buy calves in march sell in oct

jimini0

Hi all, my cousin has came up with a the idea of buying calves angus or Lim off dairy lads next march. He thinks there is money to be made. He intends on buying them 3 weeks old and bucket rearing them. He is buying one of those milk carts with the teats. He is doing a deal with one of the dairy lads up the road from him to buy milk off him. They will be reared in the field. He will then sell them at 7/8 months. He has very limited funds at the moment but intends to build up his bank in the next 6 months. He has asked to if I would be interested but I think its alot of work and the dairy lad supplying the milk will want top dollar for it. What are your thoughts?

_Brian

I think you'll be selling them just when they are about to thrive. We've reared sucks quite a bit and really they are just getting stable and ready to grow at that age..
You'll have done all the hard work, taken the majority of the risk and then hand them over to someone else to benefit from their growth period.

Striking a deal with a dairy man it essential, but with the recent madness in suck prices its hard to see them not being brought to mart, LMx sucks make top money in the ring..

jimini0

_Brian wrote: »

I think you'll be selling them just when they are about to thrive. We've reared sucks quite a bit and really they are just getting stable and ready to grow at that age..
You'll have done all the hard work, taken the majority of the risk and then hand them over to someone else to benefit from their growth period.

Striking a deal with a dairy man it essential, but with the recent madness in suck prices its hard to see them not being brought to mart, LMx sucks make top money in the ring..

He does not have the sheds to winter them. What prices are suck calves been bought at the moment? I see a few ads on done deal. He will be buying them straight from the yard so the other lads have no transport to mart or anything like that.

Sam Kade

He'll just be a busy fool

blue5000

All I'll say is the first year of an animal's life is the most expensive, but if he goes ahead with it I'd be interested in buying a few.

CloughCasey1

He might get nice lmx for 280 at the lowest. Will cost 120 to rear until novemb er. Will be approx 240kg by then. At very best 2.20per kilo in the mart. And that would be in this years prices. €528 less mart commission, calves that WILL die, that wont thrive due to scour or other ailments, vet fees, vacinations etc etc. So this November it will leave 128 per head not including problems. Last November you could take another 50 off the profit. if ya want to rear sucks you have to keep to 16 mts plus or finish as bulls. Find a warm spot with plenty of bushes and shelter and out winter them Nov 2016 they will be 20mts 580kg plus at approx 2.10 kg €1218 second year is keep grass in front of them and dose them every 8 weeks.

jimini0

I have been reading back try old threads about it. They all use milk replacement powder. The more I read the more hassle it seems to be. I suppose if he could winter them and sell at 12 months it might work out. But he has no shed for them at the moment

jimini0

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

He might get nice lmx for 280 at the lowest. Will cost 120 to rear until novemb er. Will be approx 240kg by then. At very best 2.20per kilo in the mart. And that would be in this years prices. €528 less mart commission, calves that WILL die, that wont thrive due to scour or other ailments, vet fees, vacinations etc etc. So this November it will leave 128 per head not including problems. Last November you could take another 50 off the profit. if ya want to rear sucks you have to keep to 16 mts plus or finish as bulls. Find a warm spot with plenty of bushes and shelter and out winter them Nov 2016 they will be 20mts 580kg plus at approx 2.10 kg €1218 second year is keep grass in front of them and dose them every 8 weeks.

Sounds like an option. How much space in a shed would a 8 month old calf need?. Straw bed no slats.he has one shed that he could possible use but would need to re roof it.

_Brian

jimini0 wrote: »

I have been reading back try old threads about it. They all use milk replacement powder. The more I read the more hassle it seems to be. I suppose if he could winter them and sell at 12 months it might work out. But he has no shed for them at the moment

Feeding the milk replacer isn't the hard part.. if your organised and regimented then you'll feed big numbers in 15 minutes..

You's want to seriously be careful buying AAx sucks, so many will be from the smallest easiest calving AA straw on heifers and the resultant calves are about as beefy as Jex but at two/'three weeks old they're impossible to tell from growthy Angus calves..

Selling them too early will be rearing them to pass them onto another man to make profit on..

In the last two years good LMx calves in the ring have been making €350-450, there is no way a farmer is going to sell any volume of them to you at €280, or your just going to get the runts, bringing them to the mart for ~€100 a head more is well worth the bother for them !!

CloughCasey1

jimini0 wrote: »

Sounds like an option. How much space in a shed would a 8 month old calf need?. Straw bed no slats.he has one shed that he could possible use but would need to re roof it.

1.5 m2 per animal. If shed was onto an acre of ground they would spend most of time out and would go inside at night or poor weather.

Farmer Pudsey

Next year will be a bad year to start, calves will be expensive as like thsi year there will be strong factory prices due to low number of finishing cattle in stream. Paying more than 200 for black calves is a mugs game. You will find it hard to source milk from farmers with quota's gone even at 25c/L it is still more expensive than milkreplaced unless you get milk that is withheld dure to antibiotics and more than likly most farmers have a home for that for there own replacment heifers.


Calves are a tough game believe it or not it is easier at the start as you have no build up in infection however when you get your second or third batch that is when you have problems. Vets bills and medicines can become a huge liability if inexperienced with calves. Your cousin would be better off starting with 8-10 for the first year and feel his way along. It is better to make a profit on 10 than make a loss on thirty.

AA calves are turning into a nightmare too many farmers using the too easy calving bulls these are often not registered for 10-14 days so five weeks lookk like good three week old calves. LMX and HE bulls are heading the same way as dairy farmers are sourcing the easyiest calving bulls that they can.

CloughCasey1

_Brian wrote: »

Feeding the milk replacer isn't the hard part.. if your organised and regimented then you'll feed big numbers in 15 minutes..

You's want to seriously be careful buying AAx sucks, so many will be from the smallest easiest calving AA straw on heifers and the resultant calves are about as beefy as Jex but at two/'three weeks old they're impossible to tell from growthy Angus calves..

Selling them too early will be rearing them to pass them onto another man to make profit on..

In the last two years good LMx calves in the ring have been making €350-450, there is no way a farmer is going to sell any volume of them to you at €280, or your just going to get the runts, bringing them to the mart for ~€100 a head more is well worth the bother for them !!

I got a few nice lmx at that money out of yard this year. They doing well and will make nice stores.

Agree on selling them too early. There is value in buying them reared at 8mts.

I stay away from AAx unless I know what bull and cows they come from. HEx is better option.

jimini0

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

1.5 m2 per animal. If shed was onto an acre of ground they would spend most of time out and would go inside at night or poor weather.

No he does not have any grass around that shed just a yard. I have a shed like that there is close to an acre around it. But he ain't getting use of it.

weatherbyfoxer

All down to your system and costs more than calf breed in my opion, i buy aax and hex heifers and bulls at 4+ weeks old localy for €200... these will be fattened on grass and killed with very little meal during their 3 summer hoping to get €1100 to €1300 per head

jimini0

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Next year will be a bad year to start, calves will be expensive as like thsi year there will be strong factory prices due to low number of finishing cattle in stream. Paying more than 200 for black calves is a mugs game. You will find it hard to source milk from farmers with quota's gone even at 25c/L it is still more expensive than milkreplaced unless you get milk that is withheld dure to antibiotics and more than likly most farmers have a home for that for there own replacment heifers.


Calves are a tough game believe it or not it is easier at the start as you have no build up in infection however when you get your second or third batch that is when you have problems. Vets bills and medicines can become a huge liability if inexperienced with calves. Your cousin would be better off starting with 8-10 for the first year and feel his way along. It is better to make a profit on 10 than make a loss on thirty.

AA calves are turning into a nightmare too many farmers using the too easy calving bulls these are often not registered for 10-14 days so five weeks lookk like good three week old calves. LMX and HE bulls are heading the same way as dairy farmers are sourcing the easyiest calving bulls that they can.

I think he was only thinking of 8 or 10 max anyways. Only a small project. Don't think he would manage much more to be honest he struggles with the few cows he has already

tomieen jones

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

All down to your system and costs more than calf breed in my opion, i buy aax and hex heifers and bulls at 4+ weeks old localy for €200... these will be fattened on grass and killed with very little meal during their 3 summer hoping to get €1100 to €1300 per head

Keeping for two winters leaves small profit? What cost per head over winter? Silage slurry bit of meal?

weatherbyfoxer

tomieen jones wrote: »

Keeping for two winters leaves small profit? What cost per head over winter? Silage slurry bit of meal?

Milk replacer/meal 105
2 winters meal 144
2 winters silage 200
Vet/dose 50
Straw 40
=539+200 (cost of buying calf)= €739

Had it properly done with my adviser a while back...but cant find the sheets.so that a rough cost off the top of my head

Slurry spreading,dung spreading,grazing fertaliser..etc are not included as it be done in any grass system on the farm..sucklers,,stores..etc

Go on tell me im all wrong...ha ha

tomieen jones

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

Milk replacer/meal 105
2 winters meal 144
2 winters silage 200
Vet/dose 50
Straw 40
=539+200 (cost of buying calf)= €739

Had it properly done with my adviser a while back...but cant find the sheets.so that a rough cost off the top of my head

Slurry spreading,dung spreading,grazing fertaliser..etc are not included as it be done in any grass system on the farm..sucklers,,stores..etc

Go on tell me im all wrong...ha ha

slurry/fertiliser surely must be included as a cost of keeping an animal
If not it should be

blue5000

jimini0 wrote: »

Sounds like an option. How much space in a shed would a 8 month old calf need?. Straw bed no slats.he has one shed that he could possible use but would need to re roof it.

Kale and a few bales of silage would keep them cheaply for the winter.

CloughCasey1

blue5000 wrote: »

Kale and a few bales of silage would keep them cheaply for the winter.

How many acres for say 16 with a bale per week to supplement. Would be ideal before a re-seed

_Brian

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

All down to your system and costs more than calf breed in my opion, i buy aax and hex heifers and bulls at 4+ weeks old localy for €200... these will be fattened on grass and killed with very little meal during their 3 summer hoping to get €1100 to €1300 per head

Not a hope if getting hex sucks at that money round here.

Ex farm they are starting at €270 for wee heifers and stronger bull hex calves maybe 4 weeks would cost €300/350

weatherbyfoxer

_Brian wrote: »

Not a hope if getting hex sucks at that money round here.

Ex farm they are starting at €270 for wee heifers and stronger bull hex calves maybe 4 weeks would cost €300/350

At that money you would be better off picking up late spring born weanling.plain r- o+ sub 300kg mark..

farmerjj

Sam Kade wrote: »

He'll just be a busy fool

+1

blue5000

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

How many acres for say 16 with a bale per week to supplement. Would be ideal before a re-seed

3-4 acres, But I think they'd want more than a bale a week, probably one every 5 days. They need it for the fibre.

Base price

We normally rear between 2 and 3 hundred calves a year, mostly FR bulls but some coloured, hex, aax and jex. We would sell off a hundred or so after weaning to local farmers and retain the rest.
This year I reared 80 (52 were FR, 2 AAx, 6 HEx, 2 BBx, 2 LMx, 1 AAx heifer and the rest were FRx or JEx) as calves were too expensive this year. They still are.
Will see what prices for similar weanlings are like in the Autumn.