BMW i3 / VW e-Golf and Fast Charge Netowrk

caster

I'm looking to make the move to electric over the coming months and am currently deciding between the BMW i3 and the VW e-Golf. My concern however, is to how extensive the fast charge network is in Ireland for the above. I assume CCS chargers are the main fast chargers for these cares - is there much of a CCS network on the main motorways ? Also, are some of the AC chargers considered as fast chargers ?

Btw, I had a look at the ESB map but it doesn't seem to give clear indications of the nature of the chargers marked as Fast Chargers, and I gather from reading here that most Fast Chargers are currently Chademo?

Are there any other maps available ?

Thx
C

reboot

caster wrote: »

I'm looking to make the move to electric over the coming months and am currently deciding between the BMW i3 and the VW e-Golf. My concern however, is to how extensive the fast charge network is in Ireland for the above. I assume CCS chargers are the main fast chargers for these cares - is there much of a CCS network on the main motorways ? Also, are some of the AC chargers considered as fast chargers ?

Btw, I had a look at the ESB map but it doesn't seem to give clear indications of the nature of the chargers marked as Fast Chargers, and I gather from reading here that most Fast Chargers are currently Chademo?

Are there any other maps available ?

Thx
C

check out Ecarni.com. 50 new CPs coming on line soon,but I don't think they will suit those EVs?

If you want the German Electrics just remember they're over priced especially the I3, the I3 is about 7,500 more expensive than the highest spec Leaf.

The E-Golf is also over priced and it and the I3 offer no real range benefit over the Leaf or renault Zoe.

Zoe trumps them all when it comes to charging which can make the best use of our charging infrastructure. It's got a 2-44 kw charger built in and can charge in 1 hr 30 mins max from empty or 1 hr to 80% and it can also fast charge in about 30 mins.

The Leaf will be update later this year for 2016 with more ev range than any available EV in Ireland about 100 real miles. Worth hanging on for.

I3 no doubt a good car, faster more gadgets if you're willing to shell out the cash, the Rex version is insanely priced. The E-Golf is just another boring Golf with nothing to benefit from the extra cost.

Then 2017/18 comes a big change in electrics with 150-250 mile range electrics appearing.

caster

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want the German Electrics just remember they're over priced especially the I3, the I3 is about 7,500 more expensive than the highest spec Leaf.

The E-Golf is also over priced and it and the I3 offer no real range benefit over the Leaf or renault Zoe.

Zoe trumps them all when it comes to charging which can make the best use of our charging infrastructure. It's got a 2-44 kw charger built in and can charge in 1 hr 30 mins max from empty or 1 hr to 80% and it can also fast charge in about 30 mins.

The Leaf will be update later this year for 2016 with more ev range than any available EV in Ireland about 100 real miles. Worth hanging on for.

I3 no doubt a good car, faster more gadgets if you're willing to shell out the cash, the Rex version is insanely priced. The E-Golf is just another boring Golf with nothing to benefit from the extra cost.

Then 2017/18 comes a big change in electrics with 150-250 mile range electrics appearing.

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the design of the Leaf, so not so keen on that option. It'll be a big advantage above all others if it does has considerably higher range though. I feel that is the biggest hindrance (rightly or wrongly) to people generally going electric. Personally, my usage would be 90%+ in Dublin, so range is not a biggie for me usage wise - but is a concern re-sale wise - especially if considerably longer ranger batteries are the norm in a few years time, which seems likely.

The i3 appeals mainly because of the Rex, but also hopefully stronger residuals - that badge has that factor. Plus it sounds like its a fantastic car to drive. It is very expensive though and is currently stretching my budget at best.

I agree regarding the Golf - exactly the same design as per the ICE Golf which is not the most exciting looking car in the world IMO. But I do like VW and it is that much more affordable than the BMW.

Interesting regarding the changes in battery technology - it does put a question mark on what the re-sale would be like for anyone who takes the plunge in 2015/2016 - as I said that's a bit of a concern for me.

My thinking is to make a move this year to the e-Golf or i3 and then in 3 years time, go with a Tesla Model 3 - although it may not be easily available in Ireland/UK by then or possibly not even launched yet...

caster

caster wrote: »

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the design of the Leaf, so not so keen on that option. It'll be a big advantage above all others if it does has considerably higher range though. I feel that is the biggest hindrance (rightly or wrongly) to people generally going electric. Personally, my usage would be 90%+ in Dublin, so range is not a biggie for me usage wise - but is a concern re-sale wise - especially if considerably longer ranger batteries are the norm in a few years time, which seems likely.

The i3 appeals mainly because of the Rex, but also hopefully stronger residuals - that badge has that factor. Plus it sounds like its a fantastic car to drive. It is very expensive though and is currently stretching my budget at best.

I agree regarding the Golf - exactly the same design as per the ICE Golf which is not the most exciting looking car in the world IMO. But I do like VW and it is that much more affordable than the BMW.

Interesting regarding the changes in battery technology - it does put a question mark on what the re-sale would be like for anyone who takes the plunge in 2015/2016 - as I said that's a bit of a concern for me.

My thinking is to make a move this year to the e-Golf or i3 and then in 3 years time, go with a Tesla Model 3 - although it may not be easily available in Ireland/UK by then or possibly not even launched yet...

PCP is a good way to buy, it will guarantee the GFV at the end of the contract.

I wouldn't recommend the I3, especially the Rex, just horribly over priced , granted good car and fast but if it had about 30-50 miles range over the Leaf I would say go for it other than that don't waste your money until the long range electrics become available if you don't want a Leaf or Renault Zoe.

The E-Golf is a really poor attempt by VW, more expensive and for what ? the badge ? and has CCS charging like the I3 and not all fast chargers have CCS plugs but all of them have ChaDeMo for the Leaf.

At the end of the day whatever you buy is up to you the I3 would be a lot more fun.

If the Leaf has 20-25 miles more range in 2016 than any other EV apart form the Kia Soul EV which isn't available in Ireland then it's another no brainer to choose the Leaf, it significantly increases it's desirability.

samih

Deleted User wrote: »

PCP is a good way to buy, it will guarantee the GFV at the end of the contract.

OT: This is if you can live with the low mileage (kilometreage?) allocation and don't want to have much, if any, trade in value at the end of the contract making the next PCP more expensive than the current one. Alternatively if you decide to keep the car afterwards you have to pay the GFV.

If you end up driving the ICE due to low km allocation, imo, PCP does not make much sense. In case of Nissan the traditional car loan has the same interest rate than PCP if you are already an AIB customer. You'll end up paying interest on the full loan but at the end of the term you'll actually own the car as opposed to nothing and can use the full remaining price as a trade in for a future car.

caster

Have big doubts about PCP to be honest but I can see it might make sense in this case (i.e. with concerns over re-sale down the line due to newer cars have significantly better range).

I'm not sure if I am imagining this, but did certain gararges/brands offer to buy back the car at a pre-agreed value after say 3 years (subject to a certain mileage and condition) - if of course, you buy with them again ?

I may wait and see what 2016 brings in terms of the Leaf, it looks like there are reasons its the most popular EV. The jump in range will certainly help the re-sale, especially as I plan to move to Tesla a few years down the line. And it does seem that Chademo is for now, the predominant fast charger.

samih

samih wrote: »

OT: This is if you can live with the low mileage (kilometreage?) allocation and don't want to have much, if any, trade in value at the end of the contract making the next PCP more expensive than the current one. Alternatively if you decide to keep the car afterwards you have to pay the GFV.

If you end up driving the ICE due to low km allocation, imo, PCP does not make much sense. In case of Nissan the traditional car loan has the same interest rate than PCP if you are already an AIB customer. You'll end up paying interest on the full loan but at the end of the term you'll actually own the car as opposed to nothing and can use the full remaining price as a trade in for a future car.

25,000 Kms isn't low mileage !

The next PCP won't be expensive because the GFV is usually calculated so that the car is actually worth more, the GFV is the absolute minimum they expect to get for the car in 3 years and xxxx mileage.

PCP is perfect for me, 3 years hop into a brand new Leaf or whatever EV I want then, there'll be more choice !

caster

Deleted User wrote: »

25,000 Kms isn't low mileage !

The next PCP won't be expensive because the GFV is usually calculated so that the car is actually worth more, the GFV is the absolute minimum they expect to get for the car in 3 years and xxxx mileage.

PCP is perfect for me, 3 years hop into a brand new Leaf or whatever EV I want then, there'll be more choice !

I presume you have to have saved up a new deposit in the mean time though ?

Or will the dealer use the difference between the GFV and actual re-sale value? Surely this won't be enough as a deposit ?

caster

caster wrote: »

I presume you have to have saved up a new deposit in the mean time though ?

Or will the dealer use the difference between the GFV and actual re-sale value? Surely this won't be enough as a deposit ?

Often the case is the GFV is valued at rock bottom, the minimum they expect to get and any value over this is yours for a deposit. If for instance you got many less kms this will add to the value , if you got way over then you may not have a deposit out of the GFV. Different dealers will give you different prices so shop around.

caster

Deleted User wrote: »

Often the case is the GFV is valued at rock bottom, the minimum they expect to get and any value over this is yours for a deposit. If for instance you got many less kms this will add to the value , if you got way over then you may not have a deposit out of the GFV. Different dealers will give you different prices so shop around.

OK. I think depreciation of somewhere between 50 and 60% would be typical after 3 years, so I guess GFV should be 40 % or less of price in this case, assuming the car has been looked after and has a low mileage.

Sounds like GFV is the key number when shopping for PCP.

reboot

caster wrote: »

Have big doubts about PCP to be honest but I can see it might make sense in this case (i.e. with concerns over re-sale down the line due to newer cars have significantly better range).

I'm not sure if I am imagining this, but did certain gararges/brands offer to buy back the car at a pre-agreed value after say 3 years (subject to a certain mileage and condition) - if of course, you buy with them again ?

I may wait and see what 2016 brings in terms of the Leaf, it looks like there are reasons its the most popular EV. The jump in range will certainly help the re-sale, especially as I plan to move to Tesla a few years down the line. And it does seem that Chademo is for now, the predominant fast charger.

I have no idea how the Zoe Nav PCP offer will work in your area, but as posted on another thread with Renault UK offering the New Zoe Nav at £10 k off the price over a 2 year period, this will half my monthly payments, give me a brand new, and hopefully improved great EV. Into my third year of driving the Zoe I can honestly say range anxiety is not something that has ever concerned me.
May be worth a separate thread, but some people do not get it, that driving an EV can and should change the way you think about driving. It may make you feel you can afford to drive slower, and actually charge as you drive.
If people think they can jump out of an Ice car into an EV and expect it to be as fast, go as far,and look as good as an I8, they should think again, and maybe not bother.

Well I haven't changed my driving because I drive a Leaf, in fact I drive harder and faster most of the time than I did in the prius and now that the work charge point is coming, I don't have to care about efficiency what so ever !

The Leaf has brought some fun back to my driving compared to always watching the mpg counter in an ICE because of the cost of fuel.

caster

reboot wrote: »

I have no idea how the Zoe Nav PCP offer will work in your area, but as posted on another thread with Renault UK offering the New Zoe Nav at £10 k off the price over a 2 year period, this will half my monthly payments, give me a brand new, and hopefully improved great EV. Into my third year of driving the Zoe I can honestly say range anxiety is not something that has ever concerned me.
May be worth a separate thread, but some people do not get it, that driving an EV can and should change the way you think about driving. It may make you feel you can afford to drive slower, and actually charge as you drive.
If people think they can jump out of an Ice car into an EV and expect it to be as fast, go as far,and look as good as an I8, they should think again, and maybe not bother.

I completely agree regarding Range - not an issue whatsoever for me as Know that 95% of my driving is in Dublin and within range. Fast charging network is there (even if a little limited as of now for CCS) if I need to go further.

My concern is that other's may not see it the same way when it comes to selling the car on in a few years (where most likely 200km+ is the norm).

PCP really seems the only way to go for this reason...

samih

Deleted User wrote: »

25,000 Kms isn't low mileage !

Some people here have had to use ICE for longer trips so for some it is not enough.

caster

caster wrote: »

I completely agree regarding Range - not an issue whatsoever for me as Know that 95% of my driving is in Dublin and within range. Fast charging network is there (even if a little limited as of now for CCS) if I need to go further.

My concern is that other's may not see it the same way when it comes to selling the car on in a few years (where most likely 200km+ is the norm).

PCP really seems the only way to go for this reason...

You're concern that "others may not see it the same way" is very valid. By now we realise that most people want more than 80 odd miles range and to be fair, I do too.

While 80miles may not be an issue for you and mostly for me, it is an issue for most people. 200 miles is a good maximum I think most people could live with. after that you're getting silly. But charging needs to get a lot faster.

samih

samih wrote: »

Some people here have had to use ICE for longer trips so for some it is not enough.

Yeah I'm one of them but that's mainly because my partner won't charge on route, and refuses to entertain the idea, and to be honest she isn't alone, And she certainly doesn't want the risk of queuing. this is the way the majority of people think.

But how much range is getting to the point it's being ridiculous ? Huge waste of resources if you need say 30 Kwh max for instance for my commute and you got 50-60 Kwh spare every single day ? that's madness. 200 miles is plenty if you can charge 10 mins or less.