Purchased clocked car privately. Urgent help needed

LasersGoPewPew

So i bought a Car a few days ago. When i was pricing a job at my local dealer i asked them to find out the service history for the car. They said the last dealership service was Early 2014 at nearly 300K kilometers.
Now the odometer is showing circa 200k. NCT was done in March with circa 200k on the clock. Why the hell didn't the difference in milage raise red flags with the NCT from 2013 to 2015? Its absolutely ridiculous. And to make things worse, the NCT want 15.50 to release the milage from 2013 the cnuts.

So I contacted the previous owner and questioned. He denied he clocked the car. Even though the dealership the car was traded into said he got another query not too long ago before me about the car being suspected of being clocked, he (3rd owner) said he purchased the car with the NCT which checked out when i cross checked with a the Cartell report. The sale date was about 10 days after the NCT was done from the previous owner.

The original owner traded it in last year to a dealership who then sold it on to a tradesman who then sold it on to the previous owner and has made its way to me.

My investigations are pointing at the 2nd owner (tradesman) who is to blame for clocking the car. I have his name and address. I have the service history from the dealership and the Cartell report showing Sale dates.

I cant sell the car now because i know its clocked and if i do ill be liable for criminal proceedings. A solicitor basically said I have no case as legal costs will quickly outweigh the value of the car and its almost impossible to prove who clocked it.
Going from what the dealership told me the 3rd owner knew it was clocked before i bought it even though he denies any knowledge about the dealer or contacting him.

Im in real trouble now because i cant sell the car and i cant afford to buy a new one.

I will go to the gardai tomorrow with this information but i cant help but think they wont be able to prove it and ill be deeply out of pocket

I'm in absolute bits here so any advice that would help me would be greatly appreciated

LasersGoPewPew

Wont allow me to edit the post.

To make things clearer. The 2nd owner nctd it at 200k

Atlantic Dawn

What did you find out when you checked the history before you bought it?

pablo128

Of course you can sell the car. You just have to let the new owner know it was clocked, or return the odometer to the correct reading.

bpmurray

If it costs too much to do anything about it - the criminal investigation won't cost you anything, so make sure you go to the Gardai with what you have - why not just drive the car? If it's running OK, you might as well use it for what you bought it. I'm guessing that you didn't intend on it being a huge investment if you thought it had 200K on the clock anyway, so just drive it into the ground.

goochy

I feel for you but why did you not do a history check ? No matter how cheap always check . Anyway at that mileage why not drive into the ground ?

pablo128

My brother bought an 06 Astra a year and a half ago. It was in great condition, for decent money. Anyway aa few months back he got a call from Gardai saying the car was clocked. How they found out I don't know. The brother got an initial shock but doesn't give a rats ass now. He'd be more pissed if the car started giving expensive problems, in his words.

cletus

Drive it on. As said above, presumably you bought it to do just that. If the mechanic who checked out before you bought (or your mate, or you, out whoever) was happy enough to say buy it, then fling on with it. What's the car by the way

LasersGoPewPew

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What did you find out when you checked the history before you bought it?

Did a Cartell check and everything seemed to check out. Said no milage discrepancies but obviously useless to me now

pablo128 wrote: »

Of course you can sell the car. You just have to let the new owner know it was clocked, or return the odometer to the correct reading.

i would return it to the correct reading but i dont know what was on the clock. All i could do is return it to the last known service reading. How would i even go about getting it changed?

goochy wrote: »

I feel for you but why did you not do a history check ? No matter how cheap always check . Anyway at that mileage why not drive into the ground ?

I did a cartell check but nothing out of order showed up. Goes to show how useless it is if other bodies arnt forced to share information like in the UK.

pablo128 wrote: »

My brother bought an 06 Astra a year and a half ago. It was in great condition, for decent money. Anyway aa few months back he got a call from Gardai saying the car was clocked. How they found out I don't know. The brother got an initial shock but doesn't give a rats ass now. He'd be more pissed if the car started giving expensive problems, in his words.

A few days after i bought it a noise appreared in the engine, wasnt there when i bought it. Timing chain needs changing, a minimum of 1500euro fix excluding oil and filters that need to be done

SpannerMonkey

you really should have done a check not just a cartell but go through service history and ring the garages that have stamps on the service book. you will find it next to impossible to prove who did it .. if the car is driving ok then just drive it on . there is a ridiculous amout of clocked cars out there . you have probably had one in the past that was clocked without knowing it .


have a look here about what you can do
http://www.consumerhelp.ie/cars-rights-wrong

pablo128

The original mileage will be saved in the ECU, or in other words the electronic brain of the car. Any competent lad with diagnostics would be able to sort it out.

What kind of car is it out of interest?

SpannerMonkey

bmw 520d or 318d/320d im guessing by the fact you mentioned timing chain isue?

LasersGoPewPew

pablo128 wrote: »

The original mileage will be saved in the ECU, or in other words the electronic brain of the car. Any competent lad with diagnostics would be able to sort it out.

What kind of car is it out of interest?

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

bmw 520d or 318d/320d im guessing by the fact you mentioned timing chain isue?

07 525D, 1050 tax(dont mind) and another 1500-2k for chain. My eyes are watering.

SpannerMonkey

its very unusual for the timing chain to go on the 6 cylinder models

i would definately get a second opinion .

as for the Tax i feel your pain i have a 525d aswell:) but you knew that before ya bought it

LasersGoPewPew

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

its very unusual for the timing chain to go on the 6 cylinder models

i would definately get a second opinion .

as for the Tax i feel your pain i have a 525d aswell:) but you knew that before ya bought it

Definately the chain got an Indy and garage to look at it. So yeah sh1t luck.

SpannerMonkey

jaysus thats a balls man .

LasersGoPewPew

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

jaysus thats a balls man .

Yeah man im beyond mad

spaceHopper

Any come back on cartel?

LasersGoPewPew

spaceHopper wrote: »

Any come back on cartel?

No, they have themselves covered.



What i cant understand though is why the god damn NCT didnt catch this. Surely the odemeter reading is taken and logged. Why cant they implement a system where if the odemeter reading is below previous reading it should sound alarm bells. Should also have a system here to share nct, service info to 3rd parties like cartell or motorcheck.

pablo128

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

No, they have themselves covered.



What i cant understand though is why the god damn NCT didnt catch this. Surely the odemeter reading is taken and logged. Why cant they implement a system where if the odemeter reading is below previous reading it should sound alarm bells. Should also have a system here to share nct, service info to 3rd parties like cartell or motorcheck.

There is a system now in place for just that. But it's only just been implemented so maybe yours slipped the net. I think your only hope is to go to the guards now and hopefully when they start asking questions, the seller might be more inclined to refund you.

LasersGoPewPew

pablo128 wrote: »

There is a system now in place for just that. But it's only just been implemented so maybe yours slipped the net. I think your only hope is to go to the guards now and hopefully when they start asking questions, the seller might be more inclined to refund you.

I enquired with the RSA on this matter as they oversee the NCT. They said the milage is logged on the NCT system and the disc you get but there is no system in place to stop me from clocking the car right now and retesting it again without alarm bells ringing. They said in case the odemeter might have to be replaced or a new engine put in would skew this. What The Fcuk???????

marco_polo

pablo128 wrote: »

There is a system now in place for just that. But it's only just been implemented so maybe yours slipped the net. I think your only hope is to go to the guards now and hopefully when they start asking questions, the seller might be more inclined to refund you.

About time really had one of those MK1 focus that the entire dash unit died on and had to be replaced. Was astounded at the time that there was not even a query as to how the milage went from 50k miles to about 1k miles in the space of a year (I had all the documentation from the dealer ready to go of course )

Stheno

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

No, they have themselves covered.



What i cant understand though is why the god damn NCT didnt catch this. Surely the odemeter reading is taken and logged. Why cant they implement a system where if the odemeter reading is below previous reading it should sound alarm bells. Should also have a system here to share nct, service info to 3rd parties like cartell or motorcheck.

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

I enquired with the RSA on this matter as they oversee the NCT. They said the milage is logged on the NCT system and the disc you get but there is no system in place to stop me from clocking the car right now and retesting it again without alarm bells ringing. They said in case the odemeter might have to be replaced or a new engine put in would skew this. What The Fcuk???????

New certs provide previous and current mileage, at least mine does? this only came in last year though

LasersGoPewPew

Stheno wrote: »

New certs provide previous and current mileage, at least mine does? this only came in last year though

It didn't in my case and mine was NCT'd in march of this year. Absolute joke

Stheno

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

It didn't in my case and mine was NCT'd in march of this year. Absolute joke

Have you checked it's a genuine test?

LasersGoPewPew

Stheno wrote: »

Have you checked it's a genuine test?

Yes its a genuine test. Nct said it was genuine and cartell too

Del2005

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

Yes its a genuine test. Nct said it was genuine and cartell too

Which is all the more reason to force the NCT to release the mileage information, putting the current mileage on the cert isn't good enough we need a history of the mileage as the vehicle ages.

Bigus

Get on to the national consumer agency, they'll run the investigation case for you and subsequent legals , and they don't like clockers .

Stheno

Del2005 wrote: »

Which is all the more reason to force the NCT to release the mileage information, putting the current mileage on the cert isn't good enough we need a history of the mileage as the vehicle ages.

But that's the thing, my nct was done in May and lists last years and this years mileage on the cert.

Maybe they changed it the past few months, but in 2014 they recorded mileage of 106k on my car then 119k this year, so I've a clear record

LasersGoPewPew

Del2005 wrote: »

Which is all the more reason to force the NCT to release the mileage information, putting the current mileage on the cert isn't good enough we need a history of the mileage as the vehicle ages.

Exactly. This is why im bloody furious at the NCT. Then they have the cheek to ask for 15.50 then when i ask for previous milage info. This new system doesn't protect us a single bit. A complete joke. Im going to my local TD to see if they can do something about it.

Stheno

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

Exactly. This is why im bloody furious at the NCT. Then they have the cheek to ask for 15.50 then when i ask for previous milage info. This new system doesn't protect us a single bit. A complete joke. Im going to my local TD to see if they can do something about it.

The system in May provided this information so it does seem to protect tbh.

Maybe ask them when they changed?

I specifically remember it as I thought it was weird having two sets of mileage on my cert until I read it.

Atlantic Dawn

There seems to me to be no check at all on the NCT test to check back against clocking, the new rules simply say the mileage from last 3 tests from after July 2014 will be shown on the cert, nothing else so fully up to the owner to question it.

Stheno

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There seems to me to be no check at all on the NCT test to check back against clocking, the new rules simply say the mileage from last 3 tests from after July 2014 will be shown on the cert, nothing else so fully up to the owner to question it.

At least if the owner has the info they can question it.

Could a potentially clocked car that passes the NCT be a safety issue? I don't thinhk it could, hence they don't reference it to pass the test

LasersGoPewPew

Ill try the National Consumer Agency but since it was a private sale i doubt there'll be anything they can do.

Stheno

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

Ill try the National Consumer Agency but since it was a private sale i doubt there'll be anything they can do.

probably not tbh, best to just pay the charge so you can check it.

If seller two ncted before last year you might face multiple 15e charges

I just checked my cert there and it shows this years and last years mileage

LasersGoPewPew

Stheno wrote: »

If seller two ncted before last year you might face multiple 15e charges

Car was NCT'd in 2013 under 1st owner, NCT 2015 was second owner

Atlantic Dawn

Stheno wrote: »

At least if the owner has the info they can question it.

Could a potentially clocked car that passes the NCT be a safety issue? I don't thinhk it could, hence they don't reference it to pass the test

I would say it could be a safety issue from a point of view of timing belt replacement, brake fluid replacement etc not knowing if it's time or not to replace.

Del2005

Stheno wrote: »

But that's the thing, my nct was done in May and lists last years and this years mileage on the cert.

Maybe they changed it the past few months, but in 2014 they recorded mileage of 106k on my car then 119k this year, so I've a clear record

That's only helpful after you've bought the car and seen the NCT cert(s) and they are genuine. What if the car was clocked and a dodgy cert was used to reduce the mileage, the NCT is valid but the cert isn't. I want it opened up to the car history sites and/or have historical data available from the NCT site.

Everyone and their dog knows we have a problem with clocking of cars yet a very simple solution is being ignored for dubious reasons.

dr.fuzzenstein

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

No, they have themselves covered.

What i cant understand though is why the god damn NCT didnt catch this. Surely the odemeter reading is taken and logged. Why cant they implement a system where if the odemeter reading is below previous reading it should sound alarm bells. Should also have a system here to share nct, service info to 3rd parties like cartell or motorcheck.

Yep, that's how we do it in Ireland. Have carchecks that check nothing and the NCT who don't care.
You could bring a Starlet with a 3 liter Supra engine to the NCT and they won't care. They also don't care about mileage or if the owner is a dog with a false mustache. They do their checks according to the list and that's that.
After that the Gards, who might stop you if you're driving at 200 km/h in reverse with the car on fire and your arse hanging out the window, but only if they haven't just bought their breakfast rolls. Unless they have one of their PR sting operations to say they're "doing something", the best you can hope for is "meh".
By the time you get to a solicitor, he is correct in pointing out that due to the above and general apathy to anything in this country, going to court is a complete waste of time and money.
The general attitude is "It's not my job's worth to go after small fry like that", because everyone is too busy cashing their paycheck and planning for the next holiday in Spain. And you can be sure if they buy a shed or a lemon, they will be the ones who scream blue murder the loudest.
Which is precisely the reason why it pays to have a dodgy car dealership and flog cut'n'shuts, doctor mileage, sell sheds that will break down 500 meters down the road, because even if someone finally is bothered to shut them down, they just open from another shed 100 across the road in the name of their brother or their cat.
So someone knocking a few k of a car will rank at number 78347638489 on the list of priorities of anyone. Sadly that means you are stuffed, the principle of enforcement is "too much bother and no butter off my bread".

LasersGoPewPew

Your post was enjoyable but at the same time incredibly infuriating to read because of the truthfulness of it all.

I think I'll harass/annoy my local tds for a few months until they bring forward a better system to the table

166man

2007 525d? An it's the older 2.5 engine? They were never known to give timing chain issues....

I'm confused...

Del2005

166man wrote: »

2007 525d? An it's the older 2.5 engine? They were never known to give timing chain issues....

I'm confused...

Just because a certain car doesn't have a rep for trouble doesn't mean that some of them don't have trouble, for every make which uses a timing change some are bound to cause trouble, it's only when a lot do it that people take notice.