Asbestos Removal in Domestic Home

devastar

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had experiences with companies in Dublin who would remove an asbestos plasterboard ceiling, take away the asbestos and replace the ceiling with a normal plasterboard one?

antiskeptic

devastar wrote: »

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had experiences with companies in Dublin who would remove an asbestos plasterboard ceiling, take away the asbestos and replace the ceiling with a normal plasterboard one?

It strikes me as wishful thinking to suppose someone can come to your house, engage in works that will likely result in asbestos bring broken up (producing large quantities of the most harmful kinds of asbestos - dust) then clean up such as to leave an asbestos-free environment.

If they had degree-qualified, highly motivated and fastidious workers who understood precisely the problems involved and had developed solutions to circumvent those pitfalls then .. perhaps. But they won't, they'll have folk on minimum wage or thereabouts who don't themselves fully appreciate the risks (I'm thinking of workers laying synthetic industrial flooring blithely mixing up the ingredients without any protective masks/clothing - when the packaging clearly stated the products to be highly carcenogenic). Workers who will have been "trained" (read: signed off on the bottom of a sheet on induction)

If at all possible, I'd go for installing sheeting over the existing sheeting which won't raise dust. If openings required for cable drops then figure a detailed way of doing this without raising dust (perhaps an expert consulted on specifics)

Thread carefully..

devastar

antiskeptic wrote: »

It strikes me as wishful thinking to suppose someone can come to your house, engage in works that will likely result in asbestos bring broken up (producing large quantities of the most harmful kinds of asbestos - dust) then clean up such as to leave an asbestos-free environment.

If they had degree-qualified, highly motivated and fastidious workers who understood precisely the problems involved and had developed solutions to circumvent those pitfalls then .. perhaps. But they won't, they'll have folk on minimum wage or thereabouts who don't themselves fully appreciate the risks (I'm thinking of workers laying synthetic industrial flooring blithely mixing up the ingredients without any protective masks/clothing - when the packaging clearly stated the products to be highly carcenogenic). Workers who will have been "trained" (read: signed off on the bottom of a sheet on induction)

If at all possible, I'd go for installing sheeting over the existing sheeting which won't raise dust. If openings required for cable drops then figure a detailed way of doing this without raising dust (perhaps an expert consulted on specifics)

Thread carefully..

I'm not sure what the point of your reply is. I don't consider it 'wishful thinking' to ask for advice on which companies in Dublin people have recommendations for regarding asbestos removal. There are many companies accredited in asbestos removal who take it very seriously. I'm an architect with extensive experience of asbestos removal in the UK, I'm just looking for someone information on Dublin companies as I'm not familiar with the city.

To answer your suggestion, fitting sheeting over existing is never recommended as it disturbs the original board. There are no ways to drill through asbestos board without raising dust and all existing opening have to have sealed edges, such as a lead collar if the board is to remain.

antiskeptic

devastar wrote: »

I'm not sure what the point of your reply is. I don't consider it 'wishful thinking' to ask for advice on which companies in Dublin people have recommendations for regarding asbestos removal. There are many companies accredited in asbestos removal who take it very seriously. I'm an architect with extensive experience of asbestos removal in the UK, I'm just looking for someone information on Dublin companies as I'm not familiar with the city.

My apologies: my post assumed a wide-eyed punter wanting asbestos removed, about which I'd offer the opinion that if leaving in situ the lesser of two evils, then avoid. For the reasons given.

I'm a mechanical engineer working in a heavily regulated sector and see everyday how the reality on the ground strays, often to enormous degree, from the box-ticking exercises which supposedly ensures the job (whatever it happens to be) gets done precisely-according-to-the-correct-procedure. If only ticking a box cured cancer.

Colour me cynical..but people are people long before they are Experts/HSE certified/Trained SOP Followers.

As it is everywhere: shortcuts/equipment maintenance failures/holiday & sickness temps plugged into gaps (with a scribble on the appropriate box saying "I've been inducted and can spell the word "KARCINOGEN") ..not to speak of that Friday feeling which says "let's get this one done and .. er.. dusted and head down pub".

A.K.A. the start of an infinite list of what actually happens outside the fig leaf call "accredited". This is not to say that accreditation makes someone a bad contractor, but it certainly doesn't make pulling down an asbestos ceiling the first port of call.

To answer your suggestion, fitting sheeting over existing is never recommended as it disturbs the original board.

In what way 'disturb' if screwing through an already fixed sheet into a carefully marked up batten/joist?

By what factor would you increase the disturbance element if hauling (I can only imagine; fragile and brittle?) board out? 1000x? 10,000x?

There are no ways to drill through asbestos board without raising dust and all existing opening have to have sealed edges, such as a lead collar if the board is to remain.

I wasn't supposing no dust raised, I was supposing minimum dust raised. Personally, I'd recommend avoiding littering the ceiling with downlighters

So line the drop or two with lead. Which activity(of the two options: remove or leave in situ) do you suppose is going to raise more dust (and more importantly, leave more dust lying around - assuming a pragmatic view on workers doing work)

devastar

antiskeptic wrote: »

My apologies: my post assumed a wide-eyed punter wanting asbestos removed, about which I'd offer the opinion that if leaving in situ the lesser of two evils, then avoid. For the reasons given.

Thank you for your apology, it's appreciated. I'm sorry you have come across such bad practice, that is what I am hoping to avoid by asking for advice. Asbestos removal is taken incredibly seriously in the UK and no-one would dream of removing it without full body protection gear and air filtration, plus masking measures taken to remove all fibres from the area being taken away. I want to find a similar operation in Dublin.

antiskeptic wrote: »

In what way 'disturb' if screwing through an already fixed sheet into a carefully marked up batten/joist?

Screwing though a board is what causes the problem. The only way to ensure no dust escapes is to encapsulate the asbestos (not possible with a ceiling) or do absolutely nothing to the board. The ceiling has already been disturbed recently and re-plastered badly so my concern is that the asbestos in the boards is already compromised and in that situation, in my opinion, the safest route is the complete removal of all asbestos from the room by a qualified team.

antiskeptic wrote: »

I wasn't supposing no dust raised, I was supposing minimum dust raised. Personally, I'd recommend avoiding littering the ceiling with downlighters

So line the drop or two with lead. Which activity(of the two options: remove or leave in situ) do you suppose is going to raise more dust (and more importantly, leave more dust lying around - assuming a pragmatic view on workers doing work)

Ideally I want no dust raised that isn't being done by a qualified professional in protective gear. Even if I was to collar the existing openings, I would need an asbestos professional to carry out that work. I have worked on buildings where the asbestos removal was carried out very competently and professionally by employing a good specialist. Not every company are cowboys.

antiskeptic

devastar wrote: »

Thank you for your apology, it's appreciated. I'm sorry you have come across such bad practice, that is what I am hoping to avoid by asking for advice. Asbestos removal is taken incredibly seriously in the UK and no-one would dream of removing it without full body protection gear and air filtration, plus masking measures taken to remove all fibres from the area being taken away. I want to find a similar operation in Dublin.

Have you ever seen those food-safety ad's on tv where they highlight bacteria spread around a kitchen when handling fresh chicken. It would take a similar kind of x-ray specs kind of survey to convince me that removal of sheeting from a ceiling would leave less dust residue around than fitting plasterboard over the existing! Which is not to say it's not achievable, just that I wouldn't be convinced by anything less!

Screwing though a board is what causes the problem. The only way to ensure no dust escapes is to encapsulate the asbestos (not possible with a ceiling) or do absolutely nothing to the board.

I would have thought that accurate location of battens allied to pressing the board tight against the ceiling would mean minimal dust escape as the screw passes through both boards into the batten? That on the assumption that a no-residual-dust-whatsoever was non-achievable. And what there was would be above ceiling rather than in the living space.

The ceiling has already been disturbed recently and re-plastered badly so my concern is that the asbestos in the boards is already compromised and in that situation, in my opinion, the safest route is the complete removal of all asbestos from the room by a qualified team.

Fair enough.. if you're past the point of starting with a stable situation then you're never going to able to retrieve it. Having it out would then be the better option.

Ideally I want no dust raised that isn't being done by a qualified professional in protective gear. Even if I was to collar the existing openings, I would need an asbestos professional to carry out that work. I have worked on buildings where the asbestos removal was carried out very competently and professionally by employing a good specialist. Not every company are cowboys.

I was thinking less cowboy and more pragmatic-life. I work for a multinational who would be considered as far from a cowboy operation as it is possible to be. But what happens on the ground is just the way life is. And I see the same kind of thing wherever I go.

Let's agree to differ!

devastar

To be honest I've found it incredibly frustrating and disappointing dealing with contractors so far in Dublin. Only one firm actually did a mostly good job, but only after they found out I was an architect. Deadlines, don't get met, people just don't show up, I've been asked 'how do you want to pay' so many times! All I want is a company I can rely on to do a good, competent work and stand over it. I'd rather pay full price for a fully completed and guaranteed job than cash in hand for a substandard one. I've even had to take one firm to the smalls claims court for damages done!

antiskeptic

devastar wrote: »

To be honest I've found it incredibly frustrating and disappointing dealing with contractors so far in Dublin. Only one firm actually did a mostly good job, but only after they found out I was an architect. Deadlines, don't get met, people just don't show up, I've been asked 'how do you want to pay' so many times! All I want is a company I can rely on to do a good, competent work and stand over it. I'd rather pay full price for a fully completed and guaranteed job than cash in hand for a substandard one. I've even had to take one firm to the smalls claims court for damages done!

Tell me about it. I began my professional career in Holland where the trains and everything else runs on rails. When phoning a contractor to make an appointment there'd be the sound of two diaries being opened and a discussion over which day and what time. At the allotted time, reception would phone to say x had arrived and I'd have ensured to leave space for the meeting.

Return to Ireland and it was:

Contractor "I'll drop out to ya next week".

Me: "Er.. what day?

Contractor: "Huh .. oh, eh, let's make it Thursday"

Me: "What time Thursday"

Contractor: "Time? Oh, eh.. say 10am"

With about a 50% strike rate for turning up on and day and another 50% of that for turning up on time.

-

As it happens, I couldn't change Ireland so Ireland changed me back into an Irish man. I don't get as disappointed or frustrated anymore.

sweetie

I believe a small asbestos roof may have been removed improperly on a property adjoining my garden over the last couple of days. If that is the case is my garden still a dangerous area (I have a 4 yr old at home most of the time) and who should I report theis to investigate?

BryanF

sweetie wrote: »

I believe a small asbestos roof may have been removed improperly on a property adjoining my garden over the last couple of days. If that is the case is my garden still a dangerous area (I have a 4 yr old at home most of the time) and who should I report theis to investigate?

Hsa.ie

Calahonda52

sweetie wrote: »

I believe a small asbestos roof may have been removed improperly on a property adjoining my garden over the last couple of days. If that is the case is my garden still a dangerous area (I have a 4 yr old at home most of the time) and who should I report theis to investigate?

If you have anything like the rain we have had an dust that may have escaped is well washed into your garden.

Without diminishing the issue, the child's exposure to particulates from diesel engines is a greater lifetime hazard.

Re the HSA, unless you have photo evidence of before and after it will prove tough to prove.
Have u details of the skip company or is it all in the green bin:)

sweetie

Thanks, skip is there still but piled high with lots of earth on it.

Edit; looked over the wall the sheets are piled up against the wall adjoining my property.

Calahonda52

sweetie wrote: »

Thanks, skip is there still but piled high with lots of earth on it.

Edit; looked over the wall the sheets are piled up against the wall adjoining my property.

are they double wrapped in plastic and taped, if not take pics and get onto HSA pronto

devastar

Update: I found a great company not too far away from me who came up and took a sample of the ceiling and confirmed what I had suspected. Not only was there asbestos in the ceiling, there were two types of asbestos in the ceiling! They gave us a very thorough quote for the removal of the asbestos ceiling, insulation above etc.. which was really spot on health and safety wise but unfortunately a little out of our price range. So we're putting a ceiling in below the existing ceiling (but not touching) and they are sending some people with specialised vacuums to do the localised drilling when we move the light fitting. Really impressed with them!

mortimer33

devastar wrote: »

Update: I found a great company not too far away from me who came up and took a sample of the ceiling and confirmed what I had suspected. Not only was there asbestos in the ceiling, there were two types of asbestos in the ceiling! They gave us a very thorough quote for the removal of the asbestos ceiling, insulation above etc.. which was really spot on health and safety wise but unfortunately a little out of our price range. So we're putting a ceiling in below the existing ceiling (but not touching) and they are sending some people with specialised vacuums to do the localised drilling when we move the light fitting. Really impressed with them!

Would you mind PMing the company details?