Anthony Joshua

Talib Fiasco

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Joshua v Wach in Sept, big step up

Indeed...I'd be impressed if he knocks Wach out/down as Wach has an incredible chin.

sxt

Id be shocked if it went by six rounds

Wach took a hell of a beating by vlad and vlad was visibly gunning for a knockout after the death of steward a few months earlier.

Wach was banned for a year after that fight for steroid use. Didn't fight till 2 years later and has fought against unimpressive journey men since


He won't be physically or mentally the same fighter again. He will quit if he is taking similar type of punishment whether it be the 3rd 4th or 6th round.THat is a guarantee. Unless of course he exposes Joshua as an inexperienced over confident hype job which is also possible but less likely

davegrohl48

What are peoples thoughts on Anthony Joshua? I firmly believe he'd comfortably beat all other heavyweights.
- Has superb strength and physique
- Good defensive boxing skills
- Excellent left jab, the best jab of any heavyweight in my view
- fights with patience
- can match the bigger heavyweights
- of big fighters he has the best foot and handspeed
- has finishing and ko power much superior to other top

Mantis Toboggan

Slow down there Dave, how can you possibly say that he has the best defensive skills? What's fights did he show that?

davegrohl48

I am certain as I can be in a sporting contest that Joshua will win this fight comfortably by ko or stoppage. There hasn't been a finer heavyweight since the prime of Lennox Lewis. I'v looked at all his fights so far against the admittedly limited opposition. But he has the skills from his amateur career to hit and not get hit combined with the best physique in heavyweight boxing.
This is the best athlete in heavyweight boxing, I'm mainly looking in terms of athleticism at his snappy left jab, his quick feet, his knockout power and his ability for a big man to throw accurate combinations with power.
There is no other heavyweight who covers all those bases.

Talib Fiasco

davegrohl48 wrote: »

I am certain as I can be in a sporting contest that Joshua will win this fight comfortably by ko or stoppage. There hasn't been a finer heavyweight since the prime of Lennox Lewis. I'v looked at all his fights so far against the admittedly limited opposition. But he has the skills from his amateur career to hit and not get hit combined with the best physique in heavyweight boxing.
This is the best athlete in heavyweight boxing, I'm mainly looking in terms of athleticism at his snappy left jab, his quick feet, his knockout power and his ability for a big man to throw accurate combinations with power.
There is no other heavyweight who covers all those bases.

Um Wlad.

davegrohl48

Um Wlad, was thinking someone might say something like that.
Joshua is stronger and faster than Wlad and is an Olympic champion. Last time I checked Olympic champions are all quality boxers. Wlad is an Olympic champion also. But the huge differentiator is that Joshuas combination punches have the speed of a light heavyweight. Iv never seen such handspeed in a big heavyweight. Joshuas jab is also stronger than Wlads. Sometimes if the boxer has the amateur skills and the athleticism and power you can make best in the world early career calls. Joshua can beat Wlad right now.

davegrohl48

He's an Olympic champion and has good footspeed and reflexes. With his reach he will keep smaller heavyweights at bay. Larger heavyweights he is quicker than all out there so I only see jabs landing. I dont see a Tyson Fury or Wlad landing power shots on Anthony Joshua. He's too quick on his feet and they by comparison dont have the hand n foot speed to suprise him. So I think of all heavyweights out there he's not goin to get hit by combinations or by power shots. You wont keep Joshua at bay with a jab.

Talib Fiasco

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Um Wlad, was thinking someone might say something like that.
Joshua is stronger and faster than Wlad and is an Olympic champion. Last time I checked Olympic champions are all quality boxers. Wlad is an Olympic champion also. But the huge differentiator is that Joshuas combination punches have the speed of a light heavyweight. Iv never seen such handspeed in a big heavyweight. Joshuas jab is also stronger than Wlads. Sometimes if the boxer has the amateur skills and the athleticism and power you can make best in the world early career calls. Joshua can beat Wlad right now.

Stronger, highly disputable...Just because he's built like a bodybuilder doesn't mean he has phenomenal strength. Tbh Joshua was gifted the Olympic medal and anyone who actually watched it can tell you that. Joshua isn't even that fast...I think you're confusing combination punches with just throwing aimlessly after an opponent is being stunned. Big difference.

The jab claim is laughable, Wlad has probably the best jab in Boxing. If they fought now Wlad would likely KO him as Joshua is too raw and hasn't worked on his defence yet. His chin is also very questionable with history of being KO'd in the amateurs and even in sparring.

Joshua is talented and has a big future but let's put the pants back on and relax for a second.

davegrohl48

I guess in the position he is in he has to probably force himself to stay humble. Everyone wants a piece of him, he's touted in every media outlet as the next big thing. Personality does seem scripted sometimes, but he does seem obsessed with improving in all the details of boxing n training.
The reflexes I reference are as follows:
1. In just 4 years training in the sport won the Olympic gold medal in the amateur style of hit n dont get hit. Now he got hit plenty n just about won but clearly relied on massive natural advantages in the speed of his movement. Clearly needed work on ability to read opponents in the ring and to rely less on natural advantages.
2. He is now through training and his natural proportions the perfect build of a heavyweight. All his muscle is in his legs and shoulders upper back. He is not overly wide in the shoulders or torso and yet weighs in at 17 stone. He is not overly long in the arms compared to Wlad or Fury or a Lennox Lewis. So physically he has the ability to throw quick combination punches.
3. His coach has him working in detail on head movement which is improving and blocking punches while staying within range.

Just a little Samba

I think it's far too early to be making that sort of call. He's only the top ten of 1 of the major organisations, he hasn't fought anyone in the top tier yet either.

His power is scary and people will probably duck him as they have nothing to gain by fighting him just yet and potentially a lot to loose but right now he's nowhere near the Wilders, Furys and Klitchkos of the division until he earns it.

I actually think if he fought Wilder now, he'd lose.

boxer.fan

Joshua is a prospect for now. Nothing more. He hasn't been hit yet, and that's not because he is a defensive genius. He will beat most heavyweights on the scene, but sooner or later someone will put it up to him & not back away from his pressure, how he reacts will determine his ability. For what it's worth, I think Cammarelle beat him in the Olympic final, if it had been anywhere else the Italian would have got the decision.

Talib Fiasco

boxer.fan wrote: »

Joshua is a prospect for now. Nothing more. He hasn't been hit yet, and that's not because he is a defensive genius. He will beat most heavyweights on the scene, but sooner or later someone will put it up to him & not back away from his pressure, how he reacts will determine his ability. For what it's worth, I think Cammarelle beat him in the Olympic final, if it had been anywhere else the Italian would have got the decision.

Joshua lost in the first round too against the Cuban...and lost clearly. The Cammarelle fight was closer, but again I felt he lost that too, but the fight with Savon was a complete robbery.

qwabercd

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Um Wlad, was thinking someone might say something like that.
Joshua is stronger and faster than Wlad and is an Olympic champion. Last time I checked Olympic champions are all quality boxers. Wlad is an Olympic champion also. But the huge differentiator is that Joshuas combination punches have the speed of a light heavyweight. Iv never seen such handspeed in a big heavyweight. Joshuas jab is also stronger than Wlads. Sometimes if the boxer has the amateur skills and the athleticism and power you can make best in the world early career calls. Joshua can beat Wlad right now.

Audley Harrison was a world class pro alright.

Talib Fiasco

So the fight with Wach is off, and he's supposedly fighting Gary Cornish now. Sky and Hearn will love selling that one, fighting an unbeaten guy :rolleyes:

davegrohl48

Wasnt it Anthony Joshua who won superstars running 100 in mid 11s if I recall and 800 in 2:14. Think those were close to it.
His explosiveness and handspeed is evident in his fights to date.
As to his Olympic record he was boxing only four years from literally first training session. His fights were close and he got hit plenty. But four years in the sport. Joshua is the most athletic n powerful heavyweight right now. However lets just watch as he demolishes Wach.

davegrohl48

This is the crazy thing with boxing. Its like you have to almost win a title before touted as being a contender.
- Olympic champion
- Ran 11.53 100m on a wet track
- Clearly without a shadow of any doubt quicker and more explosive than Wlad or Fury or any other top heavyweights
- Good jab power, hand speed and combination speed displayed in his pro fights.
He would beat Wilder easily in my opinion. Wlad gets an easy press. He fouled Povedkin non-stop in their fight. Wlad should have been chasing a points deficit for holding and leaning and pushing over the ropes. Wlads power is not evidenced at all in his fights which quite often go to points decisions against smaller opponents.

Talib Fiasco

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Wasnt it Anthony Joshua who won superstars running 100 in mid 11s if I recall and 800 in 2:14. Think those were close to it.
His explosiveness and handspeed is evident in his fights to date.
As to his Olympic record he was boxing only four years from literally first training session. His fights were close and he got hit plenty. But four years in the sport. Joshua is the most athletic n powerful heavyweight right now. However lets just watch as he demolishes Wach.

What has his sprinting speed got to do with Boxing? Literally nothing. If Usain Bolt suddenly became a boxer, his raw sprinting speed wouldn't help. Now sprinting is valuable to build stronger legs etc., but all HW's shift massive weight in the gym anyway so sprinting isn't much use if any...again, Joshua's sprint times are irrelevant. Explosiveness, yeah okay he has some explosiveness, albeit against absolute tin cans...but that's big change from your claim earlier that his combinations are that of those of a Light Heavyweight.

Again a bit of a cop out from your earlier claim too that he doesn't and won't get hit by top Heavyweights. Be honest, did you actually watch his Olympic fights? I haven't come across a credible source (aka actually watches Boxing and is not British) who said Joshua deserved that gold medal. Sure he's athletic, but he's building himself for the wrong sport...Wlad Klit has the optimum physique for HW Boxing, Joshua's is more suited to Bodybuilding, there is too much size there which I have no doubts, will affect his stamina once he stops fighting punching bags and gets taken past middle rounds.

Oh yeah and the fight with Wach is off. Hearn and Joshua have opted to fight a another British guy instead...complete backwards move.

davegrohl48 wrote: »

This is the crazy thing with boxing. Its like you have to almost win a title before touted as being a contender.
- Olympic champion
- Ran 11.53 100m on a wet track
- Clearly without a shadow of any doubt quicker and more explosive than Wlad or Fury or any other top heavyweights
- Good jab power, hand speed and combination speed displayed in his pro fights.
He would beat Wilder easily in my opinion. Wlad gets an easy press. He fouled Povedkin non-stop in their fight. Wlad should have been chasing a points deficit for holding and leaning and pushing over the ropes. Wlads power is not evidenced at all in his fights which quite often go to points decisions against smaller opponents.

Nope, nobody has doubted Joshua as a contender. We all however doubt your claim he's the best HW out there right now and KO's every one of them. Again read my previous points about his legitimacy as Olympic champ and his sprinting speed...your argument is highly flawed. I do not know where this quicker hand speed thing is coming from? To me he actually appears sluggish with his hands, something I think his sheer amount of muscle mass is affecting. He needs to get a proper strength and conditioning coach and develop a proper physique for Boxing.

"Good jab"?. Big change from saying he has a better jab than Wlad Klitschko.

Wilder would probably KO Joshua within a round or 2 if they fought as Joshua's chin appears to be shaky. Joshua has a puncher's chance though. Wilder's boxing skills are also a lot better than Joshua's, something he doesn't get credit for enough.

I agree on the Klitschko-Povetkin fight, it was a joke.

Your last point is just lol. Wlad has tremendous power. In his 64 wins, he has won by KO in 53 of them, a truly staggering KO ration considering how many fights he has fought. Quit fooling.

megadodge

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Wilder would probably KO Joshua within a round or 2 if they fought as Joshua's chin appears to be shaky. Joshua has a puncher's chance though.
.

Not disagreeing with your post in general, but what exactly are you basing the "shaky chin" theory on?

Wilder's boxing skills are also a lot better than Joshua's, something he doesn't get credit for enough.

I would strongly disagree. Wilder is very, very athletic, but skilful he ain't. He showed a good, fast, hard jab against Stiverne and as far as skill goes, that's really about it. I've seen him often enough and for a world class fighter his wildness and lack of composure is shocking.

Talib Fiasco

megadodge wrote: »

Not disagreeing with your post in general, but what exactly are you basing the "shaky chin" theory on?

I would strongly disagree. Wilder is very, very athletic, but skilful he ain't. He showed a good, fast, hard jab against Stiverne and as far as skill goes, that's really about it. I've seen him often enough and for a world class fighter his wildness and lack of composure is shocking.

Well apparently he got KO'd badly in sparring with David Price (who I know is a big hitter himself, but still, you would presume Joshua was wearing all the protection possible). Also was dropped by Dillian Whyte in the AM's and *I think* by another guy too...must try and find that one.

Wilder is limited, but I quite like his punch choice at times, sure he is prone to just throw wildly when he smells blood and he seems to have engrained in him to look for the KO and nothing else, but when he settles down he can put his punches together. He is pretty damn accurate too when he boxes smart. His jab, as you say is ever improving. He's also a very fast guy for his size... I think in terms of skills, he's not a Erislandy Lara by any means but I think he has good boxing skills, and he is improving in that regard as he goes on. To be fair we haven't seen enough of Joshua really to determine what shape he is in really, but I really haven't been impressed by much or anything by him

davegrohl48

In earlier post I referenced that he just about won the Olympic gold medal but it was an incredible achievement considering 4 years in the sport. I think that is unarguable unless you are going to claim being highly competitive at Olympic level is no big deal after just 4 years training.
I also referenced in earlier post that he got hit plenty, not suprising seeing as he was only in the sport 4 years.
There is no debate about his power and athleticism. The reason I referenced his 100m time is that it shows how functionally built he is. No one built like a bodybuilder could run an 11.53 with no sprint training on a wet track.
There is no reason to reference Usain Bolt or somehow infer that Joshua is sprint training for boxing. Clearly it was a once off test of his speed.
A 17 stone guy running 2 min 26 sec puts paid to your theory that he is going to gas out after the middle rounds. Don't even think you can reference the world record of 1 min 40 seconds as some benchmark. He was only 22 seconds slower than the Brownlees who took silver and gold in the Olympic triathlon. And yes there is a linear correlation to ability to run the 800 m and it indicating decent stamina for boxing. I expect the usual (you don't get hit running the 800m) this is simple sports science, the tests of his speed, power and endurance indicate there are zero doubts about his athleticism.
In regards to his jab it has got power on it. I called it a good jab as it's not as if he has displayed jabs to the body. But in terms of power it's excellent.
Wlad by comparison carries his left hand half-way extended to block punches and get in quick to annoy fighters when they come forward. But he wasn't able to keep Povetkin out with it. He was heavily reliant on holding.
It's why I think if he fights Wlad or Fury they won't be able to use their holding tactics as Joshua has good hooking power with his left to the body. Also he can throw the strong overhand right and make it land he isn't giving up some huge height and reach advantage.
Furthermore he is on a par with Wlad in terms of preparations as he would have been on a program from the British Olympic team. I know that Wlad had a degree in sports science also but Wlads preparations are not being put on the same level of natural athlete. The base natural athlete is important.
Tyson Fury by comparison has displayed no ability to get himself in the shape required, often being well out of stamina after five rounds. Sometimes even carrying weight into fights.

megadodge

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Well apparently he got KO'd badly in sparring with David Price (who I know is a big hitter himself, but still, you would presume Joshua was wearing all the protection possible). Also was dropped by Dillian Whyte in the AM's and *I think* by another guy too...must try and find that one.

I've never heard of Price KOing him. Not saying it didn't happen, but forums are exactly the sort of places that would be all over something like that, so I'm doubting it actually happened.

The Dillian White bout is a classic novice amateur heavyweight bout, with two big lads flailing away with not a lot of skill on display. The knockdown was purely balance (as you'd expect from a 19 year old novice) and he very obviously wasn't hurt. It's on Youtube, so you can check. The difference in balance and defense between then and now is enormous.

What makes me think he acually has a good chin is his World Championship final v Medzhidov, who is without doubt the hardest puncher in amateur boxing. Joshua took some terrific punches in that bout and even when rattled, he immediately came storming back, showing both heart and chin.

I know anything can happen with the heavies, but I don't think there's any sort of frailty about Joshua. What I'd be more worried about is stamina. Others have mentioned it and I agree, that in longer bouts is there a chance his muscular frame will come against him? Only time will tell.

walshb

Joshua's chin may well be shaky, but I'll wait and see before saying it is based off a story of getting knocked out "badly" in sparring. As to his knock down in the amateurs. Big deal. Even the sturdiest chins can still see fighters dropped. I have watched a fair deal of Joshua, and for me the chin looks good. Took some real wallops in some of his amateur bouts and stayed on his feet.

menoscemo

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

So the fight with Wach is off, and he's supposedly fighting Gary Cornish now. Sky and Hearn will love selling that one, fighting an unbeaten guy :rolleyes:

Seems that a deal is agreed to fight Dillan Whyte for the British title after the Cornish fight.

Mantis Toboggan

menoscemo wrote: »

Seems that a deal is agreed to fight Dillan Whyte for the British title after the Cornish fight.

Just watched the first fight with Whyte.

Whyte isn't great but Joshua doesn't look half as impressive when someone starts throwing at him and he has to take a few steps back.

How long ago was the original fight?

davegrohl48

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Just watched the first fight with Whyte.

Whyte isn't great but Joshua doesn't look half as impressive when someone starts throwing at him and he has to take a few steps back.

How long ago was the original fight?

That fight was in 2009. He had first picked up gloves in a training gym in 2007.
However by 2011 he came second in the worlds.
By 2012 competitive at Olympic level, maybe was lucky to win the gold but it wasn't anything like a Kenny Egan style robbery in Beijing. Anyways takes more than luck to get all the way to the final and win.

kleefarr

Boxng post...

round 9 knockout pulev loses

One of the most devastating weapons in sport. Right up through the Puelv defences and the Bulgarian, tough as he might be, had no
answer. He got up, but Joshua just strode up to him and laid him out with one mighty right hand.

Joshua has more class. He's able to keep Pulev at arm's length. And now he's drilling him with some stinging jabs and following them
up as well. AJ lands one, two, three savage uppercuts. Pulev smiles. This guy is as tough as old boots. And now another - another
horrible uppercut downs Pulev . He needs the count. He gets up. Anthony Joshua fells him with one punch. Pulev is on his knees, he
is not getting up -