Mature Students not elligable for Grant

Kaz.15

Hi,

I'm hoping to study PE Teaching this year as a Mature Student. I won't qualify for the grant this year, and have just discovered this means I will not be elligable for the duration of the course (4 years).

I'm tying to decide if next year would be a better option financially, but worried I may not get a second chance.

I'd be curious to speak with any mature students out there who have not received any financial assistance from SUSI and how they are coping with student contribution, living expenses etc.

Any advice would be much appreciated :-)

Sn@kebite

Why wouldn't a Mature Student be eligible for a grant?

Since 2010, people who are getting Back to Education Allowance and those on Post-Leaving Certificate courses who are getting VTOS allowances are not eligible for student support grants. However, this does not affect any entitlement they may have to exemption from college fees or the Student Contribution so they should still complete a grant application.

Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/grants_and_funds_available_for_mature_students.html

I'm am 90% sure it's the student maintenance payment you can't get while also on BTEA. (BTEA is better as far as I'm aware because it can be a higher payment).

As far as grants go it depends on your individual financial status (means tested I'm sure). If you personally were rejected for the grant it would not be because you are a mature student but more likely because you did not tick enough/the correct boxes.

If someone can correct me I'm open to that. I'm trying to go to college in Sept as a Mature Student and as far as I'm aware I will be able to get the grant from SUSI. If I were to be rejected for the grant I would not be able to go to college. A €40k loan is not going to happen.

Sup08

In order to answer or understand why you do jot qualify, I would need to know why you do not qualify and why you think you would not qualify for 4 years.
Is the course you wish to attend not am approves course?

Kaz.15

Hi there,

So I have been on to SUSI again since my last post and apparently I was given incorrect information on the last call.

If I don't qualify for the grant this year (based on my living situation & parents income), I can still reapply under a different application next year.

I have accepted my course so will be beginning in Sept. Hopefully if I don't qualify for any financial help this year, I will be assisted for the next three years in some way. I have been told I will have a better chance next year as I will be moving away for college.

To get the BTEA, you have to be unemployed for 9 months before the course starts so that does not apply to me.

Thanks for your advice and best of luck!

Sup08

Kaz.15 wrote: »

Hi there,

So I have been on to SUSI again since my last post and apparently I was given incorrect information on the last call.

If I don't qualify for the grant this year (based on my living situation & parents income), I can still reapply under a different application next year.

I have accepted my course so will be beginning in Sept. Hopefully if I don't qualify for any financial help this year, I will be assisted for the next three years in some way. I have been told I will have a better chance next year as I will be moving away for college.

To get the BTEA, you have to be unemployed for 9 months before the course starts so that does not apply to me.

Thanks for your advice and best of luck!

If you attend college this year, you will be assessed on your parents income for the duration of your education until you take a break of 3 years no matter where you live or your martial status.
Some people can be dependent upon their parents well into their adulthood and be married with children, mortgage etc.

Digital Society

To get BTEA its either be unemployed 9 months or have been made redundant.

Go with BTEA. Its far better than the Grant. You eg tit for a good bit of the Summer. As you've already experienced, SUSI is like dealing with some kind of trained monkey whose sole purpose is to annoy you.

You will likely get Fees from Susi and BTEA. Getting Fees is far less hassle and theres no pressure to meet deadlines.

Kaz.15

I am currently working full time and leaving my job to go to college. So will not be entitled to BTEA.

Kaz.15

Sup08 wrote: »

If you attend college this year, you will be assessed on your parents income for the duration of your education until you take a break of 3 years no matter where you live or your martial status.
Some people can be dependent upon their parents well into their adulthood and be married with children, mortgage etc.

I am living with a friend but do not have enough proof of this for SUSI, so have been advised to withdraw my application and apply under Dependent Mature Student instead.

If I do not apply until next year will my parents still be assessed?

endacl

Kaz.15 wrote: »

I am living with a friend but do not have enough proof of this for SUSI, so have been advised to withdraw my application and apply under Dependent Mature Student instead.

If I do not apply until next year will my parents still be assessed?

An affidavit made out by your friend, stating your independence re your living conditions, signed for free by a peace commissioner at your local citizens information centre, will be acceptable as proof for your grant application.

Digital Society

endacl wrote: »

An affidavit made out by your friend, stating your independence re your living conditions, signed for free by a peace commissioner at your local citizens information centre, will be acceptable as proof for your grant application.

Ive seen people use just some random addressed letter such as an insurance quote from years back as proof. They accept quite a lot of stuff. You cant expect a teenager or young adult to be organised with that stuff. It would be a nightmare.

Kaz.15

I've already closed my application because I didn't think I would have enough evidence.

I will now be means tested on my own wages and my parents... I don't think I will be entitled to anything based on what they are earning, so I'm wondering if I should still go ahead with my application or wait until next year.

endacl

Kaz.15 wrote: »

I've already closed my application because I didn't think I would have enough evidence.

I will now be means tested on my own wages and my parents... I don't think I will be entitled to anything based on what they are earning, so I'm wondering if I should still go ahead with my application or wait until next year.

If it's what you want to do, get started. No point in spending a year on pause. You'll make it work.

Onwards and upwards!

stephenl15

Kaz.15 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm hoping to study PE Teaching this year as a Mature Student. I won't qualify for the grant this year, and have just discovered this means I will not be elligable for the duration of the course (4 years).

I'm tying to decide if next year would be a better option financially, but worried I may not get a second chance.

I'd be curious to speak with any mature students out there who have not received any financial assistance from SUSI and how they are coping with student contribution, living expenses etc.

Any advice would be much appreciated :-)

Just as long as you're not studying English :P Eligible*

Kaz.15

stephenl15 wrote: »

Just as long as you're not studying English :P Eligible*

I did notice that but thanks for picking up on it :-)

Sup08

endacl wrote: »

An affidavit made out by your friend, stating your independence re your living conditions, signed for free by a peace commissioner at your local citizens information centre, will be acceptable as proof for your grant application.

It will not be acceptable. Sorry

Sup08

The only way you can apply as an Independent Student is to either provide proof of independent residence since October 2014 or wait until 2016/17 before starting your course and put in place the required bills (utility)for October 2015.

If you apply this year, you will remain a dependent student upon your parents for the duration of your education or you take a further break of 3 years.

Letters from Landlords, Friends or any other person (including Gardaí, Peace Commissioners or Solicitors) are not acceptable proof of independent residence whether sworn upon or not.

The documents submitted must relate to the property. Fixed Service Utility Bills, Property Tax, Rental Agreement (PRTB Registered) or Mortgage Statement etc.

You must satisfy the awarding authority of independent residence and they can ask for multiples of these documents.

Student Grant Scheme 2015

Classes of applicant

13. (1) For the purposes of this Scheme there shall be two classes of applicant
as follows—

(a) independent student; and

(b) dependent student.

(2) An applicant's class is defined at their first point of entry to an approved
post leaving certificate course or an approved higher education course or at
their point of re-entry to such an approved course and will continue to apply
for the duration of their studies.

(3) In this scheme an “independent student” means a mature student who did
not ordinarily reside with his or her parents, or either of them, from October of
the year before the first point of entry to an approved post leaving certificate
course or an approved higher education course or re-entry to an approved
course and where it is established to the satisfaction of the awarding authority
that they are eligible on that basis.

(4) “Mature student” means a student who on 1 January—

(a) in the year of entry for the first time to an approved post leaving
certificate course;

(b) in the year of entry for the first time to an approved higher education
course (other than a course known for the time being as a post leaving
certificate course); or

(c) in the year of re-entry to an approved course, is at least 23 years old.

(5) “Re-entry”, for the purposes of this Scheme, means a mature student
entering an approved course following a break in studies of at least three years,
having previously attended an approved course.

(6) A mature student pursuing an approved course following a break in studies
of at least five years, in circumstances where the mature student previously
attended, but did not successfully complete, a course and is returning in order
to pursue an approved course in the relevant academic year, shall be known as
a “second chance student”.

(7) “Dependent student” means every student other than an independent
student, as provided for in this Scheme, who is eligible to be considered under
this Scheme.

endacl

^^

That's new. I got a full non-adjacent grant after demonstrating independence by means of affidavit some years ago. Actually, probably 10 years ago. Gettin' old...

Edit: Actually, affidavit isn't mentioned above. An affidavit isn't a 'letter from a peace commissioner'. It's an recognised instrument in law.

Sup08

endacl wrote: »

^^

That's new. I got a full non-adjacent grant after demonstrating independence by means of affidavit some years ago. Actually, probably 10 years ago. Gettin' old...

Edit: Actually, affidavit isn't mentioned above. An affidavit isn't a 'letter from a peace commissioner'. It's an recognised instrument in law.

The grant scheme changes year on year and your example above is one of the reasons why there is now only one awarding authority.
There were too many inconsistencies in the way each of the 66 old awarding authorities administered and interpreted the scheme.
10 years ago this may have been accepted by your local VEC or County Council that administered your grant but that may been not accepted by another. Hence the change to SUSI, one grant awarding authority for consistency.

Kaz.15

Sup08 wrote: »

The only way you can apply as an Independent Student is to either provide proof of independent residence since October 2014 or wait until 2016/17 before starting your course and put in place the required bills (utility)for October 2015.

If you apply this year, you will remain a dependent student upon your parents for the duration of your education or you take a further break of 3 years.

Letters from Landlords, Friends or any other person (including Gardaí, Peace Commissioners or Solicitors) are not acceptable proof of independent residence whether sworn upon or not.

The documents submitted must relate to the property. Fixed Service Utility Bills, Property Tax, Rental Agreement (PRTB Registered) or Mortgage Statement etc.

You must satisfy the awarding authority of independent residence and they can ask for multiples of these documents.

Student Grant Scheme 2015

So just to clarify, if I do not apply this year and wait until my second year of college, will it be from October 2014 or October 2015 I am assessed on? i.e. living situation & proof of bills etc

Sup08

Kaz.15 wrote: »

So just to clarify, if I do not apply this year and wait until my second year of college, will it be from October 2014 or October 2015 I am assessed on? i.e. living situation & proof of bills etc

If you enter college this year, you will be assessed on your proof of independent residency from October 2014 every year you apply.

Kaz.15

Sup08 wrote: »

If you enter college this year, you will be assessed on your proof of independent residency from October 2014 every year you apply.

I guess all I can do is apply as a Dependent Student anyway and see what happens. I know for a fact that my parents cannot afford to support me through four years of college regardless of what they are earning, and I have not been dependent on them since moving out.

It's frustrating because I lived in Australia for most of 2014 and have proof of rent and bills there for two years. It's just my circumstances in Ireland at the moment which seem to be the main obstacle.

KevJ

Hi Sup08,

May I ask you a question please?

I'm a mature student and currently entering 3rd year. I have applied for fees through SUSI before as a dependant mature student but have had my application rejected based on income. Between my mother and I, we were over the limit. My college is 2 hours away and last year I decided to rent a room beside the college. I lived there from September 2015 to June 2015. I applied again this year and was refused this week. In the comments section at the end of the application I told them my situation but something happened my browser and when I hit send the text did not go through. I emailed them to let them know my error. I plan on appealing it but I'm unsure if I stand a chance.

I currently receive BTEA.

Annasopra

KevJ wrote: »

Hi Sup08,

May I ask you a question please?

I'm a mature student and currently entering 3rd year. I have applied for fees through SUSI before as a dependant mature student but have had my application rejected based on income. Between my mother and I, we were over the limit. My college is 2 hours away and last year I decided to rent a room beside the college. I lived there from September 2015 to June 2015. I applied again this year and was refused this week. In the comments section at the end of the application I told them my situation but something happened my browser and when I hit send the text did not go through. I emailed them to let them know my error. I plan on appealing it but I'm unsure if I stand a chance.

I currently receive BTEA.

Because you entered college as a dependent student SUSI will not allow you to change your status from dependent student to independent mature student unless there is a 3 year break in your studies so it is unlikely your appeal will succeed.

Sup08

KevJ wrote: »

Hi Sup08,

May I ask you a question please?

I'm a mature student and currently entering 3rd year. I have applied for fees through SUSI before as a dependant mature student but have had my application rejected based on income. Between my mother and I, we were over the limit. My college is 2 hours away and last year I decided to rent a room beside the college. I lived there from September 2015 to June 2015. I applied again this year and was refused this week. In the comments section at the end of the application I told them my situation but something happened my browser and when I hit send the text did not go through. I emailed them to let them know my error. I plan on appealing it but I'm unsure if I stand a chance.

I currently receive BTEA.

Hi KevJ
I assume you tried to apply as an independent mature student and got refused.
This is because you were classed at your point of entry (when you entered 1st year 2 years ago) as a dependent student. This means you will always have to apply as a dependent student until you take a break of 3 years or more from your studies (all studies that lead to a major award on the NFQ)

So if the above is what I am taking from your question, then you would be wasting your time on an appeal.

Sup08

KevJ

Thanks Joey for replying to me :-)

Hi Sup08,

Yes I did try apply this year as an independent and got refused and had to reapply as a dependant. I'm terrible at this sort of thing and had no idea I would always have to apply as a dependent. Sad news really as I won't be able to afford fees this September unless I can get the money together. I got a loan out to pay for my 2nd instalment of fees in January. It's good to know where I stand though, so thanks for replying guys

Umphie

KevJ wrote: »

Hi Sup08,

May I ask you a question please?

I'm a mature student and currently entering 3rd year. I have applied for fees through SUSI before as a dependant mature student but have had my application rejected based on income. Between my mother and I, we were over the limit. My college is 2 hours away and last year I decided to rent a room beside the college. I lived there from September 2015 to June 2015. I applied again this year and was refused this week. In the comments section at the end of the application I told them my situation but something happened my browser and when I hit send the text did not go through. I emailed them to let them know my error. I plan on appealing it but I'm unsure if I stand a chance.

I currently receive BTEA.

Hi Super I have the same situation because of first point of entry and I am going to grants appeal board now I really hope I can get the appeal because I won't be able to finish my last year in college .

Sup08

Umphie wrote: »

Hi Super I have the same situation because of first point of entry and I am going to grants appeal board now I really hope I can get the appeal because I won't be able to finish my last year in college .

If you have been classed at your point of entry and you have not had a gap of 3years or more then you are wasting your time.
In order to go to the SGAB, AFAIK, you must have appealed to the appeals officer in SUSI with your appeal being refused before applying to the SGAB.