Newbie - few questions re buying first campervan

clongal

Hi there

apologies if I ask questions that have already been asked before (if there is a good thread on this I should look at please direct me there instead :-) )

we are hoping to buy a campervan to use over the summer and hopefully for years to come, both here in Ireland and abroad

2 adults, 2 kids, 1 dog (the cat will stay at home)

we've looked at a few on donedeal and are getting ready to go and view some but am wondering what sort of things you'd advise to look out in particular for as we have no experience at all in this?

our budget is in and around 10k which I am hoping is enough to but a decent van, but would be interested in thoughts on that?

some of the vans I've enquired about don't have seatbelts in the back but say they can be fitted, I wonder would this cause problems with insurance or is it ok?

sorry this is so vague - really just hoping to have my eyes opened to any potential issues

Aidan_M_M

Very very few in the country who Can or will, legally fit rear seat belts.

clongal

thanks Aidan - so reckon I should steer clear of any without seatbelts in back - is there anyway to tell whether belts came when the van was made or were added after by a previous owner?

spaceHopper

Look for an up to date DOE test, check that it's registered as a camper can, check that you can get it insured before you buy, you get lots of people finding out after they bought that they can't get insurance, for example you need no claims in the last 5 years with some companies.

What type of body do you want to go for, a coach build body made of panels or panel van converted, either coach build or a converted commercial.
Make use if it's imported the VRT was paid, can you run a car tel check to make sure it's not stole...

Condition wise look for damp and rust. In coach built motor home type can damp will see it rot from the inside out.

You really need 3 point belts with a crash tested seat. My can has lap belts and as much as I'd love to bring the kids aways it's not safe for them.

Always google the seller number and name...

spaceHopper

Oh and make sure they show you every thing working, always meet a private seller at their home, if it's cheap here must be a reason.

clongal

Thanks Spacehopper I assume coach built means one of the built for purpose campervans wheareas panel van converted means like a ford transit that has been customised? I think I'd prefer the former

those are really helpful tips - thank you again

Benbecul97

Yes, you assume correctly.
Keep looking, there are loads out there, dont rush, and make sure its the configuration you want and that accomodate growing kids.
Personally, I'd leave the dog at home too.

spaceHopper

some maker build the body around a chassis using panels and a timber frame. Others will take a new steel panel van and then fit it out, cut holes for the windows.... or they could even use a minibus. I'd call both of these coach build as they were only ever a camper.

You also see ex-commercial vans that were converted (some by a pro) but they will have all the extra ware and tare of commercial van.

moodrater

spaceHopper wrote: »

You also see ex-commercial vans that were converted (some by a pro) but they will have all the extra ware and tare of commercial van.

I'd rather a well run in commercial van before a camper thats been rusting 11 months of the year outside someones house every year.

clongal

thanks everyone - went to see two last night both 1994

the first (Fiat Ducato) he was asking 7350 but then he said the bumper and a window had been stolen the night before so he'd drop to 6500. There was a lot of sealant sort of smeared all over the outside, it didn't look great, there was a lot of pitting on the ceiling inside which I don't know whether it's suggestive of water damage? the inside felt quite musty, not sure if it was damp or just hadn't been used a while. He didn't seem to know how things worked, wasn't quite sure where the water tank was etc. That was a Fiat Ducato

The second (Talbot Kon-Tiki) was asking 12,000 which I though was steep for the age of the van but maybe not. A smaller van but very neat inside and obviously well looked after. No signs of water damage at all. No signs of massive sealant repair on the outside either. Lots of new additions in last few years...timing belt, clutch, boiler etc. Only problem was my partner wouldn't be able to drive it as he has very long legs and couldn't get them in with the gearstick (he'd have had to drive with one leg wrapped around the gearstick!)

I'm thinking now maybe we need to go for the LH drive models with gear stick tucked up to the side if the gear shaft in the middle of the cabin gets in the way

moodrater

clongal wrote: »

thanks everyone - went to see two last night both 1994

the first (Fiat Ducato) he was asking 7350 but then he said the bumper and a window had been stolen the night before so he'd drop to 6500. There was a lot of sealant sort of smeared all over the outside, it didn't look great, there was a lot of pitting on the ceiling inside which I don't know whether it's suggestive of water damage? the inside felt quite musty, not sure if it was damp or just hadn't been used a while. He didn't seem to know how things worked, wasn't quite sure where the water tank was etc. That was a Fiat Ducato

The second (Talbot Kon-Tiki) was asking 12,000 which I though was steep for the age of the van but maybe not. A smaller van but very neat inside and obviously well looked after. No signs of water damage at all. No signs of massive sealant repair on the outside either. Lots of new additions in last few years...timing belt, clutch, boiler etc. Only problem was my partner wouldn't be able to drive it as he has very long legs and couldn't get them in with the gearstick (he'd have had to drive with one leg wrapped around the gearstick!)

I'm thinking now maybe we need to go for the LH drive models with gear stick tucked up to the side if the gear shaft in the middle of the cabin gets in the way

Don't consider buying a damp one at any cost .. our friend is a professional cabinet maker and renovated a damp damaged one he lists it as the worst job of his life and hes has some terrible jobs.

I had a go at repairing a damp ridden caravan once upon a time. After we stripped out all the rotten members I found myself crowbar in hand standing on a set of chassis rails with a cooker.

CJhaughey

I was in the same position as the OP this time last year, looked at plenty and easily 90% of the ones I looked at had damp problems.
After a while you get a feel for what are the classic signs of damp and even if you ask straight out is there any damp many unscrupulous sellers will still say no.
I wasted a full day driving to Laois to look at a coachbuilt, the mirror was steamed up and the panels were peeling back from the wall.
I'd asked them if there was any damp and he seemed surprised when I pointed the massive damage out after a 3 hr drive.
I have been turned off coachbuilts at this point, I'd rather a van conversion as they seem a lot less likely to have bad seams, you can never tell unless you start looking though.
The biggest problem is that since the VRT went to a percentage of the OMSP the stock of coachbuilts has dwindled and there are very few good old ones left that have not had a damp problem in the past.
Seams should really be resealed after 10 years or so to ensure continued waterproofness and most people simply leave them on the drive and by the time dampness is noted its too late.
Even a big dealer I visited showed me a CI on special, looking closely at the underside of the body where it connects to the walls the lats were rotten and I could easily push my finger into them.
Looking at coachbuilts you need to bring someone that knows what they are looking for, a cursory glance is not enough as some brands are more inclined to have damp faults than others due to there construction.

clongal

thanks all - I wouldn't touch one with damp. Assuming I could tell that is. We saw one yesterday that looked very sound, floor very solid, ceiling very solid, no bouncing or give anywhere. Looking out at the roof it looked good too. No condensation or anything on any windows, no odd smells. I wonder is that enough to tell? the bathroom was a bit of a let down, vanity unit cracked in places etc but if that is the only drawback I'd get over it if we could get for right price.

He showed us electricity working (though some lights didn't which he said must be bulb problem...) but not water/heating. I said I'd want to see everything working so he seemed genuine and said if we are interested and make offer he would drive it over to us with full water tank etc and show all of that in action too.

it started really smoothly and seemed to drive well too. 95 ducato. Is there anything else particular we should be looking out for on one of those?

clongal

a friend just told me to use a moisture meter in the panels - I've made an offer of 9,500 on the 95 fiat ducato (toskana) now on condition that when we see it next all water systems, electricity and heating can be shown to be working. Will check moisture when I see it again next week. The mileage is about 150k Kilometres...i've been told those engines should be for another 100 to 150K...I hope that's the case

moodrater

clongal wrote: »

a friend just told me to use a moisture meter in the panels - I've made an offer of 9,500 on the 95 fiat ducato (toskana) now on condition that when we see it next all water systems, electricity and heating can be shown to be working. Will check moisture when I see it again next week. The mileage is about 150k Kilometres...i've been told those engines should be for another 100 to 150K...I hope that's the case

Theres a lot more to it than the engines. does it have a DOE for a start if not when was the last one. You need to check the chassis and cross members for rust, inner wings especially under the battery, jack up the wheels check wheel bearings and cv joints, intermediate bearing etc. etc.

CJhaughey

clongal wrote: »

a friend just told me to use a moisture meter in the panels - I've made an offer of 9,500 on the 95 fiat ducato (toskana) now on condition that when we see it next all water systems, electricity and heating can be shown to be working. Will check moisture when I see it again next week. The mileage is about 150k Kilometres...i've been told those engines should be for another 100 to 150K...I hope that's the case

Be careful with that one in Bantry, you won't have any comeback if anything is amiss.
You can see it parked by the old pier in Bantry quite a lot of caravans inside the compound and the two campers outside on the road.

clongal

"You can see it parked by the old pier in Bantry quite a lot of caravans inside the compound and the two campers outside on the road. "

hi CJH - I don't think it is one of the two parked by the pier, I saw those when we went to check it out. Mind you now you mention it may be linked to them I don't know. The one we saw was parked up in an estate if you turn right once out of Bantry on way to Glengarrif. However the guy who showed it to us did emerge from the direction of the pier where those two are parked and had us follow him to the van. Which did seem a little strange. Also slightly odd was I asked him to show us the water working but the tank was empty and even though it was parked in the estate he couldn't think of a way to get water into it so afterwards it occurred to me that he obviously didn't live there but was just parking the van...

"Be careful with that one in Bantry, you won't have any comeback if anything is amiss."

I assumed you'd never have a comeback...buyer beware and all that...?

clongal

would I be seriously unwise to buy a 1995 camper with 160,000 km on the clock? it looks good in every other way...

Aidan_M_M

clongal wrote: »

would I be seriously unwise to buy a 1995 camper with 160,000 km on the clock? it looks good in every other way...

Quite high for a camper, was it a rental? It wouldn't stop me, but might deter future buyers. I'd be more worried about the gearbox than engine.

clongal

Unfortunately I don't know if it was a rental or not - seemed to drive very well but take your point re gearbox, hard to know what state that is in

Aidan_M_M

clongal wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't know if it was a rental or not - seemed to drive very well but take your point re gearbox, hard to know what state that is in

Just see how it feels going into every gear, and that it's not hopping out of any, especially 5th

clongal

thanks Aidan - the other half drove it and he said all gear changes felt smooth - but we are due to see it again so will double check then

clongal

ok I let the one in Bantry go, the mileage of 160,000kms was really niggling me and the bathroom was not great in it. Going to see a fiat ducato autotrail scout later today - it sounds great on paper and looks very nice in the photos too. Bit pricier at 13,450 but hoping if I like it there may be a deal to be done. Hoping the advertised price usually includes a bit of scope for negotiation.... are the ducato generally Ok? I've a friend telling me the german brands Hymer, Burtsner etc might be better to hold out for, but they are rarer and the inside setup generally isn't as I'd ideally like it (with the u shaped back seating area)

This is the one we are looking at today:

97 fiat ducato autotrail 2.5tdi

Motorhome is mint condition

Doe 11/15 tax 3/16

44000miles

Tb done two months ago fully serviced new brakes

Mechanically perfect

6/7 people can sleep,,ulounge,and two double beds

Full cooker toilet and shower,

Fridge and sink,plenty storage

Aidan_M_M

Be very very vigilant for damp and rust.

JoeySully

Thats a clean looking bus!
here's a good buyer guide
http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/30488-fiat-ducato-and-peugeot-boxer-buyers-guide

I would ask for the receipt for the timing belt before you go to view, too many people make these untrue claims.

JoeySully

who have you got insurance with ?
I think Dolmens will require a engineers report before insuring as its over 10 years old.

clongal

thank you both.

JOey - Am going to call Dolmens now and ask them and also call the vendor and make sure he has receipts etc. It's a two hour drive each way and the kids are already moaning so might as well make as sure as I can before setting out that its a worthwhile trip.

Aidan will be super vigilant - thank you!

clongal

Joey - on the dolmen site they say

If the Campervan is converted and OVER 15 years old then we require our own Engineers Report Form to be completed by a Main Dealer Garage or SIMI Registered Garage (See Link for SIMI Garages in our Links section of the website).

I am not sure what they mean by "converted" but i *think* the one I'm looking at would fall instead under this category:

If your vehicle is aged 15 years or over and was manufactured as a camper:
You must submit an engineers report completed by a main dealer or SIMI garage or alternatively a DOE/CVRT is also
acceptable.

I can't get through to them to clarify

JoeySully

ahh that's good. DOE cert should be sufficient so but I would confirm as we got a lot of demands from them before insuring.
One of which was that the gas cylinder needed to be held in place by "2" securing straps. The would not over us until they got a clear photo of them.

I would ask if the results sheet is available too. This will give a good indication on how the suspension/steering/brakes and engine are performing. A think a 30% imbalance in steering/ brakes is a pass but figures should be much lower

clongal

on the timing belt and servicing etc - called the owner and he ummed and ahhed and said he didn't have paperwork but he could get it from his mechanic alright to show us later. He said he bought all parts from the motor factors himself and handed over to mechanic but has no paperwork himself now. He can get the mechanic to write up what he did now...

should I be smelling a rat?

seems a little strange to me if it was only done two months ago as he says in the ad surely he'd have known he may want to sell and would keep all that stuff?

JoeySully

Also... the biggest hurdle we had was that I or my parter could not test drive the vehicle before we purchased it!!

My car insurance would not cover me 3rd party on a camper (RSA / 123.ie). Neither could I transfer my car insurance to the camper.
My partner had a limit of 2.3l engines so we failed there too as it was a 2.5L.

I wouldn't take a chance driving without insurance especially with a large vehicle on unfamiliar roads. You could easily loose your license.

clongal

Joey - I never even thought about our car insurance not covering us to test drive. Better check that out. Am amazed you bought one without driving it. Hope it is going well for you!

Am considering not going to see the one today - it'll be at least a 5 hour round trip and am getting a bit paranoid now about him not having the paperwork to back up claims of work on the van. Just seems a bit odd to me especially for work done so recently.

But it does look a nice van and maybe there will always be something...

JoeySully

clongal wrote: »

should I be smelling a rat?

Maybe but its Ireland and nobody keeps anything like that. Ask for the garage name and if they will stand over their work. PM me the name if you like I may know them.

moodrater

The top timing belt cover is very easy to remove and you'll be able to tell at a glance if the belt and pulleys were changed that recently. Its the pulleys more that the belt that fail. In terms of a test drive if the owner is insured you could sit in while he drives it or ask him to drive it somewhere like an IDA industrial estate to test drive it. I'd rather change an engine anyday than deal with damp work so the damp should be of primary importance.

Benbecul97

JoeySully wrote: »

who have you got insurance with ?
I think Dolmens will require a engineers report before insuring as its over 10 years old.

Dolmen will accept a valid DOE/CVRT.

clongal

So did go to see the van today and currently deliberating over it. Everything fab inside all working no obvious sign of damp etc gears etc seemed fine you could see Tb has been changed etc etc.

On roof some signs of sealant over the years and roof bars looked bit tired and rusty.

Underneath a fair bit of rust. Especially towards front underneath of van. Braces on spare wheel rusty too. Main exhaust pipe looked grand but the bigger part of it ( not sure what it's called) was a bit rusty. Whether it's just surface rust or not I dunno.

But other half says any van 18 years old will have some rust.

I have some photos but don't think I can post here as am new to the site.

Guy seemed v genuine. Showed me recent cert everything looked well within the acceptable limits.

Not sure what to do now. He says he has a woman coming from Clare at 5 with cash ready to buy but I don't want to jump into it until I figure out if that sort of rust would be normal.

JoeySully

There is always someone coming with cash .. maybe there is

look at it this way. An exhaust box wont cost you a whole lot, these vans probably don't even have Cat converters. If its chassis rust you can't poke a screwdriver threw then the CVRT man wont mind. All 18 year old roofs are dirty and have there sealant replaced.

Even if the engine did go wallap its probably the cheapest thing to fix. once everything works you cant really loose. Probably will be worth 10K for many years to come, its money invested.

moodrater

clongal wrote: »

So did go to see the van today and currently deliberating over it. Everything fab inside all working no obvious sign of damp etc gears etc seemed fine you could see Tb has been changed etc etc.

On roof some signs of sealant over the years and roof bars looked bit tired and rusty.

Underneath a fair bit of rust. Especially towards front underneath of van. Braces on spare wheel rusty too. Main exhaust pipe looked grand but the bigger part of it ( not sure what it's called) was a bit rusty. Whether it's just surface rust or not I dunno.

But other half says any van 18 years old will have some rust.

I have some photos but don't think I can post here as am new to the site.

Guy seemed v genuine. Showed me recent cert everything looked well within the acceptable limits.

Not sure what to do now. He says he has a woman coming from Clare at 5 with cash ready to buy but I don't want to jump into it until I figure out if that sort of rust would be normal.

Front exhaust section is always really rusty because heat accelerates oxidation, the wheel carrier is always rusty if you gradually let it down working backward and forward then apply water proof grease it should last the life of the van. Without knowing where the rest of the rust is noone couldn't say how important it is. If its recently passed the DOE its very unlikely to be structural. Every van that age will have rust. It wouldn't be uncommor for the forward chassis members and cross section to be completely gone at that age. But it wouldn't pass the DOE then.

moodrater

If I were you I would look at all the ones nearby even if you don't like the layout etc. it will give you an idea of whats normal for the age. From reading this thread it would seem you haven't been *actively* looking very long and you've only actually seen a couple of vans so I wouldn't be in a wild panic.

clongal

thanks moodrater - the thing is we are in the deep west and even looking at things around the county can take a full half a day as "nearby" is usually a couple of hours drive away. I am working and it's really busy with the kids off school too. I don't really want to spend the time I am off with them over the summer looking at more and more vans so if we can find a decent one quickly that would be brilliant. Though I do take your point and you are right, we have only seen 4 and 3 of them were the ducato style so I don't know how we'd respond to any others.

Thanks for your comments about the rust too. It did pass teh DOE so hopefully it's not to worry about.

Joey - thank you very much too - that perspective on the van was very helpful.

The guy today in the end rang me and after a bit of humming and hawing told me he'd take 12,500 instead of the advertised 13,450. I'm thinking it over at the moment. The lady with wads of cash in her pocket mustn't have turned up in the end.

The only thing we didn't see working today was the water boiler - he said he always took cold showers and used washing up facilities on camp site so didn't even know how to use it. Assume it doesn't work so

moodrater

clongal wrote: »

The lady with wads of cash in her pocket mustn't have turned up in the end.

clongal wrote: »

The only thing we didn't see working today was the water boiler - he said he always took cold showers and used washing up facilities on camp site so didn't even know how to use it. Assume it doesn't work so

My inlaws never used theirs either I wouldn't says its that unusual it takes ages to heat up, doesn't heat a lot water and eats gas if you have the alternative of a mains shower you'll most likely take it. For dishes boiling the kettle is faster.

You also have to drain them down in winter, descale if you have hard water, refill and purge the air in spring, take on and off the vent cowls when you're using it lots of people couldn't be bothered.

If there is a problem with it its often that it wasn't drained down and frost has popped the valve or burner need cleaning /servicing. Pat Horans would sort out any issue for you or maybe Ireland West Motorhomes if you're out that direction.

clongal

thinking of taking a mechanic to check out the van - just feel I don't know enough myself to know what might be an issue...and 12 and a half grand is a lot of money to me!

Benbecul97

clongal wrote: »

thinking of taking a mechanic to check out the van - just feel I don't know enough myself to know what might be an issue...and 12 and a half grand is a lot of money to me!

Do that. Was in the same situation and got our car mechanic to check out the van. If your mechanic is happy with it mechanically, and ye are happy with it regarding layout, seen everything working, no damp etc then you can't do much more than that. Its difficult to know the right thing to do when you are a newbie, but if you check all you, can and most importantly, it feels right, then go for it. If it feels wrong, then walk away. Good luck!

JoeySully

clongal wrote: »

thinking of taking a mechanic to check out the van - just feel I don't know enough myself to know what might be an issue...and 12 and a half grand is a lot of money to me!

don't you mean 12K

clongal

do I joey??? maybe you are right (fancy a negotiators job? )

clongal

thanks Benbecul - you are right - you can't do much more than that! I'm worried we've missed some damp in the panels or something but it seemed so dry inside, especially after the torrential rain over the last few days...

Benbecul97

clongal wrote: »

thanks Benbecul - you are right - you can't do much more than that! I'm worried we've missed some damp in the panels or something but it seemed so dry inside, especially after the torrential rain over the last few days...

No problem. If it seems/smells fine inside and you have checked with damp meter etc, then its probably ok. You can be tormented with all the advice, check for this, check for that, and that advice is perfectly valid, but when you are not in the trade it can all be very confusing. Good luck!

gazzaman22

Hi Clongal

How did you get on, Did ye buy yet? or whats the craic, Just after reading the whole thread, i'm interested in doing the same