked baggage, and your aircraft is running late, they make sure your checked bag makes the second flight if you do. All they require is 45 minutes between STA and STD. If the time available turns out to be less than that, there is a system to deal with it.

This is not a "rant". I am simply pointing out the realities as one sees them, from the perspective of someone who lives on the continent.

davo2001

Impetus wrote: »

I visited several toilets to inspect. They were filthy, with deep dirt – not something for a rub of a mop. None of the hand dryers (poor, ugly copies of the Mitsubishi Jet Towel dryer) worked.

Jess OP, you sound like great craic!

Impetus

coylemj wrote: »

To answer one of your crazy prejudices - the road from Wexford to Dublin is the E01, the stupid Irish Micks refer to it as the "N11".

Quite. Call it "British Isles" insularity.

Impetus

Cookiemunster wrote: »

What a completely bizarre rant. BA are neither building a new runway at LHR nor building new facilities at DUB. That would be down to the airport operators not the airline (and why would the DAA build temporary facilites for BA?) Also just because a new runway at LHR was recommended doesn't mean it'll actually get built. There is massive opposition to it in the UK.

As for the bit on toilets..........

Stop twisting things. I did suggest not suggest that BA was building a new runway anywhere. Airlines are not in the business of building runways. Cameron had an over my dead body message before the election. He appears to have completely changed his tune since.

Impetus

davo2001 wrote: »

Jess OP, you sound like great craic!

If you were responsible for toilet cleaning and I ran the airport I don't think you would call me that...

coylemj

Impetus wrote: »

Quite. Call it "British Isles" insularity.

Practising 'insularity' with road numbering is a luxury you can afford when you live on an island.

LXFlyer

Impetus wrote: »

I made no mention of T2, where the toilets are adequate, aside from the odd design defect - again hand dryer related.

In a hub airport it is often convenient to get off one aircraft and on another, especially if the connection is tight and one only has hand baggage. Eg travelling Lufthansa from Malta to anywhere, you typically get all your boarding passes at first check in at Malta to the ultimate destination. At Munich Airport T2 shopping mall you can view the latest Audi specked out with all the options or have lunch or a beer. If one was to use Dublin as a hub, you would spend this time in passport queues, and following endless corridors in one of Europe's worst designed airports.

I don't want to see it get any worse by adding a non-organic growth factor comprising thousands of extra passengers to the mix, thanks to forced inter-lining by BA or whatever. Also T2 is working to near full capacity at peak times, and you have abridge problems during windy days. In Munich, if you have checked baggage, and your aircraft is running late, they make sure your checked bag makes the second flight if you do. All they require is 45 minutes between STA and STD. If the time available turns out to be less than that, there is a system to deal with it.

This is not a "rant". I am simply pointing out the realities as one sees them, from the perspective of someone who lives on the continent.

What airlines use Terminal 1 at Dublin as a hub?

Answer - None.

There are transfer facilities in Terminal 2 (which is an Aer Lingus hub) that bypass the passport queues.

I'd imagine if EI were to join IAG, then BA would switch to T2 (although might still use the 3XX gates).

GBX

Impetus wrote: »

Stop twisting things. I did suggest not suggest that BA was building a new runway anywhere. Airlines are not in the business of building runways. Cameron had an over my dead body message before the election. He appears to have completely changed his tune since.

Did you suggest or not?

martingriff

Impetus wrote: »

Stop twisting things. I did suggest not suggest that BA was building a new runway anywhere. Airlines are not in the business of building runways. Cameron had an over my dead body message before the election. He appears to have completely changed his tune since.

??????????????????

OP I am just wondering what is you tread about. Is it A) if Heathow get another runway Dublin is up the swanny, People chose whee to fly into depending on the toilets. I do not get where you are coming from.

GBX

martingriff wrote: »

??????????????????

My quote was based on the OP previous post. Of which, none of his posts in this thread make sense anyway.

Jamie2k9

They will tell IB and MAD to feck off as well, with your logic.....

martingriff

GBX wrote: »

My quote was based on the OP previous post. Of which, none of his posts in this thread make sense anyway.

Agreed

martinsvi

last time I visited toilets in FRA (two months ago), not only they were dirty, they were covered in racist writings on the stall walls insulting americans, turks and what not, never seen that anywhere else

L1011

This'd be the third runway that won't get built in the first place.

Current UK govt will ignore the report and simply not authorise it.

If it is ever built the capacity will be short lived and LHR will still suffer curfews.

As for the hand dryer rant - is the OP an irritated toilet cleaner?

Impetus

lxflyer wrote: »

What airlines use Terminal 1 at Dublin as a hub?

Answer - None.

There are transfer facilities in Terminal 2 (which is an Aer Lingus hub) that bypass the passport queues.

I'd imagine if EI were to join IAG, then BA would switch to T2 (although might still use the 3XX gates).

Anybody using FR is forced to hub via T1. One news gets out of travel via Aer Lingus on a BA ticket via Dublin gets out, you will have many people opting for Ryanair, who might better serve their point of origin, using Ryanair as a feeder to an EI trans-Atlantic flight.

I have been on Aer Lingus A320 flights which had to depart from T1, presumably no gates available at T2. The number of gates, baggage handling system, and much of the rest of the infrastructure in T2 has no room to grow. If you extended T2 lengthwise, you come in conflict with the runways. If you put a T shaped extension, you have extra aircraft movements that would clog up the taxi ways.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Dublin+Airport/@53.4228283,-6.245708,1039m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x486711be6993192f:0x55121bb5b725f355

I wouldn't be surprised if trans Atlantic flights from Ireland to N. America double in price - taking into account "BA price inflation" and higher yield levels on EI.

Jamie2k9

I have been on Aer Lingus A320 flights which had to depart from T1, presumably no gates available at T2. The number of gates, baggage handling system, and much of the rest of the infrastructure in T2 has no room to grow. If you extended T2 lengthwise, you come in conflict with the runways. If you put a T shaped extension, you have extra aircraft movements that would clog up the taxi ways.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Dub...121bb5b725f355

I wouldn't be surprised if trans Atlantic flights from Ireland to N. America double in price - taking into account "BA price inflation" and higher yield levels on EI.

wrong, wrong, wrong T2 facilities were build to be expanded when Pier F is required including baggage systems, check in hall etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if trans Atlantic flights from Ireland to N. America double in price - taking into account "BA price inflation" and higher yield levels on EI.

market will not allow that to happen and BA know this.

LXFlyer

Impetus wrote: »

Anybody using FR is forced to hub via T1. One news gets out of travel via Aer Lingus on a BA ticket via Dublin gets out, you will have many people opting for Ryanair, who might better serve their point of origin, using Ryanair as a feeder to an EI trans-Atlantic flight.

I have been on Aer Lingus A320 flights which had to depart from T1, presumably no gates available at T2. The number of gates, baggage handling system, and much of the rest of the infrastructure in T2 has no room to grow. If you extended T2 lengthwise, you come in conflict with the runways. If you put a T shaped extension, you have extra aircraft movements that would clog up the taxi ways.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Dublin+Airport/@53.4228283,-6.245708,1039m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x486711be6993192f:0x55121bb5b725f355

I wouldn't be surprised if trans Atlantic flights from Ireland to N. America double in price - taking into account "BA price inflation" and higher yield levels on EI.

I doubt too many passengers dogleg via Dublin on Ryanair? But even if they do, they are on separate flights, as they only operate point-to-point, and consequently they don't offer a "hub" facility.


Some EI flights do depart from the 3XX gates, particularly in the early morning and late evening, but departing/arriving passengers are processed through T2 and not T1.

Impetus

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

wrong, wrong, wrong T2 facilities were build to be expanded when Pier F is required.

Where does pier F fit in the jigsaw puzzle please.?

Impetus

lxflyer wrote: »

I doubt too many passengers dogleg via Dublin on Ryanair? But even if they do, they are on separate flights, as they only operate point-to-point, and consequently they don't offer a "hub" facility.


Some EI flights do depart from the 3XX gates, particularly in the early morning and late evening, but departing/arriving passengers are processed through T2 and not T1.

They are not inter-lining - but they do take up resources to feed, toilets, move between terminals, passport and US immigration etc.

Jamie2k9

Impetus wrote: »

Where does pier F fit in the jigsaw puzzle please.?

Where cargo area is, I believe 12 short haul gates. Check in hall can expanded as foundations are in place and baggage belts can as well. T2 is not ideally located but room to cater for EI for a long time.

T1 is used in mornings to EI because they have around 29 aircraft on ground before anything departs. Would be a waste of money catering for those for 2 hours a day.

L1011

Impetus wrote: »

They are not inter-lining - but they do take up resources to feed, toilets, move between terminals, passport and US immigration etc.

You do seen rather obsessed with toilets

LXFlyer

Impetus wrote: »

They are not inter-lining - but they do take up resources to feed, toilets, move between terminals, passport and US immigration etc.

And what has any of that to do with having departing/arriving passengers being segregated?


The segregation of arriving and departing passengers is ultimately is a decision taken by Irish immigration authorities to minimise the risk of someone arriving from a non-CTA destination and then boarding a CTA flight without having proper visas etc.


Otherwise the set up at Heathrow Terminals 2 and 5 would have to be implemented with photos being taken before security and at the gates.


Full segregation is also to be implemented at the 2XX gates as part of the airport development plan.

Impetus

L1011 wrote: »

You do seen rather obsessed with toilets

After the filth I saw in Dublin last Sunday, they do send a loud and clear message to the travelling public. It involves the design (urinal design) and the quality of the ceramics to help reduce the amount of cleaning required. Ireland has some of the dirtiest public toilets in Europe - eg in pubs, hotels, department stores, shopping centres etc. And there are many establishments with clean toilets. The latter give a good impression to the customer that the rest of the place is well run too etc.

The floor (which is new) on the long walk from the FR aircraft to the baggage hall was filthy, heavily marked with rubber wheel marks. Bad floor covering design and poor standard of cleaning.

Crumbs868

L1011 wrote: »

You do seen rather obsessed with toilets

He is spot on about the hand driers they are terrible. Some architect got his way

Impetus

lxflyer wrote: »

And what has any of that to do with having departing/arriving passengers being segregated?


The segregation of arriving and departing passengers is ultimately is a decision taken by Irish immigration authorities to minimise the risk of someone arriving from a non-CTA destination and then boarding a CTA flight without having proper visas etc.


Otherwise the set up at Heathrow Terminals 2 and 5 would have to be implemented with photos being taken before security and at the gates.


Full segregation is also to be implemented at the 2XX gates as part of the airport development plan.

What CTA please? When there were flights from Cork to Dublin, the PAX had to go through passport control at DUB. There is no free movement for anybody at Dublin airport. On the continent, you have a group of Schengen gates with no controls, and a group of non-Schengen gates for flights from Ireland, Russia, ISIS, etc.

LXFlyer

Impetus wrote: »

What CTA please? When there were flights from Cork to Dublin, the PAX had to go through passport control at DUB. There is no free movement for anybody at Dublin airport. On the continent, you have a group of Schengen gates with no controls, and a group of non-Schengen gates for flights from Ireland, Russia, ISIS, etc.

I agree about the domestic flights. But the set up at Dublin is totally down to the Irish immigration authorities - take it up with them.

But if you arrive in Dublin at T2, which is the hub, and are transferring to another flight, you do not have to go through immigration.

arubex

Impetus wrote: »

None of the hand dryers (poor, ugly copies of the Mitsubishi Jet Towel dryer) worked.

Well I'm a sucker, I was persuaded by advertising that it was Mr Dyson that 'invented' the jet hand-dryer but those crazy Japanese beat him to it by well over a decade:

In 1993, the first Jet Towel, JT-16A is released after experimenting with more than 50 different prototypes. Operating at 1600 watts, the first Jet Towel introduces the world to the concept of dual-jet hand drying, but operates at an uncomfortable 71 dB.

http://www.mitsubishijettowel.com/history.html

The current eighth-generation dryer uses two 400 km / h sheets of air to dry hands. [Insert joke about that being faster than a CityJet 146.]

L1011

If you don't know what the CTA is, I'd suggest to everyone else that you clearly don't understand anything relevant to this topic at all. Toilets, hand dryers and floor coverings aren't relevant

Impetus

lxflyer wrote: »

I agree about the domestic flights. But the set up at Dublin is totally down to the Irish immigration authorities - take it up with them.

But if you arrive in Dublin at T2, which is the hub, and are transferring to another flight, you do not have to go through immigration.

Surely any flight to/from the EU is a domestic flight? As is a flight within the 26 member Schengen zone. Ireland is giving into British state racism by not abiding by Schengen rules. Schengen is far tighter on its control over foreigners from non-schengen area than the so called "CTA". The British system has only picked up one "guilty" person coming into the Kingdom from a Schengen country since 1995. Are all these queues and hassle and delays worth it for catching one person in 20 years? Not to mind the cost of the inspection system and the time cost of the PAXs.

LXFlyer

Impetus wrote: »

Surely any flight to/from the EU is a domestic flight? As is a flight within the 26 member Schengen zone. Ireland is giving into British state racism by not abiding by Schengen rules. Schengen is far tighter on its control over foreigners from non-schengen area than the so called "CTA". The British system has only picked up one "guilty" person coming into the Kingdom from a Schengen country since 1995. Are all these queues and hassle and delays worth it for catching one person in 20 years? Not to mind the cost of the inspection system and the time cost of the PAXs.

The CTA only applies to Irish and UK citizens - hence the checks at Dublin.


The only flights that should be bypassing immigration are Irish domestic flights.


Again - take your beef up with the Irish immigration authorities.


It has nothing to do with a 3rd runway at LHR or sanitary facilities in Dublin.

eatmyshorts

Worst OP since owenc got banned.

Strumms

I flew back from the South Of France after spending a lovley week.. full of sunshine.. beaches.. beer..fantastic food..what a week. Or so we thought... we landed back in Dublin and i went for a piss and the sight that greeted me was one of horror... inadequate hand dryers.. poorly designed urinals... it ruined the whole holiday.. i told the missues and next year we are going to spend two weeks in Leitrim...

Ohh and op congrats on just about the most disjointed pointless rant since i checked after hours last night.

River Song

Suggested reading, OP:

http://www.aviationreg.ie/_fileupload/image/2009-03-02_daa_cip_2010-2014.pdf

FWVT

I still have no idea what this thread is about

eatmyshorts

FWVT wrote: »

I still have no idea what this thread is about

Washing your hands after having a slash.... I think. Could be wrong.

I think it is Entertaining when we get these rants. OP can predict the future, spends an awful lot of time in toilets "inspecting" them and is upset that passengers don't bump into him in the uni-direction flow of passengers.

Personally I'm delighted when I use the toilet that the bloke beside me doesn't wiz on my shoe or worse in my pocket.

fr336

Cameron will surely bottle it, he would have gone ahead if he was going to. Maybe DUB will get a new runway with love from the UK

fr336

Strumms wrote: »

I flew back from the South Of France after spending a lovley week.. full of sunshine.. beaches.. beer..fantastic food..what a week. Or so we thought... we landed back in Dublin and i went for a piss and the sight that greeted me was one of horror... inadequate hand dryers.. poorly designed urinals... it ruined the whole holiday.. i told the missues and next year we are going to spend two weeks in Leitrim...

Ohh and op congrats on just about the most disjointed pointless rant since i checked after hours last night.

:D Comic genius

Snow Leopard

It's the bloody M4, quit with this "E" BS. You actually had to look that up, didn't you?

I have yet to hear a single soul refer to the M4 as the E30.

billie1b

Impetus wrote: »

The “Airports Commission” has just come out with a report stating that a third runway at Heathrow is a “no brainer” and a far better solution than one at Gatwick. This proposed northwest runway will run parallel to the E30 (Brits refer to it as the “M4”) to the south of the motorway. Its route is designed to avoid Conservative consultancies (eg Maidenhead, Uxbridge, and others to the south).

Whenever this project is completed, BA will no longer need a transit base at Dublin airport. BA will have succeeded in wrecking the airport in terms of overloading for about ten years, and then any facilities built for BA’s artificial traffic will be redundant. I arrived in Dublin airport T1 the other day and during the long walk along the corridor (expensively glazed to prevent incoming and outgoing passengers mixing – something they avoided doing in Schiphol and the new T1 in Barcelona, and T2 in Munich, and FRA to allow on/off connections). I visited several toilets to inspect. They were filthy, with deep dirt – not something for a rub of a mop. None of the hand dryers (poor, ugly copies of the Mitsubishi Jet Towel dryer) worked. The toilets on the airside that I inspected were even filthier.

Compare and contrast with the toilets in any large European airport – eg CDG, Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, and Amsterdam – all of which have clean toilets. If the airport management company can’t keep the toilets clean with current PAX volumes, what hope have they for the decade or so BA might be pushing tens of thousands of the great unwashed through the place?

There are no toilets in the corridor in Dublin T1, there are toilets just as you arrive in the pier and toilets when you reach arrivals but none in the corridor, I have also never seen any toilets in Terminal 1 filthy

Tenger

FWVT wrote: »

I still have no idea what this thread is about

And that is why this bizarre and badly written rant is getting closed.